The Problem With Categories...

László

Too Many Notes
Joined
Apr 26, 2012
Messages
34,507
Location
Michigan
We are all victims of the tendency to categorize things.

Are you a metal player? That category might make me never care to listen to your music, but on the other hand, maybe it's great and I'd love it! I can at the very least recognize greatness, even if I'm not supposedly into the genre.

Do you create orchestral or film music? I'd probably overreact in the direction of loving it, but maybe I shouldn't. Maybe the best thing to be would be 'take it with a grain of salt - not everyone needs to be John Williams?

Blues? Well, is it really necessary for everyone to mimic Albert King? Or Bonamassa, Clapton and Stevie Ray?

You see where I'm taking this. Categories can be very limiting filters that prevent us from using our ears to decide what we want to listen to. Maybe it's better to have fewer categories and more openness.

In the bad old days of AM radio, there were stations that played a little of everything: Rock, Motown, Metal, Jazzier stuff. Maybe that wasn't such a bad thing.

Then again, what are your thoughts?
 
Last edited:
Sure, labels can be limiting to one's understanding of the world and every environment in it. And, I know that being open minded to new ideas can be a good thing. But, I admit there are genres of music that I just don't like and sorry, but I just can't see myself making any effort to do otherwise. Like thrash metal with screaming vocals and scooped mids guitars at eleven. And rap. Can't stand either one and won't listen to either. That said, I have absolutely no problem if someone else digs either of those types. Each to their own. :)
 
I hate all categories in music and almost everywhere else! It can be valuable in some cases, but I believe it does more harm than good most of the time!! I have released music in Funk, Jawaiian, Folk and Rock and have written stuff in several other genres. I have had different artists for each genre release and never want to be linked to any of it because of the categorization element. Look at what happened when Garth Brooks put out his rock/pop album (oh, he's a country music guy, he can't make a pop album)! Look at what happened when Bob Dylan went from Folk to Rock (booo, you've abandoned your ideals, sell out, you'll never make it as a rock star)! It's crazy stuff but ingrained into peoples minds and influences what sells, and to whom it will be marketed. Although I know at my ripe old age (my fault) and limited talent (mine and parents fault), I will never do what those artists did, I also do not want to ever be put into a category other than "musician" and no matter how you try to fight it, it will happen!
 
I hate all categories in music and almost everywhere else! It can be valuable in some cases, but I believe it does more harm than good most of the time!! I have released music in Funk, Jawaiian, Folk and Rock and have written stuff in several other genres. I have had different artists for each genre release and never want to be linked to any of it because of the categorization element. Look at what happened when Garth Brooks put out his rock/pop album (oh, he's a country music guy, he can't make a pop album)! Look at what happened when Bob Dylan went from Folk to Rock (booo, you've abandoned your ideals, sell out, you'll never make it as a rock star)! It's crazy stuff but ingrained into peoples minds and influences what sells, and to whom it will be marketed. Although I know at my ripe old age (my fault) and limited talent (mine and parents fault), I will never do what those artists did, I also do not want to ever be put into a category other than "musician" and no matter how you try to fight it, it will happen!
jawaiian like from out of star wars?
 
Music categories have always really bugged me. Great topic Les……
One of my original bands back through the 90’s was very successful. IF I had to inaccurately categorize it I’d say it was a cross between old ZZ Top, The Black Crowes, Cry of Love and the Allman Bros, but still different and original, not a copy of anything …..just for your own reference,……..see, I did it as well…. Jeez…At any rate………
One of the younger guys that wrote new music reviews in one of the local music rags wrote that we sounded like Foghat. really? Not on the same planet….
Another younger guy from another mag wrote that it was just a blues band…. There wasn’t a 1, 4 5 song in our entire catalog…..yes it was Bluesrock, …..but just a blues band? Singing guitars into old Marshalls, my PRS McCarty and old Les Paul for leads .and a crunchy old Tele sound and the McCarty for early break up rhythm tones….
All the Blues players in the New England scene then were all about Strats into Super Reverbs very clean with lots of treble (yikes), like what Ronnie Earl does….or trying to be like Stevie Ray……..that ain’t me.. never has been…always humbuckers…always some crunch or overdrive…and I go way beyond the minor pentatonic box in my lead playing…
At any rate, the only writer that ever got it right was A J Wactel, (Waddy’s brother) out of Boston, but he was our age , and he got it…He wrote for The Beat music magazine out of Boston published every 2 weeks… it was a great review and on the $$…
So Les, yes categories are so limited and really, how do you accurately describe music with words? Pretty hard to do. They are two completely different ways of communication…..
Here’s the 1 time our music was never categorized…
It was a call that i got at my music store. It was Musician Magazine and they asked for the Lead guitarist of the Bishop-Welles Band.. I said, well, you’re talkin to him. We’d sent them a CD and they loved it and had started to write a review for their popular magazine at the time and the caller/reviewer seemed very nice and charming…He went on to ask, (presumably a guitarist) how we got such a great guitar sound, what rack gear we used, how many speaker cabs were used at one time when recorded , what models of Neumann mics we used, what digital recorder we used, did Bob Ludwig master it, must of cost you guys a fortune, ect ect.
and I said…whoa, hold on. I told him Mark, the other guitarist and I just used our old Marshal JMP master volume heads on 6 (cause they sound big and fat on 6) through our old 4/12 Marshall strait front cabs loaded with old Greenbacks. No pedals used……Shute SM58 on the front, SM57 pointed down at a back corner of the closed back cab for more low mids and 1 AKG room mic…Analog English board into a 16 track Fostex reel to reel Tape machine…used tube rack compression a bit and had a very talented local musical engineer/producer and we recorded it in a finished basement locally.. We mastered it ourselves. I was very explicit , trying to help him out if that’s the kind of guitar tone he was looking for…..(they did sound great on tape..same tones as we got live)
He immediately became iirate and started swearing at me saying no F….n way, had to be digital with some unobtainable secret rack gear…, on and on and I told him I was being totally honest with him and that it was an all analog recording….(many Boston musicians were very competitive) and one of many reasons why I moved to Portsmouth NH back in the late 70’s….. I finally just had to hang up on him after he went all crazy on me Screaming and calling me a liar not telling me the real secrets to that sound! Yikes… Well…that didn’t go well….
Needless to say, they never reviewed our CD (that to this day still sounds quite good)….. But for once in my life, my music never got categorized :):):) cause the review was never published and most likely ended up in the trash….
I’ve rambled enough….. thanks for listening….
 
Last edited:
I too am not a big fan of categories, while I’ll readily admit that I understand their value. I think it is human nature to compartmentalize things, to try and make things fit into the mental file folders that help us make sense of the world. Unfortunately, with music in particular but by no means exclusively, this is promoted by “the industry” and fosters the sense of separation. My music collection is quite diverse, and as much as I would like to point this as an example of my open-mindedness, I‘m not likely to go out and stream the latest Death metal “hit” or pop-country anthem. I will, however, check either out with an open mind if directed to me by someone whose musical opinion I respect. And regardless of label, I will continue to listen if I find something to enjoy in it.

One of the reasons I appreciate bands like the Grateful Dead and Phish as much as I do is their overt willingness to incorporate any musical inspiration into their music, regardless of genre. And these bands end up being great examples of what we’re talking about. Many people dismiss them without ever listening, because they’ve bought into a stereotype perpetuated by the media. But I can’t tell you how many times I’ve had the music of one of them playing and had people who are not fans say “who is this? This is great!”, only to respond with “wow, that’s not what I thought they sounded like” when the artist is revealed. Spend 5 minutes talking music with me and I’ll put on something for either that you’d enjoy.

The broad category of jazz is another great example. Many jazz aficionados will pigeon hole themselves into very tight lines, categorically, and dismiss what falls outside those lines. But isn’t the very nature of the genre based on taking traditional rhythm and melody and turning it on its head?

I’m not totally sure what the resolution to this post is, other than to say that if you wander around with sonic blinders on, you miss a lot of great music.

$0.02
 
you just want them to give out the one grammy for best at everything? will eddie murphy host?
I’m ok with multiple awards: best song, best album. I don’t even mind boy girl differentiation. Heck, even group versus solo and instrumental versus vocal are fine.

It the awards for best scratching of a record by a polish priestess with a lost kitten that don’t work for me.
 
I get the tendency, or even need, to categorize - but it has rarely been an indicator of how much I’ll like something. It’s more the quality, and relatability, that speaks to me.

Even a style that I would say “dislike” to if you asked me to generalize, often has great artists or bands in it that I like. For example, I dislike most country music, especially the newest generation, but I quite like Brad Paisley, because I think he makes great music, period. Same with Andy Timmons and instrumental guitar music - much of it bores me, but I like AT, and to further his example, he said in an interview once “you have to give people something to hang their hat on.” He does it well.

Some streaming services will make genre based recommendations, and that rarely works for me.
 
I’m ok with multiple awards: best song, best album. I don’t even mind boy girl differentiation. Heck, even group versus solo and instrumental versus vocal are fine.

It the awards for best scratching of a record by a polish priestess with a lost kitten that don’t work for me.
ah, the ‘technical best new international artist’. my lack of interest is because they always pick the wrong one. and they should give more awards for detroit house.
 
Back
Top