String stiffness on CE24. Help!

[Patrick Howell]

I just bought a used CE24 from a guy who set it up and put 10-46 strings on it. I've never had any problems with 24 fret guitars with 10's in the past, but I cannot get these strings to loosen up. I can barely get ANY string sustain past the 12th fret. I'm no tech, but the action and neck appear OK. I've tried adjusting the tremolo position and have played the thing until my callouses are coming off. Any ideas? I put 10's on a 24 fret SE years ago and all was fine. The strings are Ernie Ball.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

Are they the newer kind of strings, or the regular EBs? If they are Cobalts or whatever the other newer strings are, they are different.

 

[Patrick Howell]

Are they the newer kind of strings, or the regular EBs? If they are Cobalts or whatever the other newer strings are, they are different.

I’m sure they were just regular slinkys because I was buying the guitar from him and part of the deal was setting it up with 10’s. I’m thinking about just blocking off the trem and seeing if that helps. I don’t really use it anyway. I have a Custom 22 and a McCarty 594. I might just sell the guitar if I can’t figure it out. It’s mind boggling though. I can’t imagine that I am only able to use 9’s on it because that’s the way it was shipped.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

I’m sure they were just regular slinkys because I was buying the guitar from him and part of the deal was setting it up with 10’s

How sure are you? The new strings feel very different.

When I bought my EBMM Cutlass, I fell in love with the one hanging on the wall. played it for over an hour and had to have it. Then they said "we have a new one in the back just like that, that is still in the unopened box, if you want that instead of the one people have been playing." I said yes, pulled it out, it was perfect looking and took it home. I ALMOST used the 30 day return policy, because that guitar didn't play anywhere near as nicely as the one on the wall. When I called my sales guy he said that maybe it had different strings. We contacted EBMM and they said that the gauge was the same, but they may have used different types on one vs. the other... I replaced the strings with regular slinky's and immediately it was 90% closer to the first guitar. It must have came with Cobalts or something and they felt MUCH stiffer, even at the same gauge.

It's worth asking your guy to make sure. It was return vs. keep difference to me on the Cutlass.

 

[Silvertree]

I think you would get a lot of answers by changing out the strings yourself. It's quick and doesn't cost much.

 

[Collywobbles]

There's a section in Dan Erlewine's book (How to make your electric guitar play great, p88) contributed by designer Trev Wilkinson explaining that on a trem guitar string tension is in part a function of how high the saddles are relative to the trem's fulcrum point. Ideally you want the saddles as low as possible and the trem adjusted heigh-wise to allow that. Trev explains if the saddle is too tall it gets a leverage advantage over the fulcrum point and you get increased string tension. Possibly that's a factor if your saddles are jacked up high.

 

[Patrick Howell]

How sure are you? The new strings feel very different.

When I bought my EBMM Cutlass, I fell in love with the one hanging on the wall. played it for over an hour and had to have it. Then they said "we have a new one in the back just like that, that is still in the unopened box, if you want that instead of the one people have been playing." I said yes, pulled it out, it was perfect looking and took it home. I ALMOST used the 30 day return policy, because that guitar didn't play anywhere near as nicely as the one on the wall. When I called my sales guy he said that maybe it had different strings. We contacted EBMM and they said that the gauge was the same, but they may have used different types on one vs. the other... I replaced the strings with regular slinky's and immediately it was 90% closer to the first guitar. It must have came with Cobalts or something and they felt MUCH stiffer, even at the same gauge.

It's worth asking your guy to make sure. It was return vs. keep difference to me on the Cutlass.

I asked him a while back and he said "Oh, those are Ernie Ballls". If it was a special string, he would have mentioned it but he was selling the guitar and I can't see him spending more money tjan necessary.

 

[László]

Why not just change strings and see?

 

[Deleted member 5962]

I asked him a while back and he said "Oh, those are Ernie Ballls". If it was a special string, he would have mentioned it but he was selling the guitar and I can't see him spending more money tjan necessary.

Ok, just trying to help. both of the ones I played had EBs on them as well, and the same gauge, but very different feel.

 

[László]

The guitar also obviously needs a professional setup if your action/string feel is too stiff, and you're not getting sustain past the 12th fret.

Those are most certainly NOT typical PRS characteristics, and are usually evidence of a bad setup. A tech experienced with PRS setups should be consulted. Something is very wrong, given your description of the issues.

I'd check the neck relief, have them make sure the trem is resting properly on the knife edges of the screws, check the pickup heights against PRS' specs (you can find them on the PRS website), check the nut and the nut slots, and so on.

People do crazy things trying to set up guitars if they aren't knowledgeable about what they're doing. Fortunately, it's hard to permanently screw up the guitars, and bad setups can easily be rectified and the guitar returned to proper playing condition.

 

[Coral Sky Music]

How sure are you? The new strings feel very different.

When I bought my EBMM Cutlass, I fell in love with the one hanging on the wall. played it for over an hour and had to have it. Then they said "we have a new one in the back just like that, that is still in the unopened box, if you want that instead of the one people have been playing." I said yes, pulled it out, it was perfect looking and took it home. I ALMOST used the 30 day return policy, because that guitar didn't play anywhere near as nicely as the one on the wall. When I called my sales guy he said that maybe it had different strings. We contacted EBMM and they said that the gauge was the same, but they may have used different types on one vs. the other... I replaced the strings with regular slinky's and immediately it was 90% closer to the first guitar. It must have came with Cobalts or something and they felt MUCH stiffer, even at the same gauge.

It's worth asking your guy to make sure. It was return vs. keep difference to me on the Cutlass.

Good Point..That Cutlass might have come with the RPS strings like they use stock on Majesty guitars.
You have to be Petrucci or Lou Ferrigno to bend a string...

 

[Coral Sky Music]

I would not give up on your guitar until you change the strings, Since PRS reintroduced the CE24's they have all come stock with 10's on them and a string change is the simplest thing you can do to try and remedy the "stiffness" you feel. It does sound like there might be other issues there but always start with the simplest things first.
String change, pickup height adjustments, etc before you give up on your guitar. What Year is your Ce24??

 

[Deleted member 5962]

Good Point..That Cutlass might have come with the RPS strings like they use stock on Majesty guitars.
You have to be Petrucci or Lou Ferrigno to bend a string...

I found it especially interesting, that EBMM replied to me and couldn't tell me what strings they put on the guitar! I even replied to them "don't you have a standard set of strings you put on each guitar" and the reply was that they had a standard gauge, but would use whatever TYPE was on they guys bench who was stringing it up. Given that Ernie Ball has multiple types of strings, I found that more than a little bit surprising.

And, for those who know me, I'm a "feel and playability FIRST" guy. Those strings were VERY different than the standard 9-42 slinky set I put on when I replaced them! Must stiffer and harder to bend, yet clearly not because they were heavier gauge.

 

[Coral Sky Music]

That is both mindboggling and disapponting that you would get an answer like that from the factory..

 

[Coral Sky Music]

I am sorry but that answer Music Man gave you just sticks in my mind and reminds me of this

 

[Drew]

That is both mindboggling and disapponting that you would get an answer like that from the factory..

Not surprising. Finding Ernie Ball strings in stores is not as easy as it used to be. Could be a supply thing where they are using what they have more available of. That particular model is advertised as coming with M-steels. I'm guessing he got the correct strings for the model on the one he took home, because M-steels are the worst strings known to man.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

That is both mindboggling and disapponting that you would get an answer like that from the factory..

I felt exactly the same way. Between that and one other reply I got from them, it turned me off to them quite a bit. At the time I sent that email, I had 3 EBMM guitars and told them so. I had purchased new a JP12BRF, and it had a 1 year warranty. I had the guitar for 13 months (dated picture to prove it) and one of the fret inlays fell out. Luckily, it happened in my music room and I found it on the floor. I contacted the dealer first, and they told me to contact EBMM, and then to reply to them with EBMM's answer. I waited a few months to contact EBMM, thinking I'd rather drive it to the dealer (Lexington hint hint, from Cincinnati). I thought they'd want the dealer to fix it, since it is a BIG dealer with known good repair shop. When I emailed EBMM, it was 16 months after purchase. Told them what happened, and asked if I should take it back to Willcutt and if they'd just authorize and pay for the repair as warranty.

The response I got was a bit shocking to me, after purchasing mainly PRS and Taylor guitars in the 10 years prior to that purchase. They replied "well obviously it is well out of warranty, but we agree that something like that shouldn't happen. If you ship it to us and pay return shipping, we'll fix it for free." When I replied that shipping it to and from California would cost more than the repair would, and asked if I could take it to Willcutt in person for the repair, they replied that Willcutt was not authorized to do the repair... so they wouldn't pay for it. I was so surprised at their response that I'm really surprised I ever looked at another EBMM after that... I had a finish issue on my 14 year old Taylor 614CE and when I showed it to the guy from Taylor at a Road Show, he said "we'll fix that for free." I said "what about shipping to CA and back?" and his reply was "well send you a pre-paid shipping package, which includes a box to ship it in, right to your home. We'll repair it and ship it back, all free." That, plus the stories I've heard here often about PRS level of service, made me feel like EBMM was making high end guitars, but wasn't ready to provide "premium brand service."

I mentioned hanging out in the EBMM forum in another thread here. I was all about a Majesty for a while. There were multiple buyers of these $3K (at the time) guitars, saying the finish was wearing off the bridges in literally a couple months, and asking for repairs. EBMM's response was, "that issue is with the plating service we use and there is nothing we can do about it! We will send you one free replacement, but no more." In fact, the "accepted method" of dealing with it at the forum became to get the free replacement and keep it in the package, so that if you ever sold the guitar you could put the new one on and it would at least look new for the sale! HOLY FREAKIN CRAP are you serious???? Yes, they made no attempt ever (up to the point I soured on them and quit going to that forum) to offer a fix for all those guitars. Eventually they just quit selling them with that particular finish. But as much as I want a Majesty or another Axis, I have a hard time buying it after the weak answer on Cutlass strings, and the totally unacceptable response to my fret inlay falling out of a guitar that wasn't even 18 months old. Again, I asked them specifically "if I drive it 3 hours to the dealer will you pay for them to fix it?" and they said NO.

Sorry for the rant...

 

[Deleted member 5962]

Not surprising. Finding Ernie Ball strings in stores is not as easy as it used to be. Could be a supply thing where they are using what they have more available of. That particular model is advertised as coming with M-steels. I'm guessing he got the correct strings for the model on the one he took home, because M-steels are the worst strings known to man.

No, this wasn't a store, the reply came from Ernie Ball Music Man. He said that when they built the guitars, they used the same string gauge as advertised, but didn't use a specific type of strings, just used whatever was on the guys bench that day. I still have the email. And this was well before the pandemic crap, and was at EBMM! So supply chain was not the issue. At the time, it was NOT advertised as coming with M-Steels, but that may well have been what was on the one I bought, because replace it with regular slinkys was night and day better. I promise you, the one on the wall had standard slinkys on it because it felt and bent MUCH better than the one I bought, until I replaced the strings.

 

[DISTORT6]

I am sorry but that answer Music Man gave you just sticks in my mind and reminds me of this

Being a Union Electrician, you have NO IDEA how many times I’ve heard or used this gag!