The "Official Silver Sky" Thread

Of course the guitar is a direct competitor to Suhr, whether the intention is there or not. It's an S type guitar within 100$ in price of the Suhr. So, one cannot help to make a comparison. Yes, the Suhr has SS frets. Suhr jumped on that wagon early and has used it as a prominent selling point of their guitars, to great success. If you compare the guitars, can you say the Suhr is better in regards to frets? I'd actually argue yes. When you have vintage frets, you only get so many levelings and crownings before you need to refret. Most guitars with stainless frets never need to be refretted. There are original Parkers out there that still have frets that look new as the day they were put on the guitar. But, it's still personal preference. Some folks might not consider durability to be an important factor when it comes to frets.
I think you are ignoring my original point. Paul isn't looking to save money or put himself at a disadvantage in any way by NOT using stainless steel frets. He puts non-SS frets on his 5 figure cost guitars. This is a sonic choice from Paul, unless you choose to ignore his own words, which you may, in which case this argument is pointless.

Being a competitor to someone does NOT mean you have to make your guitar the SAME. Which was the point of the post to which I replied. He indicated that to compete with Suhr, you had to make your frets of the same material. I don't agree with that argument. Some may argue that stainless steel frets are "better", and use this as a reason to purchase this Suhr. If this is an overriding factor for them, then obviously this is the choice they should make. Others are fine with non-SS frets trusting that PRS knows what they are doing from prior experience, or feel that the other pro-PRS points override the fret material, and will purchase the PRS. The beauty of the free market place.

Just making it clear that my point was that PRS was not putting itself at a disadvantage by not using SS frets, but instead making their guitar different by using material that they already use in their other guitars.

If the argument is instead that the non-SS frets combined with the vintage configuration creates a longevity problem down the line, then this may have more merit. This was not the point of the post to which I replied, though.

Kevin
 
You seem to be getting hung up on my use of "directly". Apologies, so let's remove it from the disussion.

After owning many models from both suhr and prs, I can safely say that I much prefer ss frets. For me, they're an improvement on all fronts and I think offering them standard on this model would only serve to increase appeal/sales. That's it. Just my 2 cents.
I get your point, and think it is valid. Paul's own perspective disagrees with yours, which is why he makes his guitars using the non-SS frets. Yours is completely valid, though, and as this is an important factor for you, I understand your disappointment in the fret material. But I just feel it is incorrect from a general perspective ( not from your particular perspective) to say that PRS SHOULD use stainless steel frets, because a competitor does.

Kevin
 
I think you are ignoring my original point. Paul isn't looking to save money or put himself at a disadvantage in any way by NOT using stainless steel frets. He puts non-SS frets on his 5 figure cost guitars. This is a sonic choice from Paul.....


Kevin

Is it really sonic, though? No one knows what goes on in the mans mind, besides the man himself. I think it being a "sonic" choice is really an easy thing to say that people will buy into. A lot of people trust in what Paul thinks is good for a guitar sound, and he has a track record to back that up. BUT... could it be Paul being older and thus stuck in his ways now? If anything, I don't see Paul as the progressive guitar manufacturer. PRS used to be the modern guitar. Now that label is being applied to Suhr and Music Man while PRS has been likened more to Gibby and Fender as being more of a traditional manufacturer. The guy still makes great guitars. But, the lack of stainless steel frets plus the the emphasis on lower output pickups and more subdued colors points to a pattern of wanting to go back in time versus forward.

As for disadvantage. Perhaps there is not a short term disadvantage. PRS sales speak for themselves. But, younger guitar players will be todays older guitar players in time. Those players do tend to look for more modern appointments in guitars and will be the big spenders. I'm 41 and I prefer SS frets as do other similar aged players I know. So, that time is coming sooner rather than later. So, PRS could be at a long term disadvantage as younger players today develop loyalties to other brands.
 
Is it really sonic, though? No one knows what goes on in the mans mind, besides the man himself. I think it being a "sonic" choice is really an easy thing to say that people will buy into. A lot of people trust in what Paul thinks is good for a guitar sound, and he has a track record to back that up. BUT... could it be Paul being older and thus stuck in his ways now? If anything, I don't see Paul as the progressive guitar manufacturer. PRS used to be the modern guitar. Now that label is being applied to Suhr and Music Man while PRS has been likened more to Gibby and Fender as being more of a traditional manufacturer. The guy still makes great guitars. But, the lack of stainless steel frets plus the the emphasis on lower output pickups and more subdued colors points to a pattern of wanting to go back in time versus forward.

As for disadvantage. Perhaps there is not a short term disadvantage. PRS sales speak for themselves. But, younger guitar players will be todays older guitar players in time. Those players do tend to look for more modern appointments in guitars and will be the big spenders. I'm 41 and I prefer SS frets as do other similar aged players I know. So, that time is coming sooner rather than later. So, PRS could be at a long term disadvantage as younger players today develop loyalties to other brands.
I'm 45, and have only been playing guitar for 4 years. To be honest, I have no dog in the fret wire material fight. I'm not sure I'm skilled enough, or that my ears are trained enough to know any difference. I also had no idea until you said it that SS frets were a more modern choice. (Not that it makes it a better or worse choice, as obviously many other modern things are not necessarily better. )

Regarding the sonics argument. Nothing we can really do but take the man at his word. True or not, it is all we have. Besides the sound of his guitars to guide us and/or convince us.

I personally agree with the pickup argument, probably because of the genres of music I prefer playing. My personal favorite right now are the SD alpha omega set. Although the PRS \m/ pickups are VERY good as well. Really like high gain pickups that maintain articulation and clean up well. I want to try Titans and Juggernauts in other PRS guitars, because they also seem to have the characteristics that I prefer. I don't really have a local tech that I trust, though. It wouldn't bother me so much if my soldering skills weren't just SO bad. I'm thinking about taking a less expensive guitar and just changing pickups back and forth until I get good at it?!?!?!?

Kevin
 
Is it really sonic, though? No one knows what goes on in the mans mind, besides the man himself. I think it being a "sonic" choice is really an easy thing to say that people will buy into. A lot of people trust in what Paul thinks is good for a guitar sound, and he has a track record to back that up. BUT... could it be Paul being older and thus stuck in his ways now? If anything, I don't see Paul as the progressive guitar manufacturer. PRS used to be the modern guitar. Now that label is being applied to Suhr and Music Man while PRS has been likened more to Gibby and Fender as being more of a traditional manufacturer. The guy still makes great guitars. But, the lack of stainless steel frets plus the the emphasis on lower output pickups and more subdued colors points to a pattern of wanting to go back in time versus forward.

As for disadvantage. Perhaps there is not a short term disadvantage. PRS sales speak for themselves. But, younger guitar players will be todays older guitar players in time. Those players do tend to look for more modern appointments in guitars and will be the big spenders. I'm 41 and I prefer SS frets as do other similar aged players I know. So, that time is coming sooner rather than later. So, PRS could be at a long term disadvantage as younger players today develop loyalties to other brands.

Actually, Paul has said on video that he’s planning to investigate stainless steel frets for the company’s use. Whether that’s already in process, or is good, bad or indifferent, obviously I don’t know.

I do know that there are varying hardnesses of the alloy types he’s using, and some of them are close to stainless steel. It’s interesting stuff. I’ve never needed to refret a PRS, but then again, my ‘65 SG Special was never re-fretted either. I might just be easy on frets.
 
Calling PRS a “traditional” manufacturer and grouping them together with the Fs and Gs (which are totally stuck with their vintage lineup) because they don’t use stainless steel frets is hilarious.

What is the point of stainless steel frets anyway, besides longevity?
Paul always said they use the hardest fret material they can get - which has to be made in the actual fretboard radius because it’s not bendable at all. Also, the frets are glued into the fretboard, because they “don’t want the guitars to be re-fretted”. So, from my point of view as a customer, I don’t even start to think about the fret material, because it’s been taken care of.

About the lower output pickups: From my understanding, the “modern” way is using clear and clean sounding guitars, route the signal through a pedal board where I have multiple choices to make the signal “hotter” and then into an Amp of my choice. I don’t need high gain pickups to overdrive the valves in a 100W Marshall any more.

What am I missing? What didn’t I understand here?
 
I am finding a lot of this thread to be getting really interesting - for real. It's about perspective, I think. For instance, I am 44. I have been gigging professionally since 1991. In that time, I have run the full spectrum of guitars, pickup outputs, radius'/profiles - yet have NEVER done a refret. My style/genre has changed multiple times - from "selling out" (getting paid) to simply just "out-growing" a type of music. Aging causes changes too.

My point?

In the end, while SOOOOO much of this makes for great discussion - and it IS interesting to share/learn what is important to each other as players - there isn't one formula for what makes a single guitar "right". A collection of specs may work for you while you are in one phase of your life as a player - then all of a sudden just not work anymore. That's why it's awesome that we have choices.

Keep all of that in mind!!
 
Calling PRS a “traditional” manufacturer and grouping them together with the Fs and Gs (which are totally stuck with their vintage lineup) because they don’t use stainless steel frets is hilarious.

What is the point of stainless steel frets anyway, besides longevity?
Paul always said they use the hardest fret material they can get - which has to be made in the actual fretboard radius because it’s not bendable at all. Also, the frets are glued into the fretboard, because they “don’t want the guitars to be re-fretted”. So, from my point of view as a customer, I don’t even start to think about the fret material, because it’s been taken care of.

About the lower output pickups: From my understanding, the “modern” way is using clear and clean sounding guitars, route the signal through a pedal board where I have multiple choices to make the signal “hotter” and then into an Amp of my choice. I don’t need high gain pickups to overdrive the valves in a 100W Marshall any more.

What am I missing? What didn’t I understand here?

It's not just the stainless frets and you mentioned the other things as well. Vintage voiced pickups, conservative finishes, reluctance to go into many extended range offerings .I find it very ironic that Gibby has delved into USA production 7 strings while PRS hasn't. Yes, PRS is traditional based these days, and that isn't an insult. It's just what they've become. Darn fine instruments too. But, you can't call PRS a modern manufacturer when the last 2 major projects have been the 594 and the Silver Sky. In regards to finishes, PRS was coming out with really cool stuff. Orange Fade, Makena, Eriza, Solana, and Grandma Hannon Pink all kind of arrived around the same time. But, then they went away and nothing as vibrant took their place. My el numero uno #1 gripe with buying a PRS guitar is how boring the finishes are now. Would it hurt to bring back orange fade to production stuff with maybe a small upcharge because its a fade?

In regards to the stainless frets, it's not just the longevity, although that is huge. Bending on a SS fret has far less resistance. As I get a little older, I appreciate that more and more. My choice of strings with standard fret material are 9's. But, I've recently discovered I can go to 10's on stainless frets with about the same bending effort.

You are right in that more people are turning to digital processing but the sound isn't there and I'd guess it may never be. You get a great approximation, though, which is why people gig with Fractals and what not. But, anyone with "ears" will prefer having a high end 25 wattish all tube amp over anything DSP. No insults intended.
 
I love PRS guitars. They're a modern, forward-thinking maunfacturer that make guitars with killer tone and great playabilty. However, if you're gonna go head-to-head against Suhr's and Music Man's strat offerings, then I think you need to make sure you're using ss frets.

i have a classic pro and a cutlass. Both have stainless steel frets and both are incredible feeling guitars...the ss has a lot to do with this.

A PRS silver sky with ss frets would be killer and no doubt take an already fantastic guitar to the next level.
 
I always like it when folks are open-minded about various possibilities. An open mind learns new things, and having that “new information” light bulb go off seems to me to feel pretty good!

“But Les, you’re a die-hard tube amp guy, and die-hard about other stuff, too.”

Yeah. No one ever called me especially consistent.
 
I always like it when folks are open-minded about various possibilities. An open mind learns new things, and having that “new information” light bulb go off seems to me to feel pretty good!

“But Les, you’re a die-hard tube amp guy, and die-hard about other stuff, too.”

Yeah. No one ever called me especially consistent.
Do as I say, not as I do?! ;)
 
Do as I say, not as I do?! ;)

Actually, I do try out new digital gear, just to keep up with what the kids are doing. ;)

The odd thing is that most of the younger musicians I know and/or work with are into tube amps, too. Maybe they’re more willing to throw 100 pound equipment cases around than older wrecks like me.

But I still use tubes.
 
A collection of specs may work for you while you are in one phase of your life as a player - then all of a sudden just not work anymore. That's why it's awesome that we have choices.

RIWlokf.gif

So well said, it requires the Wooderson treatment.
 
Wow... This thread is really crazy. It is just a guitar.

At the end of the day, if you like it, buy it. If you don't like it, then don't buy it.
It seems that John Mayer likes it and Paul is building it as a result.

BTW - It doesn't matter if you are a Lawyer, or a Mechanic, or a Supervisor of sorts. It doesn't even matter if you own a bunch of Private Stocks or Core models or SE's.
Can you Jam???

When a women interviewer asked Eddie VH if she could learn to play guitar, he replied, " do you have Rhythm?"

Eddie didn't ask her what or which guitar did she play. He didn't ask If it had SS frets or if it was Brazilian or whatever.

I have been playing since I was 37 years. I have realized that I still sound like crud whether I played on my one of my PRS's or I played on an Hondo (Yes...I said Hondo...I told you that I am old!).
 
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I wish we could vote to get members temporarily suspended. Like 20 votes on a single comment or 50 votes in a week.

I know it’s nice to hear other opinions but jeeze... There’s a set of rules for a reason guys.
 
Without knowing the exact alloy material spec, it’s hard to know what we’re even talking about when comparing different manufacturer guitar frets.

“Stainless steel” is an entire class of alloys that breach a certain % amount of chromium/nickel content, and while in general the higher the chromium/nickel content the more superior is the stainless steel, that superiority has more to do with corrosion resistance than hardness. Unless we’re permanently gigging in Atlantis, I don’t think corrosion figures much except for aesthetics.

It’s the hardness that matters here.

Below the stainless steel class in terms of chromium content, there’s a continuum of alloy grades that can actually be harder than official stainless steel. The hardness of the metal actually increases when the chromium drops to a certain low level.

So when we talk stainless steel frets vs alloy frets, we may not even know what we’re talking about, unless we know the exact metal spec.
 
Agreed!!!!

At one of the last few Experience events, I talked with the PRS District Sales rep for the Northeast.
In the discussion, I told him how many PRS guitars I have.
He then said, " we LOVE guys like you!!!" as he slight shook his head, smiled and chuckled.

I walked away from that feeling like the word "Sucker" was just tattooed on my forehead.

Even though I am happy with my collection, there will always be a new guitar, a new model, a new neck shape, etc..

I realized that something is wrong when you spend more time buying and blogging on your guitars, then playing them.
Practice, practice, practice.

I am so glad that I haven't blogged 10,000 times or more.

Time is too scarce a resource to blog about a bunch of guitars that you don't need, can't afford or save the $, to impress people you don't know and then put them down because they may offer a difference of an opinion.

That said, I need to go learn Smoke on the Water....or maybe Stairway to Heaven...
.....damn I just broke an G string. I never did look good in them anyway.
 
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