The "Official Silver Sky" Thread

[rmg471]

Without knowing the exact alloy material spec, it’s hard to know what we’re even talking about when comparing different manufacturer guitar frets.

“Stainless steel” is an entire class of alloys that breach a certain % amount of chromium/nickel content, and while in general the higher the chromium/nickel content the more superior is the stainless steel, that superiority has more to do with corrosion resistance than hardness. Unless we’re permanently gigging in Atlantis, I don’t think corrosion figures much except for aesthetics.

It’s the hardness that matters here.

Below the stainless steel class in terms of chromium content, there’s a continuum of alloy grades that can actually be harder than official stainless steel. The hardness of the metal actually increases when the chromium drops to a certain low level.

So when we talk stainless steel frets vs alloy frets, we may not even know what we’re talking about, unless we know the exact metal spec.

Factual posts with well-formed thoughts and ideas have no place in this thread. Take your fancy metallurgy somewhere else, pal! Stainless or it’s garbage!

</sarcasm>

@Tonart thank you for sharing your expertise. I suspected that just because PRS doesn’t advertise stainless steel frets doesn’t mean that they are the same material as a bargain basement guitars’ frets.

 

[Tonart]

I specified for stainless steel frets on a recent private stock build, but only because I don’t like yellowing frets and like them permanently shiny. How many people would have my tastes? Very few I reckon.

I suspect SS frets could have started as a branding ploy by brands to gain an edge. But if it was found to be superior by players, it’s probably because it was compared with really soft fret material used by yet other brands. Of course it’s better, in those cases.

But unless we know the exact alloys being used in a direct Brand A vs Brand B brand, we can’t generalize SS is supreme over everything else. Brand B could have titanium frets.

 

[Tonart]

Factual posts with well-formed thoughts and ideas have no place in this thread. Take your fancy metallurgy somewhere else, pal! Stainless or it’s garbage!

</sarcasm>

@Tonart thank you for sharing your expertise. I suspected that just because PRS doesn’t advertise stainless steel frets doesn’t mean that they are the same material as a bargain basement guitar’s frets.

I’ve no expertise, Brother. Merely reading off the internet metallurgy tomes...

 

[Bluesverb]

A Rockwell hardness would be of some value. The coefficient of friction would help.

However, how many guitarists would know what those numbers meant? Or would even care?

Its kind of like DC resistance with pickups. A high reading of 16k doesn't mean it is high output. or sounds good.
But people take it as a starting point.

BTW - what does Low Sodium mean in food mean anyway? What does reduced sugar really mean? Low for whom? Reduced for whom or why?

I laugh when manufacturers take out something and sell it as a positive, like the food industry.
Especially when food commercials advertise that they are eliminating artificial whatever, or "now with reduced sugar and no salt added".
If they take something out, like salt or sugar, it costs less to make and their gross margins go up. Then, they let you know in a way that it will benefit you!!!!

 

[Tonart]

A Rockwell hardness would be of some value. The coefficient of friction would help.

However, how many guitarists would know what those numbers meant? Or would even care?

Its kind of like DC resistance with pickups. A high reading of 16k doesn't mean it is high output. or sounds good.
But people take it as a starting point.

BTW - what does Low Sodium mean in food mean anyway? What does reduced sugar really mean? Low for whom? Reduced for whom or why?

I laugh when manufacturers take out something and sell it as a positive, like the food industry.
Especially when food commercials advertise that they are eliminating artificial whatever, or "now with reduced sugar and no salt added".
If they take something out, like salt or sugar, it costs less to make and their gross margins go up. Then, they let you know in a way that it will benefit you!!!!

Exactly. A large part of it is very meaningful and beneficial, but some portions of it also become meaningless soundbites, emblems.

 

[Boogie]

So, who’s played one of these bad boys...besides a Bryan Ewald?

 

[BWV548]

I always like it when folks are open-minded about various possibilities. An open mind learns new things, and having that “new information” light bulb go off seems to me to feel pretty good!

“But Les, you’re a die-hard tube amp guy, and die-hard about other stuff, too.”

Yeah. No one ever called me especially consistent.

Indeed. All or nothing thinking is usually considered a cognitive distortion. Generally, such thinking, and the actions that follow, are deleterious in someway. Generally.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

So, who’s played one of these bad boys...besides a Bryan Ewald?

Uh.... so far.... that other video dude, and JM. And MAYBE PRSh. And NOBODY else. Except the secret squirrel...

So far, that is.

 

[presence]

Lots of hand wringing and nail biting about this guitar. Lots of armchair psychology and "deep thoughts" too.

My analysis: it's just a guitar, it sounds good and it looks cool!

 

[Grapeshot]

The Finish: The body of the Silver Sky gets the exact same finish you would find on an Artist Package Custom 24 or McCarty 594. Several years ago we moved on from the "V12" finish to a new formula.

Hiya, Shawn! How many years is "several"? Does my '14 CU24 have V12 or the new formula?

 

[Drew]

So when we talk stainless steel frets vs alloy frets, we may not even know what we’re talking about, unless we know the exact metal spec.

EXCEPT, we do know the basic general properties of the materials involved. Maybe not exact alloy ratios and manufacturing processes, but more than enough to work on. Steel and metals is my living, so I MAY have a tiny amount of knowledge on this.

Standard fret material is a copper based alloy. The copper content of the alloy is why your frets will turn green over time if you don't maintain the guitar properly or it its in a very damp environment. Hence, why the statue of liberty is green. The whole exterior of her is plated in copper. Stainless steel is a steel based alloy. Steel was created to be a structural material. Thus, its very very hard and strong. So, you have one alloy that has a very weak/soft main ingredient and another that has a very hard/strong main ingredient. So, when you look at just the simplest terms, a steel alloy trumps a copper alloy every time. No debate to be had here. You can look at other parts of the alloys but that is inconsequential. Stainless steel frets are far superior in wear resistance and corrosion resistance to a standard nickel silver fret.

 

[BALIstic]

Laurent in Oz,

Sky Music ordered two of each colour. I had a local Perth dealer order me one in. You may have left your run a bit late if you haven’t got your name down somewhere by now though. Sky Music is our biggest mover of PRS and they got eight I can’t see more than 20-50 tops making it Down Under, certainly not from the first batch. I’d guess somewhere in the 20-30 region.

Surely there will be a cap on the number of JM 635’s. Everything else he’s put his name to previously, with the exception of his Martin acoustics, have only remained in production for a finite period to the best of my knowledge.....but I’m not a total JM fanboy so I might be wrong on this.

 

[BALIstic]

Yes. Yes I can.

I have a vintage Casio from the 80s that cost $1 from the Prestigious Wagon Wheel Flea Market. It is the centerpiece of my 80s watch collection that includes other FINE plastic tickers from:

Benetton
Coke
Pepsi
Swatch
various Calculator watches
several VOLTRON watches

Shoot, JM's 10M in watches has NOTHING on my 80's watch collection!!!! I bet NONE of his turn into robots!!!!!!!

I’m am also a connoisseur of fine Casio G-Shocks. And since my lying, cheating, thieving wife (ex in 113 days....but who’s counting) had me kicked out of my own home, well my G-Shocks easily make up a quarter of my net worth atm (couple of Mudmasters in there, I know very classy. I don’t muck around when it comes to keeping time ! ).

 

[BALIstic]

Just a little status update here, folks. I’m still excited about receiving shipment of my preordered SS in Tungsten, despite all of the a$$hattery on the internet

Me too Brother, me too.........

 

[Deleted member 5962]

I wish we could vote to get members temporarily suspended. Like 20 votes on a single comment or 50 votes in a week.

I know it’s nice to hear other opinions but jeeze... There’s a set of rules for a reason guys.

I don't think anyone needs to be suspended. Not for generally annoying people. Heck, I'm sure I'd have gotten 20 votes a week for that many time, and I'm just trying to have fun, not be a PITA. (I know, but at least I'm trying! LOL) That said, I think Drew and I would be friends in real life. He says he's fun loving, laugh a lot guy, as am I. I don't have a problem with anyone sharing opinions, especially if they are well thought out, well presented and not "troll style" such as insults, or "they screwed up" or "this is stupid" etc. Once you cross that line, you're trolling. So, IMHO, a back and forth "discussion" can have differing opinions and even those on both sides might learn something from the exchange. Bashing troll posts, insulting the company or PRSh or things like that, over one option that it's what you prefer, and then doing it over and over... That's trolling.

I have a guitar with SS frets. I love that guitar. I feel a difference in bending. I completely disagree with 10's bending like 9's on SS frets because string bending differences are more about tension than the slickness of the frets. But I definitely feel a difference bending and notice the smoothness of the SS frets, but the tension is still string related. And, I'd like for PRS to put SS frets on some guitars. I've been at a live meet where someone asked Paul about this and he said what he always does.

That said, I have a 20 year old PRS with no fret wear at all, so whatever they use is clearly better than most others.

I think that this one thing, being SS frets vs. PRS frets which seem to last forever even though they aren't SS, is not and never will be the reason a REASONABLE person buys or doesn't buy a guitar. I can't imagine anyone picking up a guitar and going "this thing looks great, feels incredible, sounds great, fits me so well I fell in love with it the second I picked it up, and it plays phenomenally well. It's everything I wanted in this type guitar and more. But, I'm not buying it because it doesn't have SS frets." If you've ever had that discussion, even in your head, you may be thinking yourself out of what really matters.

 

[strat63]

After reading this thread I feel like I'm the only person that's had to refret their PRSs. That would be multiple PRSs multiple times. To be fair I burn through frets on every guitar I own.

 

[toothace]

EXCEPT, we do know the basic general properties of the materials involved. Maybe not exact alloy ratios and manufacturing processes, but more than enough to work on. Steel and metals is my living, so I MAY have a tiny amount of knowledge on this.

Standard fret material is a copper based alloy. The copper content of the alloy is why your frets will turn green over time if you don't maintain the guitar properly or it its in a very damp environment. Hence, why the statue of liberty is green. The whole exterior of her is plated in copper. Stainless steel is a steel based alloy. Steel was created to be a structural material. Thus, its very very hard and strong. So, you have one alloy that has a very weak/soft main ingredient and another that has a very hard/strong main ingredient. So, when you look at just the simplest terms, a steel alloy trumps a copper alloy every time. No debate to be had here. You can look at other parts of the alloys but that is inconsequential. Stainless steel frets are far superior in wear resistance and corrosion resistance to a standard nickel silver fret.

For your viewing pleasure. Great information all the way through. About 2:10 he talks specifically to this point...

 

[Deleted member 5962]

After reading this thread I feel like I'm the only person that's had to refret their PRSs. That would be multiple PRSs multiple times. To be fair I burn through frets on every guitar I own.

What the heck do you DO with these guitars?

 

[toothace]

After reading this thread I feel like I'm the only person that's had to refret their PRSs. That would be multiple PRSs multiple times. To be fair I burn through frets on every guitar I own.

Could be strings, playing style and frequency, body chemistry, or all of the above...

 

[leokula]

Couldn't it also be luthiers trying to push for fret work without it being necessary?