sustain tips for PRS SE

[sumpe]

so, i finally got my first PRS, an SE custom 24 2016.
i am slightly put off by the LACK of sustain compared to a gretsch 5120 (bigsby) and gibson (stop tail).
i have had the frets levelled, changed nut to tusq, professional set up, and got 11s-52s strings on it.
i hear the springs vibrating quite a lot and several notes loose sustain fairly quickly.
i know an SE custom 24 will not sustain like a gibson, but am i missing something? are there tricks i need to try such as string height, pickup height, neck relief, a different bridge (ie mannmade 2000NOS), having more or less springs on the tremolo?

would appreciate your input. from all the things i mentioned, i am now considering the mannmade 2000 NOS bridge. PS: ideally i would not want to lock the trem (nor make it dive only - but would try if this is the only solution) but i am thinking, is there something else I must do here? is this just typical gibson to prs transition period? OR is my guitar dead!?

i know these guitars can be great, and I have experienced good things trying them in stores before, but somehow i am very put back by how some notes just die out and really wanting to sort it out.

i figure some of you would have gone through some things, so perhaps post what worked for you to improve sustain on the SE custom models with trems (i figure the American, CE and S2 models are different beasts potentialy so maybe not fair to compare here)

cheers

 

[AP515]

All notes die out or just some you try as you play up the neck?

 

[sumpe]

Hiya, there are main differences on some notes only, others seem to be fine (still less than the gibson or gretsch but I suspect i can expect that - however, even the gretsch improved significantly when i swapped the bridge)
I should add that when the guitar was professionally set up, we spent nearly 1 hr trying to see why there seemed to be buzzing when the frets were already levelled and we noted the springs were actually vibrating. this seemed to improve significantly with neck relief adjustment and the buzzing is not there anymore. but i can still hear a lot of resonance coming from the tremolo bridge cavity, which i sustepce is normal - this is my first tremolo bridge/floating bridge guitar, though again , the gretsch bridge is not fixed ...

 

[ReptilianNosewood]

A quick fix for hearing the springs vibrate is too run a piece of electrical tape around each set of them kind of loosely, it kills that sound.

 

[sumpe]

Hi there. Thanks for the tip and sharing! To clarify: do you mean lightly sticking a piece of tape around (like a changing the tape at the grip of a tennis racket for lack of a better analogy) on each spring?

The issue now is not so much spring vibration (though I still hear this lots - maybe i got used to it) but the sustain on some of the notes ... though I think def worth trying the tape thing even if it does not help the sustain)

cheers!

 

[ReptilianNosewood]

I actually typed it into google images to see if there was a pic since im not near my axe, i found one from here on the forums. Just like this one here.

 

[sumpe]

awesome! thanks

 

[AP515]

You can also put a little foam behind the springs and it will stop the sound.

The dying notes sound like dead spots to me. Many necks have them, especially 24 fret necks. You can test it. Put a weight on the headstock, like maybe a small C clamp (with a cloth in between to prevent scratching it), and see if the dead spot moves up or down to a different fret. If so they are dead spots. Not much you can do for them, at least that I know of. Just play the riff in a different location.

 

[You-S4-It]

Assuming it's not a dead spot issue, you might also want to consider changing your trem block from steel to brass. I have had good success changing them on my USA F-brand guitar to get a little more oomph out of it as that trem was just potted metal.
I'm no engineer (nor do I play one on TV) but I'm assuming the energy is passing thru your bridge and dissipating and being lost in your trem springs. Hence the springs vibrating. The "idea" behind the more mass block is it keeps the energy in your guitar strings and not "bleed out". That's the theory anyway.

All I know is that it did help my F guitar and my USA PRS trem blocks are brass. YMMV and some real engineer/rocket scientist maybe can chime in with their theory on string relativity.

 

[sumpe]

Hi there. Many thanks for the input. I am ordering a mannmade tremolo for the guitar. I think the swap from the stock trem will not 'hurt' the sound and potentially, as you said, will improove the overall sustain (I hope) and potentailly change the tone. In the end, I am wanting and willing to try all I can to improve this before putting down the guitar and concluding it is not for me.

Currently, I am swapping pickups for Dimarzios (illuminator on the neck and dominion on the bridge). I have to wait for that mod. I will test some of the things mentioned above when that is finished (I got a tech to do it as I have not yet learned how to swap pickups).
I will have a chance to hear the guitar again with new pups, play with the height of the strings and neck relief and put the tape on the springs. Then, when the tremolo comes, I should hopefully be able to tell the difference, if any. I will also play with a capo on the headstock to see if dead notes change position or not - this is a trick that also works like a C-clamp, at least for me on a previous guitar.

If other have more tips, please send them. I will post again when I test some of the things above and finally after the trem is installed.
cheers

 

[Michael_DK]

My core Brent Mason also has a dead note where it doesn't sustain very much. I've locked the tremolo. It may just be something that can't be gotten rid of.

 

[sumpe]

I am not sure expressed this well, but it is not 1 note for me, more a general feel with several notes though it seems the higher strings and 9-12th fret are a little worst.

 

[andy474x]

Could be magnetic pull from the neck pickup, if it's adjusted too high.

That 12th fret neighborhood can be tricky for dead spots. I've got a note or two on my S2 22 fretters that don't ring for a long time. Honestly, I think it all boils down to the trem. They're a useful tool, but when you're talking about balancing vibrating strings with springs, there's going to be some energy lost there. I think you're on the right track with the Mann bridge, the more mass you have the better.

 

[sumpe]

thanks! will check the neck height too... i am looking forward to getting the bridge in but trying to hold my expectations.

 

[Rider1260]

I would also try putting a 5th spring on the trem

 

[sumpe]

cheers. can try that too as I got an extra spring.

 

[sumpe]

some updates after getting the guitar with new pickups set up (dimarzio's Illuminator Neck, Dominion bridge)
- first impressions: significant difference - perhaps the sounds are already more appealing to me and think subjectively i am hearing less sustain issues - i lowered the neck pickup and bridge pickup so this may be a factor
- i then tried a 5th spring on the stock tremolo bridge: again i think a difference was noticeable
- i have not yet put tape on the springs as when amplified i can not hear them, but noticied this morning when practicing that, unplugged, i still hear them, so i might do that. Another bonus is that with 5 springs the trem is tougher, and for me, i like how it feels better - dont see myself going nuts on the trem, so maybe this is good for me but not everyone's cup of tea.

overall, i think the changes already in place have changed my feelings on the guitar, i can imagine that wiht the new trem installed (waiting still to have it shipped) things might improve more, but now at least i found, or seem to have found, what i digged about PRS in the past and place the guitar along my other ones as great, usable guitar, different, but not necessarily worst.

 

[BallsofDoom]

I had a 2001 Gibson SG Gothic with crappy sustain.... I could never figure out why. I also have a 2015 SE Custom 22 which sustains for days. My theory... some guitars ring out longer than others. It could be the wood, the hardware, pickups, frets, trem vs hardtail etc.....they all play a factor.

 

[sumpe]

New update with MannMade trem.
Well, I think it is even better. Better feel and sustain overall.
However, I also painted the guitar myself and with that I ran into a tiny problem that my nut would slide up about a milimitter. I tried gluing it but it was not until I properly glued it with strong (not super glue) glue that it seemed to stay in place. I wonder if the MannMade trem played a role but I doubt it.

Overall then I got to say with my modifications I like the SE custom 24, without it, I did not, or at least not nearly to the same extent. I got the guitar with all the mods in mind so I might have been biased from the outset, and I do remember loving the regular SE 24 on a shop and really digging it, so it could have been the set up on my guitar, etc.
My mods were: set up including dressing the frets, new nut, swap pickups, install Mannmade trem and paint job - the trem install and paint job i did myself. I figure overall my guitar cost about 1050£ with all the mods (all parts including the guitar were new, so would be cheaper if I had the pickups already). From my point of view this is still cheaper than any other 24fret guitar with a vintage trem and set neck out there of similar quality. And considering the S2s and other mid range PRS models, I still would have swapped the pickups and trem probably and the price would still be way higher.

Could add a photo of the final thing, but it seems can only upload URLs here.

 

[Dusty Chalk]

Hey, just a thought -- are you comparing clean with clean? Like you have the amp dialed in completely clean, where it's not even compressing? You just may need to dial in your amp again.

I realize this is probably not the case after all this time, but still thought I'd put the thought out there, you know, just in case it was a factor...