The 5-way Rotary Switch ?

[solacematt]

Amen...

What he said

Also, I've gotta say as the sole guitarist in my band I only use the rotary in two songs. It happens that switching from bridge and clicking twice to the middle option for the clean verses isn't very hard. I don't even have to think about it. It's a feel that's natural. I want to say that this natural feel probably comes from the fact that before I played PRS guitars I only played Gibson's. I didn't play Fender so I never had to deal with that ugly blade switch. I think the reason why there are people on this forum who like the blade is probably because at some point in their life, and probably now as well, they own a strat that of course has a blade switch. They're used to it. The rotary was a PRS innovation.

 

[László]

wow.

Fixed for you? Fine.

Obviously not fixed for the OP, or any other owner of an older PRS that can't afford to just go out and buy a new or current model.

The point won't be either "solved" or "moot" until all of the rotary knob switched PRS are either converted to blade switches or are toothpicks.

And I'm betting that there are plenty of players who love their rotary switches and you'd have to pry those guitars from their cold, dead hands.

The numbering bothers some, others don't care. But to suggest the topic is all pointless, well...

Life doesn't come with just one flavor.

Fact: PRS stopped making guitars that use the rotary switch. Therefore, the question of whether PRS should or should not change the numbering system for this part that they no longer use is no longer relevant to their production.

It doesn't matter if you or I or anyone else loves the rotary, or hates the rotary. It's out of production. They aren't going to make a new knob for the rotary, nor should they if they have any business sense.

The change to the blade switch took the question of whether the numbers on a rotary switch need to be changed out of the equation of parts design for PRS. Thus the problem, if it in fact is a problem, is "fixed." It doesn't exist for current production guitars at all. Forgive my humorous way of putting it as a problem that's "fixed." Let's just say it isn't going to be an issue at the Factory.

I don't believe that I suggested the topic was pointless. Just moot. The OP's 'problem' isn't going to be fixed by PRS if they aren't making guitars with the rotary any more, is it?

I certainly wouldn't expect PRS to fix an issue that exists only for out-of-production guitars, and that exactly one person has ever started a thread about on a PRS forum since the original one I joined in 2000.

As to 'wow,' well, let's just stay out of each others' way and not make comments like that. Your post doesn't change the fact that the part is no longer being used on any current PRS.

Amen...

That isn't the point of this thread. The OP complained about a part PRS no longer uses.

What you, I, or anyone else has to say about the rotary switch is just stating a personal preference that has nothing whatsoever to do with the rotary switch's numbering system. They aren't making rotary switches any more at this point. So there's no need whatsoever for PRS to fix the numbering system. It's an aftermarket issue now.

I'm not sure why the OP chose to make his point, but I figured maybe he isn't aware of the change in PRS current product.

Go make a fortune in the knob business by making rotary switch replacements for all the folks who feel a need to make that change. I'd be curious to see how many folks clamor for this essential part.

Whether you love the rotary or not is irrelevant to the numbering system on the old parts.

 

[rugerpc]

People still own these older guitars. People are still new to these older guitars and have questions.

For Adipsia:

Using custom parts when off-the-shelf will perform the same function and have no impact on tone adds a surprising premium to the cost of manufacturing. PRS could have specced out knobs that were labelled only 1-5 for the rotary, but the incremental cost may have been just too much at the time. A good depiction of how even a tiny incremental cost can derail a product can be found in the movie "Wheels" with Rock Hudson and Lee Remick. It has been a long time since I have seen it, but as I recall, a $5 strut brace killed a multi-thousand dollar car. Some might say that is only Hollywood, but it happens all the time in manufacturing when companies get to cost analysis.

So, we get 5 way rotaries with knobs numbered 1-10.

If you had not sold your 5-way, there are solutions. Custom knobs without numbers or numbered the way you want are an option.

Have a look here:

http://www.crazyparts.de/knobs/the-knob/index.php

Dealer question: Is 5 way rotary switching still available as an option, say in a PS build? And if so, would there be an additional charge for one knob to be labelled 1-5?

I think I know the answers to both of those questions.

 

[László]

People still own these older guitars. People are still new to these older guitars and have questions.

For Adipsia:

Using custom parts when off-the-shelf will perform the same function and have no impact on tone adds a surprising premium to the cost of manufacturing. PRS could have specced out knobs that were labelled only 1-5 for the rotary, but the incremental cost may have been just too much at the time. A good depiction of how even a tiny incremental cost can derail a product can be found in the movie "Wheels" with Rock Hudson and Lee Remick. It has been a long time since I have seen it, but as I recall, a $5 strut brace killed a multi-thousand dollar car. Some might say that is only Hollywood, but it happens all the time in manufacturing when companies get to cost analysis.

So, we get 5 way rotaries with knobs numbered 1-10.

If you had not sold your 5-way, there are solutions. Custom knobs without numbers or numbered the way you want are an option.

Have a look here:

http://www.crazyparts.de/knobs/the-knob/index.php

Dealer question: Is 5 way rotary switching still available as an option, say in a PS build? And if so, would there be an additional charge for one knob to be labelled 1-5?

I think I know the answers to both of those questions.

On this you and I 100% agree.

 

[John Beef]

a $5 strut brace killed a multi-thousand dollar car. Some might say that is only Hollywood, but it happens all the time in manufacturing when companies get to cost analysis.

See the classic business case of Lee Iaccoca and the Ford Pinto. Short story: an $11 part would have prevented gas tank ruptures when the car was hit from behind. That $11 part also would have pushed the Pinto over the targeted price of $1999 (this was the early 70s of course) so it was left off the car. Hundreds of people were killed or mutilated, and Iaccoca was rewarded with being named President of Chrysler.

So you see, PRS uses 10 position knobs, a few people get confused, and PRS goes from making a few hundred to thousands and thousands of guitars per year. HISTORY REPEATS ITSELF

 

[rugerpc]

In the movie, the brace tamed a shimmy the car had when traveling above normal highway cruising speeds. They didn't expect it to ever come into play, but they killed the care for safety reasons.

The exact opposite happened at Ford.

 

[László]

See the classic business case of Lee Iaccoca and the Ford Pinto. Short story: an $11 part would have prevented gas tank ruptures when the car was hit from behind. That $11 part also would have pushed the Pinto over the targeted price of $1999 (this was the early 70s of course) so it was left off the car. Hundreds of people were killed or mutilated, and Iaccoca was rewarded with being named President of Chrysler.

So you see, PRS uses 10 position knobs, a few people get confused, and PRS goes from making a few hundred to thousands and thousands of guitars per year. HISTORY REPEATS ITSELF

There's no doubt about it. A knob with too many numbers on it that confuses a guitar player is as dangerous as a drummer driving a Pinto.

I smell a safety recall for all rotary switched PRSes, don't you?

 

[C&M Music - Lafayette]

I have a question about this 5 way rotary?

Why is it numbered 1-10 if it only has five positions? :iamconfused::iamconfused: What did the 5 way switch do then?

 

[László]

I have a question about this 5 way rotary?

Why is it numbered 1-10 if it only has five positions? :iamconfused::iamconfused: What did the 5 way switch do then?

It did ten things but only five of them counted.

 

[C&M Music - Lafayette]

It did ten things but only five of them counted.

Thank you, but now I am even more confused. I guess you could say I am PRS Post Rotary Era and clueless about this.

 

[László]

Thank you, but now I am even more confused. I guess you could say I am PRS Post Rotary Era and clueless about this.

I was kidding. They simply used one of the standard knobs that went from 1-10, even though there were only 5 positions on the rotary switch. Most players simply went by feel or sound to figure out which position they were in (if you clicked back to one end position or the other it was pretty easy to figure out).

Used 'em myself for years. I find the blade switch an improvement, others don't. It's just a matter of taste, except for the part about where I'm always right. But other than that, yes, just a preference.

 

[C&M Music - Lafayette]

Thank you Les.

 

[strat63]

I still find this debate funny because the 1st 86 I had came with a rotary numbered from 6-10 instead of 1-10. I couldn't be the only one right? When it broke I could only find ones numbered 1-10 to replace it. Ended up super gluing it back together so problem solved.

 

[sergiodeblanc]

Well, here's the thing: That's not a true statement.

"Every previous PRS guitar ever" includes guitars with rotary selectors, toggles, pull-up knobs, and of course the early 90s EG with a 5 way switch just like the current ones.

Regardless, the issue with the rotary switch numbering is indeed solved if they aren't making the rotary switches any more. It's something that no longer needs to be addressed. It's a moot point.

Look at where they put the blade switch on those guitars and get back to me.


I totally agree with your opinion on the OP and add: count backwards, it's fun.

 

[jfine]

solacematt--PRS didn't invent the rotary, not even for pickup selection. Alembic had 3-way rotary pickup selectors as early as 1970, and in '75 I had them install a 5-way rotary selector in a Strat (Strats still came with 3-ways back then). Like an idiot, I had them wire the middle pickup out of phase, which was about the thinnest sound I've ever heard from an electric guitar. The things we do to our poor guitars...
And Aria had an Alembic copy in the late '70's-early '80's with a rotary pickup selector. Remember those Electra guitars from the '70's with the goofy built-in effects modules? They had a very cool 6-position rotary that offered either pickup, or both, in series or parallel, in- or out-of-phase. Worked great. And there's always the Varitone rotary, although it's not a pickup selector, used on Gibson ES-345's and 355's from 1959 on...I had a '67 ES-345 back in the early '70's, and I always found twisting that Varitone knob to be pretty awkward. Luckily, I only used two positions on it!

 

[László]

Look at where they put the blade switch on those guitars and get back to me.


I totally agree with your opinion on the OP and add: count backwards, it's fun.

I suppose we could quibble, but on all of the ones I've seen the blade switch is somewhere in the arc of the trem arm.

What works for me is keeping the trem arm tight and near the pickups. I keep my palm hovering over the trem arm, pick with two fingers holding the pick, and have my other fingers free to operate the blade switch. That's how I use a trem. For me that's a lot faster than using the 5-way switch. It's not a big deal if other folks have a different technique and prefer the 5-way. To each his or her own.

I realize that some players dig a trem arm dangle thing, other's like to reach back for the trem arm -- I mean, there are probably as many players' styles as there are players.

What I don't see is why this is such a big deal issue. Those that own, and love, their rotary-equipped guitars aren't going to wake up one morning and find the knob magically replaced with a blade switch. PRS has moved on, but they don't have to.

 

[sergiodeblanc]

I suppose we could quibble, but on all of the ones I've seen the blade switch is somewhere in the arc of the trem arm.

What works for me is keeping the trem arm tight and near the pickups. I keep my palm hovering over the trem arm, pick with two fingers holding the pick, and have my other fingers free to operate the blade switch. That's how I use a trem. For me that's a lot faster than using the 5-way switch. It's not a big deal if other folks have a different technique and prefer the 5-way. To each his or her own.

I realize that some players dig a trem arm dangle thing, other's like to reach back for the trem arm -- I mean, there are probably as many players' styles as there are players.

What I don't see is why this is such a big deal issue. Those that own, and love, their rotary-equipped guitars aren't going to wake up one morning and find the knob magically replaced with a blade switch. PRS has moved on, but they don't have to.

Well... We quibble because that's why we all come here, to talk about stuff that makes most peoples eyes roll into the back of their heads and fall sleep from boredom. Because it's February and the pool's closed I literally have nothing more fun to do than whine about pickup selectors until spring arrives, and it feels like debate club, which I was quite fond of.

It's only a big deal issue to me 'cause I don't like it. I think it's aesthetically pleasing to look at placing it where the tone control was, and it kinda looks "right" because of our previous association of the sweet switch being there, but it just doesn't work for me... that's all.

When you look at the guitars that were originally designed for the blade and trem thing, like the 305 and 513 and even the newer "P" models, you can see that they placed it like the old EG's like on a Strat, or in the case of the 513, they did Strat placement combined with their regular behind the trem placement, which is how we've been trained by PRS to reach for them.

The new placement seems like they are carrying it over from the Mira, a guitar never designed with a trem in mind, slapped it on the CU22 Soapbar, then the SAS, and then subsequently on every other guitar in the lineup, and I think that's a bummer. I really want to like the new guitars, I adore the S2 concept, want a semi hollow trem, really impressed with the way the new SE's look, and I'm completely knocked out with all the killer wood combos that are coming out now like the Korina necks, but there's just no overlap of these features for my personal taste. That's all.

I'm probably just being an old man about it. I can continue to buy old guitars and epoxy the **** outta some new ones anyway.

 

[László]

Well... We quibble because that's why we all come here, to talk about stuff that makes most peoples eyes roll into the back of their heads and fall sleep from boredom.

Haha! You have just described the look on my wife's face whenever I start talking about guitar gear. Or any gear, come to think of it.

The weird thing is that you have also described my son's reaction to gear talk, despite the fact that he's actually in the music business like me! He seems to be more into actually using the gear than talking about the gear, which is of course inexplicable.

Unless you're talking about vintage gear. Then he's into it. I got a FaceTime call from him the other day. He was doing some recording at Electric Lady Studio in NYC, the studio that Hendrix founded. It was full of gear that had been used on famous old recordings, and of course, he was into showing me all this vintage stuff on the FaceTime call. Most impressive? An old Wurlie used by the Stones. As soon as he hit the keys I could hear the EXACT tone used on some of their hits, no tweaking necessary!

Granted, I was into it, and actually felt good that he figured I'd be really interested in it and wanted to share some of the experience. But honestly I'd rather talk about PRSes than 1964 Melody Makers!

 

[sergiodeblanc]

But honestly I'd rather talk about PRSes than 1964 Melody Makers!

Ha! That's why I hang out here so much, why I don't do any other music forums that aren't PRS related, and why that silly little pickup selector has my panties in a bunch: My interest in guitars is so narrow minded I'm not joking when I say "all other guitars are just stupid".

I don't really do gear-talk with too many folks because I really don't care what I use anymore, any amp is fine, soft synths are fine, I haven't even ported my old plugins from Logic 9 yet, but if you wanna talk guitars and keep me from nodding off or hear genuine enthusiasm from me, there's only one thing I care about.

I still like old consoles, Eventides, Mu-trons, ARP synths, and plexiglass drum kits, but I don't want or need any of them. Show me a broken SE or a set of mismatched winged tuners and I break into a cold sweat of desire... Everybody's got a "thing'.

 

[László]

My interest in guitars is so narrow minded I'm not joking when I say "all other guitars are just stupid".

Nor am I joking when I say I agree!

I have a buddy who brings over all manner of collector and vintage and rare guitars. He absolutely, 100% knows that I only care about PRS guitars.

Nonetheless, periodically he calls me and says, "You have to hear this new acquisition!" And I put him off as long as I can, but he's a dear friend and I don't want to insult him. So he comes over with a few guitars, and insists I play them, and at no time do I wish I had what he brought over, and the whole time I'm thinking, "Please let me put this old stanky thing down and play my PRS that certainly plays better, and can do what this thing does and then some."

Most recently he brought over a PRS Archtop he'd found, in mint condition. It was wonderful, and we had a great time talking about something I was actually interested in. I got to explain a lot, show him my PRS books, etc. Night and day better than previous trips to my studio.

So yeah, I've got a "thing."