The big capacitor debate...with request for input

B

Bolt-on

New Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2020
Messages
24
In my quest for tone, one of the crossroads I've come to is tone capacitors. I've been to forums where small wars were declared over the validity of them. some say a 2 dollar one does the exact same thing as 20 dollar capacitor, while others insist that capacitors played a major part in signature tones...I tend to think they're more than a sterile filter

I've tried the sprague orange drop, mojotone series and k40y 9 capacitors, anyone have any favorite worth trying?

Thanks for any input, even if it includes "don't fall for the placebo effect" :)
 
I just use Sprague orange drops. I bought a bunch of them in different values about 17 years ago and as I don't cycle through too many guitars I haven't used them up yet. They're good enough for me and they're cheap
 
An often overlooked factor in capacitors in circuits is whether your capacitor is installed in the correct direction. We are told that unless your capacitor is electrolytic and bears a +/- designation that they are non-polar. That is true, but they are also DIRECTIONAL. One side of an orange drop capacitor bears a foil wrapping underneath the cover that behaves like a shield. I don't know if it would make a noticeable difference inside a guitar, but after learning this fact, I built a simple device to test which end actually has the foil (not always correctly marked). I used that information in my latest 18 Watt Marshall TMB amp build and that amp is utterly comatose when not playing. No noise whatsoever.

As far as which capacitor should buy, let your ears tell you.
 
For the most part, outside of the capacitance value, the effect of a capacitor on tone is negligible. That said, there are physical characteristics that are worth taking into account. The reason Sprague orange drops are so reknowned is because they were some of the first metal-film capacitors available back in the day, and metal-film caps have several advantages over other types: they are more resistant to microphonics than ceramic disc capacitors, they're more resistant to humidity than paper-in-oil caps like the k40y-9, and they are stable over a wide temperature range. But orange drops are themselves overrated; nowadays you can get the exact same type of metallized film capacitor from nearly anyone for a fraction of the cost of an orange drop. Sprague was sold to Cornell Dublier in 2012, who later sold the line to Vishay. There's really nothing special left but the name, which is what you're paying for.

My advice: go with a cheap metallized film capacitor for stability. Stay away from paper-in-oil caps if you want reliable, consistent operation.
 
Sage said:
For the most part, outside of the capacitance value, the effect of a capacitor on tone is negligible. That said, there are physical characteristics that are worth taking into account. The reason Sprague orange drops are so reknowned is because they were some of the first metal-film capacitors available back in the day, and metal-film caps have several advantages over other types: they are more resistant to microphonics than ceramic disc capacitors, they're more resistant to humidity than paper-in-oil caps like the k40y-9, and they are stable over a wide temperature range. But orange drops are themselves overrated; nowadays you can get the exact same type of metallized film capacitor from nearly anyone for a fraction of the cost of an orange drop. Sprague was sold to Cornell Dublier in 2012, who later sold the line to Vishay. There's really nothing special left but the name, which is what you're paying for.

My advice: go with a cheap metallized film capacitor for stability. Stay away from paper-in-oil caps if you want reliable, consistent operation.
Click to expand...

@Sage advice indeed.

I'm of the mind that if it does what it's supposed to do physics-wise, everything else is marketing. The caveat being that a more name brand might have less variance from published specs, so you might get a more consistent, expected experience.
 
I have tried a bunch of different caps and to be honest all you need it to pick the value that works for your tone " if you use the tone control "
If you always leave the tone control on 10 then its not an issue as its not a significant part of the circuit. ( IMHO )
 
Thanks for the input folks! I find in most live situations I'm between 4-7 so I get use out of them to an extent.
 
In my experience, type doesn't matter in an electric guitar. What I focus on is cap value, the pot (type, value, taper, feel), and how it's wired (before or after vol control).

I gravitate towards the 200V Orange drops because they're generally available, robust, yet small enough to work with easily. Yeah they cost a little more, but in the grand scheme of things, they're still inexpensive components. Second, I'll take the Chiclets just because they feel a little more solid than the ceramic discs.

Based on that, I'd focus more on experimenting with different values if you're looking for something to do.
 
The ZOSO ones are the best, if you wanna squeeze your lemon. In years I haven't heard a difference, other than value of the cap.
 
I have the K40Y-9 (PIO) installed in my SE Custom 24 (harness by Jackson Electronic Luthier) i find it to allow for a wider tonal range when coupled with the Bourns push/pull Tone Pot, over the factory harness or the upgraded harness with the Orange Drop Caps. I like the Soviet Caps even more now that i have the 85/15S pickups are installed.

I have Sprague Vitamin Q (PIO) caps installed in my SE 245, also from J.E.L. there is, to my ears, only a subtle differance between stock and the new caps. Don't get me wrong I like the new tonal quality I am getting from the 245. But, i am willing to bet, the average guitar player will not hear the difference between mine and a stock 245
 
Capacitor production of an exact Farad value is nearly impossible to accomplish, statistically speaking. The manufacturers who sell tolerance values of +/- 20%, +/- 10% and +/- 5% don’t do anything different during fabrication, except maybe to calibrate their equipment prior to a run. They grade and label each capacitor based on where it measures. If it fits in the +/- 5% range it is bagged and tagged, ready for shipping. Chances of you finding one within +/- 1% are pretty good. The caps measuring within +/- 10% are going to measure no better than +/- 5%. Essentially no chance of one being within a +/- 1% range. The +/- 20% won’t be less than the +/- 10% tolerance range. Oh, and they will charge more for the tighter tolerances.

Spend the extra money to buy tighter tolerance components, be it caps, resistors, pots, inductors, etc. Or, buy equipment to test them yourself and as they say about guitar hunting, run the racks.

Caps have an inherent internal resistance value, which is very very high in the Meg-Ohm region. Over time, the resistance value lowers, which changes the circuit resonance frequency. This will affect your tone as the capacitor ages and degrades. Better caps will have a longer life expectancy, so again, paying a higher price isn’t foolish.

Electrolytic caps in particular have about a 15 year life span. The life shortens if they are not energized every now and then. These caps are found in tube amps, so turn your tube amp on and run some sound through it yearly to “reform” the electrolytic capacitors and extend their life.

John F
 
I'll be another guy who says value is the factor... I used to buy Russian PIOs for all my guitars. They aren't expensive and they've all performed well. I was usually replacing entire harnesses, never just a tone cap. But, then one day I was in a rush, and had no PIO cpas laying around of the correct value. But, I happened to have a few Mallory 150's in the correct values. Well, I honestly think the 150 sounds great. That one pretty much sealed the deal that a cap is a cap in a low voltage guitar circuit.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top