SS frets!

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by 316ms, Jul 17, 2021.

  1. Simon Says

    Simon Says New Member

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    Great. Did you moan to Big Poppa its not headless? They will love your critical approach and knowledge of the matter on EBMM forum
     
  2. Drew

    Drew New Member

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    I'm generally in lockstep with most things Music Man does with the guitars. They are a forward thinking company that isn't afraid to take chances. That's not a bash on PRS but I often wish PRS would take a few more chances. Paul's a brilliant guy and it would have been cool to see what Paul could have come up with when working with a guy like Petrucci.

    Oh...and I just ordered a Kiesel headless to get my headless fix. Looking forward to having a compact guitar I can easily travel with.

    By the way, I've been critical on that forum too. But, those guys tend to not be defensive like I just insulted their mother or something.
     
    #42 Drew, Jul 18, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2021
  3. Em7

    Em7 deus ex machina

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    The problem with Music Man for me is that I find their guitars to be ugly as sin. The Music Man trem is an especially ugly design.
     
    #43 Em7, Jul 18, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2021
  4. Simon Says

    Simon Says New Member

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    Back when I was playing EBMM I was frequently visiting their forum too. Staying mute for most of the time. Big Poppa (Sterling) trashing customers was one of the main reasons for selling JP7 and 25th Anniversary and going elsewhere with my money. It might change now but I feel like we are talking about two different forums, Drew.

    Your problems here are not that we can't take criticism - it's the form and shape you making your critical analysis. I could agree with some of your points if you will put them across is slightly less offensive manner. Sometimes I feel like you are hoping for a standoff with members here. It's shame, man as otherwise I like your guitar nerdiness and I know I would enjoy to talk guitars with you for hours
     
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  5. Simon Says

    Simon Says New Member

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    JP7 was the only 7 string I could digest at that time. I still think it's pretty. Or all mahagony, rosewood neck HH Albert Lee... spectacular guitar. Cutlass needs a bit of time to sink in but less than Silver Sky IMO. I had a problem with bridge on both JP7 and 25th Anniversary - same as on most guitars other than PRS. I'm using heavy strings and I have a monkey punch in my right hand - I was keep pulling the saddles down on both
     
  6. RickP

    RickP Established 1960, Still Not Dead

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    Music Man makes great guitars, there’s no need to knock them because they do things differently from PRS. I have a Stingray bass that is the best bass I have ever heard or played! It’s exactly those sort of things that make me glad Paul is Paul the Ball family is the Ball family.

    I don’t want PRS to become Music Man, or vice versa. They’re different, and I can pick one or the other or both. Or Carvin/Kiesel, or Suhr, or Fender, Gibson, etc. The best guitars are going to be made that way. It’s called competition, and it’s healthy for the industry, and you and I are the ones who benefit. I’m not saying Paul & Ball wouldn’t be a killer guitar company, and I’m sure I’d buy their guitar, but I like them better when they’re pushing one another and giving us choices.

    I have a Taylor T5 that now has Taylor T5z frets… it’s not a difficult thing to make happen if you want it. But really, fret material or size is not even on the map for most guitarists. If the guitar plays good, they’re good. If it matters to you, it matters. Make it so.
     
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  7. Drew

    Drew New Member

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    Then it's an argument of form vs function. Is sound or playability important or the looks? That's a personal thing to everyone. A guitar has to be REALLY ugly for me not to consider it on that factor alone. I think Relish guitars might be the only one so far.
     
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  8. Drew

    Drew New Member

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    That is so far from the truth. Liking good healthy debate is different than provoking standoffs. It's all a matter of perception and I've tried to explain to the folks here that I have a direct manner of communication that isn't to be confused with provocative or inflammatory. I'm just a geek like most everyone else here.
     
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  9. Em7

    Em7 deus ex machina

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    For me, they are both integral to my enjoyment of an instrument. A guitar is like a woman in that most men have to be pleased with a woman's looks as well as her personality in order to consider anything long-term.
     
    #49 Em7, Jul 18, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2021
  10. dogrocketp

    dogrocketp I drank the PRS kool aid, and it was tasty!

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    The use of certain phrases and adjectives may define what we feel is derogatory. I have no need to bash SS frets people vs nickel silver people. I have no need to “criticize” manufacturers for their choices. Don’t like it, don’t buy it. There’s a difference between direct and derogatory. One causes people to circle their wagons, the other leads to an understanding of points of view. Derision is an idiot’s tactic that quickly becomes devoid of reason. Let’s hope we can avoid that level.
     
  11. LSchefman

    LSchefman Hears Tones

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    So you claim to read Paul Smith's mind now? You know exactly what Paul's thinking and motivation are by what voodoo?

    Have you ever talked with Paul about guitar making? I have; lots of us have. We have a little insight into the man. Maybe that's a reason you get pushback here, though there are other reasons as well.

    Why not instead look at facts on the ground, things that actually took place that demonstrate quite clearly Paul Smith's thinking, instead of yours? The story the facts tell is quite different than your imagination and projection.

    Among the many things Paul didn't have to do are redesigning tuners, trems, pickups and other features. He didn't have to go to the 594 neck - people were OK with the 25". He didn't have to design a bridge to replace the tune-o-matic. He didn't have to design his own tuners. TCI wasn't dictated by the market, he didn't have to do it. Narrowfields are his idea, not the market's. He didn't have to redesign the neck carves, didn't have to change the finish multiple times, etc.

    He didn't have to do lots of the subtle things that have been done over 35 years of production, and I've only scratched the surface.

    The list goes on, constantly, because the man is something of a perfectionist, based on the facts. Doing all that, of course, makes no sense under your analysis of Paul's motivation, but it makes great sense if the the fact is that Paul Smith undertakes whatever he believes is necessary to improve the products' tone and playability.

    What you call his fanbase was happy enough with all the previous stuff, yet he moved the goalposts anyway. He always does, based on his ideas of what guitars ought to sound like. Perhaps Paul Smith doesn't care for the zingy tone of SS frets. I've heard him say that he hates guitars that go "eeeee" in the high frequencies. He likes guitars that go "ahhhh."

    Instead of criticism, give him credit for choosing the things he wants the company to make. Maybe at some point that'll be SS frets, maybe not.

    The reason people criticize your posts is that they contain a lot of foolish assumptions, and you like offending people. Try not to do that.
     
    #51 LSchefman, Jul 18, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2021
  12. Drew

    Drew New Member

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    I've spent almost a quarter century on both the design and operations side of manufacturing. You think TCI wasn't dictated by the market? How many times have we heard stories about trying 10 Les Pauls to find the ONE? Paul found a process so that each of his guitars has a predictable sound. Those decisions are made so that your product has a certain advantage over your competitor so that people are buying your product and not theirs. ALL decisions are made with $$$ in mind when you create an actual product and you have the health of the business at stake. I have no doubt Paul takes pride in his guitars and wants to make the best guitar he can for the price points he needs to hit. But, it's not as rosy as you may think it may be. You are very much an idealist and the truth of these matters is often less idealistic.
     
  13. dmatthews

    dmatthews Dave's not here...

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    It's hard when you know everything but find it difficult to explain to "regular" folk.
    [​IMG]
     
  14. Drew

    Drew New Member

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    It's not that I know everything. I don't. It's that some of you don't know as much as you THINK you do and you cannot admit that to yourselves.
     
  15. Huggy B

    Huggy B Space is the place

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    I think you guys are coming down too hard on Drew when the only time he stepped in it was this arrogant statement, aside from that he makes some very valid points.

    I've discussed this subject in depth with one of the nations top techs on the subject, and he, I and a lot of industry pros feel that this whole debate is driven more by economics than guitar tone. The equipment needed to work on SS is more than twice as expensive as standard gear, and they fail a lot due to this being a fairly new application in the industry and the tools aren't developed well enough yet. Having to turn up your low mids & bottom a little to get a full tone is kind of minor in this equation.

    I get it, if I was PRSH I wouldn't want to mess with SS at this point and time, he's still selling instruments and if it ain't broke...
    I also feel that if he gets enough call for it to be an option available, it will happen, that's just business.

    What you have to ask yourselves before this becomes too much of a witchhunt for someone with a contrary viewpoint, those who bash SS, support the nickel=better theory.

    Have you ever owned a SS fret guitar long enough to actually form an opinion?
     
  16. dmatthews

    dmatthews Dave's not here...

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    Fair enough. You just know more than most everybody here. Got it.
     
  17. Drew

    Drew New Member

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    I just claim to have nearly 25 years in a manufacturing business environment and base my viewpoints in this thread off that.
     
  18. dogrocketp

    dogrocketp I drank the PRS kool aid, and it was tasty!

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    I have over 50 years, and I know I don’t know diddley, other than Bo. You like confrontation more than discussion, Drew. That’s what people object to, not what you say.
     
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  19. Moondog Wily

    Moondog Wily Howlin' At The Moon!

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    I agree. I have owned two MM Stingrays, and the current one I have I purchased in 2006. I will never get rid of it. Only bass guitar I have ever owned that I don't want to put down (although the weight these days has me putting it down faster than I would like)!!! That said, I have never played a Grainger or any PRS bass, so maybe they would be better, happy to wrap my arms around one if I have a chance!!
     
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  20. RC Mike

    RC Mike New Member

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    Goodness gracious. They’re just guitar frets. Buy and use what you like. Maybe that is more important than what someone else does.
     
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