That NOS Tube Difference!

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In my search for NOS Mullard preamp tubes (that never stops because I love them in my amps), I stumbled upon this interesting comparison between the NOS Mullards from the 60s and the New Sensor Mullard-labeled Russian tubes that try to copy them.

This was on the Effectrode website; they make very high quality tube pedals. I thought I'd share because making a tube the old-fashioned "correct" way seems to matter, and may be why the old tubes simply sound better and last longer. In any case, here it is so you can decide for yourself:

http://www.effectrode.com/signal-tubes/mullard-ecc83-12ax7-reissue-original-physical-comparison/

I use NOS Mullard preamp tubes in my HXDA, and in the DG30 are NOS BRIMAR military box plates. Both amps sound fantastic. I have NOS output tubes in them also. I always thought this NOS stuff sounded better, maybe now I know a little bit about why they sound so good.

I never insist than anyone agree with me, so please make up your own minds on this NOS glass stuff, I'm just sharing the info I've gotten.
 
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In my search for NOS Mullard preamp tubes (that never stops because I love them in my amps), I stumbled upon this interesting comparison between the NOS Mullards from the 60s and the New Sensor Mullard-labeled Russian tubes that try to copy them.

This was on the Effectrode website; they make very high quality tube pedals. I thought I'd share because making a tube the old-fashioned "correct" way seems to matter, and may be why the old tubes simply sound better and last longer. In any case, here it is so you can decide for yourself:

http://www.effectrode.com/signal-tubes/mullard-ecc83-12ax7-reissue-original-physical-comparison/

I use NOS Mullard preamp tubes in my HXDA, and in the DG30 are NOS BRIMAR military box plates. Both amps sound fantastic. I have NOS output tubes in them also. I always thought this NOS stuff sounded better, maybe now I know a little bit about why they sound so good.

I never insist than anyone agree with me, so please make up your own minds on this NOS glass stuff, I'm just sharing the info I've gotten.

I'm scared to try them, for fear I would like them too much, given their price and availability.

I've had some amps that could care less which tubes I put in,some that sounded radically different. And even then it depends on which slot - example, my SE30 was indifferent to any 12ax7 in the gain stages, but the phase inverter was a game changer with different 12at7's.
 
Sad. I really wish the scale was there for someone to make these like the old ones!
 
What is this "new way" vs. "old way" difference? Is it the use of toxic materials to create the vacuum inside the tube? Because I really liked the Ei Elite stuff when it was being made, which would be "new way", neh? Even though that was like 10 years ago.
 
I'm scared to try them, for fear I would like them too much, given their price and availability.

As you point out, the amp itself is a big part of the equation, and the tubes are sometimes a subtle thing. I'd say the more transparent the amp, the more it matters. Merely changing the V1 in my PRS CAD amps makes a noticeable difference, as it did with my old Two-Rocks. But with some amps, less so.

If every 6 months or so I blow $150 on a Mullard pre tube, or a pair of NOS output tubes, I don't feel remorse. It's not something I do often.

What is this "new way" vs. "old way" difference?

Simple - it's the quality of the little subassemblies inside the tubes. As the article points out, the parts in the old tubes were better made, more robust, corners weren't cut. It's got nothing to do with toxic materials, and everything to do with quality of manufacture and modern Russian and Chinese manufacturers cutting corners and making junk.

Take the matter of the thickness of the coatings on the parts that assist the electron flow as one example. Or the quality of the plates, or the design of the mica that keep it from rattling and becoming microphonic, the better support structures, or other little details.

In the old days, nearly every electronic component, from TVs to car radios to aircraft instruments to medical equipment, was tube. Basically tubes needed to function well in all respects.

I had an interesting conversation with one of the Mesa service dept. guys a few months ago, because I have ridiculous tube rattle in the Mesa combo amp I have - he said that they have noticed a serious decline in the quality of the tubes they can get, especially in the last ten years, and that he personally has stopped recommending combos for the same reason. The fact that I've got to get an extension cab hooked up to record with that amp is relatively mind-boggling to me. Even as recently as ten years ago, my equally powerful Tremoverb 212 combo had zero tube rattle at any volume.
 
Simple - it's the quality of the little subassemblies inside the tubes. As the article points out, the parts in the old tubes were better made, more robust, corners weren't cut. It's got nothing to do with toxic materials, and everything to do with quality of manufacture and modern Russian and Chinese manufacturers cutting corners and making junk.
Oh, okay, so it's more of a general rule of thumb rather than a sweeping, hard and fast law. I was going to read the article, but thank you for cutting to the chase. I was afraid there was some sort of development -- like the aforementioned toxic materials, or the RoHS laws, or something else, that would dictate that the currently manufactured tubes are inferior. And there's certainly nothing stopping a new company putting together a quality tube, other than the fact that the talent just isn't there, and the legacy knowledge has been all but lost.

So it would be well within my expectations to believe that there might be one department of one company still making quality tubes (especially if Ei are going to put their "Elite" moniker on it)?
 
It will be interesting to see what happens to the quality of tubes used for musical applications moving forward as the market keeps shrinking. I'm actually a little paranoid and stocked up on most major tube types a few years ago jusssst in-case...
 
[QUOTE="Dusty Chalk, post: 344720, member: 6855]So it would be well within my expectations to believe that there might be one department of one company still making quality tubes (especially if Ei are going to put their "Elite" moniker on it)?[/QUOTE]


As I understand it - please correct me if I'm wrong - the Ei Elite tubes were made on the old Telefunken equipment in Yugoslavia before their civil war, and haven't been made for quite a few years.

They also are only available NOS now, or at least, that's what I was told. The company appears to have stopped making tubes a decade or more ago.

I'm unaware of any current production tubes that have that NOS quality. JJ may come the closest.
 
Dude brah yeah NOS makes everything better
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So it would be well within my expectations to believe that there might be one department of one company still making quality tubes (especially if Ei are going to put their "Elite" moniker on it)?

As I understand it - please correct me if I'm wrong - the Ei Elite tubes were made on the old Telefunken equipment in Yugoslavia before their civil war, and haven't been made for quite a few years.

They also are only available NOS now, or at least, that's what I was told. The company appears to have stopped making tubes a decade or more ago.

I'm unaware of any current production tubes that have that NOS quality. JJ may come the closest.
I don't know anything about them, I only know I got them new about 15 years ago. They might've been NOS, but they were quite reasonably priced*, so I thought they were new new stock.

I would have thought that there was a market for quality tubes -- between guitarists and audiophiles.

*They were a little more expensive than regular tubes, but I attributed that to the gold pins and the "Elite" branding, which I thought was like CCa -- just a nomenclature designating that they ranked better when tested.
 
I would have thought that there was a market for quality tubes -- between guitarists and audiophiles.

I always thought that too, that there would be a market for higher quality "audiophile / professional musician" level tubes made in the USA or otherwise, but from what I understand the market is much smaller than one would expect. either the chinese made tubes are "good enough" for the MP3 generation or most people cant actually hear a difference.
 
I always thought that too, that there would be a market for higher quality "audiophile / professional musician" level tubes made in the USA or otherwise, but from what I understand the market is much smaller than one would expect. either the chinese made tubes are "good enough" for the MP3 generation or most people cant actually hear a difference.

I think people can hear a difference in a really good amp, but they haven't got access to NOS tubes to compare them, and/or may not have really good amps to put them in where they're able to hear the effect.

No matter.

BTW, I love the aeroquip hoses attaching the NOS canisters in your car. Nice detail!
 
I always thought that too, that there would be a market for higher quality "audiophile / professional musician" level tubes made in the USA or otherwise, but from what I understand the market is much smaller than one would expect. either the chinese made tubes are "good enough" for the MP3 generation or most people cant actually hear a difference.
I wonder what companies like McIntosh use for their audiophile stuff ..
 
I think people can hear a difference in a really good amp, but they haven't got access to NOS tubes to compare them, and/or may not have really good amps to put them in where they're able to hear the effect.

No matter.

BTW, I love the aeroquip hoses attaching the NOS canisters in your car. Nice detail!

When I say "most people" of course I don't mean you and me. Haha. I mean all those regular little people with regular little ears.

Thanks but that's not my car. I have kids. I can't afford to NOS. lol
 
I wonder what companies like McIntosh use for their audiophile stuff ..

They use OEM branded tubes made in Russia and China, like Mesa. So does pretty much everyone else, because that's what's readily available.

However, lots of folks who buy these amps immediately replace the tubes with NOS. NOS tube dealers often have packages for McIntosh amps.
 
This thread reminds me of a question I've been having lately. Les I'm sure you'd have more to say than others but I'd love to have any input.

How much effect did old recording equipment have on tone? I know there is so much emphasis on guitars and amps. I understand that some here may have been around to hear some of the greats play live in the 60's and beyond. As a young buck and someone who doesn't know much about recording anyways.

For those of us who are chasing the tone from studio albums, how many variables are we fighting here?
 
For those of us who are chasing the tone from studio albums, how many variables are we fighting here?

A billion.

However, the biggest one is still the player.

Back when I owned and ran a studio, I would use the same equipment day in and day out on different players, and it was shocking how easy it was to get tones one day and how difficult the next.
 
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