Spoiled and Searching.

Big Owl

Tone is everything
Joined
Nov 10, 2023
Messages
32
Location
Kentucky, Oregon and all parts between.
Hello to all you players with good taste. Ha ha. Big Owl checking in here with a request for some assistance.
Here's the deal. Since playing my PRS HB 2, I am so spoiled that I am feeling the need to move beyond the acoustics I have. The 2001 Larrivee DV 10 is Rosewood, and the tone really suits me. The 1999 Taylor 410 kce is Koa, and while the tone does not suit me as well, the neck really does. It has a slimmer neck.
Neither is short scale, and I think I would prefer that.
Other than the PRS, I haven't bought a guitar in over 20 years.
Any thoughts on a direction to look would be appreciated.
 
No, not at all. I love the tone of my Rosewood acoustic, but prefer the 410 Taylor neck. I guess I want a guitar that combines that Larrivee tone and Taylor neck.
Just asking for specific acoustic guitar recommendations.
Thanks.
 
Hello to all you players with good taste. Ha ha. Big Owl checking in here with a request for some assistance.
Here's the deal. Since playing my PRS HB 2, I am so spoiled that I am feeling the need to move beyond the acoustics I have. The 2001 Larrivee DV 10 is Rosewood, and the tone really suits me. The 1999 Taylor 410 kce is Koa, and while the tone does not suit me as well, the neck really does. It has a slimmer neck.
Neither is short scale, and I think I would prefer that.
Other than the PRS, I haven't bought a guitar in over 20 years.
Any thoughts on a direction to look would be appreciated.
If you're just banging about on the acoustic and want a short scale, the Baby Taylor is a good deal. You don't have to put so much money in it that you're afraid to take it to the beach, and the ones I've heard sounded pretty decent. They're available in a variety of woods. too. If you've got the budget, I'd suggest a look at the 814CE. Not quite the fancy thing the 900 series is, but all the tone in a less flashy guise (which I prefer). The 814 series has been the best overall, do everything acoustic I've played. And the woods used are excellent. I'm currently thinking of trading my HD-28 in and getting one, but that guitar also sounds incredible... just doesn't play like the Taylor. The Grand Auditorium body makes it feel slightly more compact.

I also picked up a PRS P20E, a "parlor" sized acoustic, for a ridiculously cheap price recently, and it is an easy to play and decent sounding guitar. It doesn't have the round tone of a Taylor GA body, but it is a fun guitar at a super-livable price point. Good luck whichever way you go!
 
I've owned an Ovankol Taylor 414ce (gone) and now a 514ce V-class. Distinctly different. Wouldn't even really say that the jump up in series from 400 - 500 is necessarily better in playability and sound, just different. Seems worth it to go to where you can try several tuned up with good strings to really know what you're keeping.
 
Thanks guys. And Rick, I bought my grandson a GS mini Mahogany, after trying it next to a baby. The two I tried, no good comparison there. The GS was the winner. But, for me I am looking for something else to be my dream acoustic. Likely Rosewood, maybe 24 3/4 scale. As, dmatthews noted, the HB 2 has my electric needs covered...oh so well !
You Guys Rock !
 
OK guys and gals.
I tried out the Taylor 812 Builders Edition Redwood.
Just don't go there, unless you plan to always play amped. Sorry to say that the "dead wood special" was a toneless wonder. Once plugged in it sounded much better, but still.
The great build, appearance, and choice playability, was sadly overshadowed by mediocre tone. I expect that other 800 series Rick recommended would be better. But I am now Taylor shy. A guitar for 4 k that disappoints makes one leary of a brand.
 
OK guys and gals.
I tried out the Taylor 812 Builders Edition Redwood.
Just don't go there, unless you plan to always play amped. Sorry to say that the "dead wood special" was a toneless wonder.
I don't really get the idea of using redwood, other than it's a novelty.

My last Taylor -maybe 20-25 yard ago - was a similar novelty, a guitar made of walnut with a cedar top and ebony fretboard. My first couple of Taylors were Rosewood 810s, and I thought they were pretty nice.

At first I was excited with the walnut/cedar combination because the walnut body and cedar top sounded different. Then I lost interest - I couldn't find a musical place for it in any of my projects.

It was a concept guitar, more than a practical guitar. Looked amazing, sounded meh.

[insert "it's better to look good than to feel good" SNL line]

I think it was a 900 series, the guitar was a limited run and wasn't cheap.

After one year, its poly finish flaked off. The paint they used on it wasn't the right formula. However, they offered to refinish it and did.

When I got the guitar back, lit was accompanied by a note that said they found the neck needed a re-set - though the guitar was only a year old, always cased when not being played, and never left my properly humidified studio until I sent it back to them - so they did that, too.

Sadly, what Taylor did was simply saw the end of the neck joint, without bothering to sand and finish where it joined up with the body, so the repair looked like I did it myself with a chainsaw. It was awful.

And why would any guitar that was well maintained require a neck re-set after only a year anyway? I've been playing since 1967, and none of my guitars ever needed a re-set, including guitars I had for quite a few years.

That was disappointing, but I didn't want to get into an aggravating 'send it back again', and soldiered on.

After a few months, the finish started flaking off again, starting at the edge all around the top. Literally chafed my arm to play it. By then I was fed up, and I traded it in for a Collings SJ. The Collings served me exceptionally well until I got my first PRS Core acoustic. The PRS sounded better to me.

I bought my Private Stock maple Tonare Grand with an Adirondack Spruce top and ebony board back in 2013. It's incredibly stable. Sounds great. Mixes well in a track

As a result, I haven't looked at another acoustic guitar in a store. It's good to be happy.

I had a nice Larrivee at one point. It was a very sweet guitar. I don't think I'd ever be tempted by a Taylor again.

Sorry for rambling. What are you looking for in an acoustic?
 
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Hey Laszlo,
Thanks for the "ramble" I rather enjoyed it.
As for what I am looking for in acoustic, that gets pretty deep.
Superficially, great tone, like my Larivee DV 10. And the kind of great playability that I experience with my PRS HB 2 similarly in an acoustic.
Beyond that, and I expect you will understand, I want acoustic guitar love again. I like the acoustics I have a lot. We gigged together for decades, but I feel I have moved beyond them a bit in what I want in my guitar. Especially in terms of playabilty and electronics.
Now who is rambling...lol
 
My Cocobolo Angelus PS is an absolute dream .. one of my favorite guitars I've ever played , acoustic or electric
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On the electric side , if you like the sound of rosewood , look for a rosewood neck Santana .. they are the Holy Grail of tone
 
Hey Laszlo,
Thanks for the "ramble" I rather enjoyed it.
As for what I am looking for in acoustic, that gets pretty deep.
Superficially, great tone, like my Larivee DV 10. And the kind of great playability that I experience with my PRS HB 2 similarly in an acoustic.
Beyond that, and I expect you will understand, I want acoustic guitar love again. I like the acoustics I have a lot. We gigged together for decades, but I feel I have moved beyond them a bit in what I want in my guitar. Especially in terms of playabilty and electronics.
Now who is rambling...lol

If you're rambling, I don't know what the heck I'm doing, because I tend to go on and on!

For me, playability depends a lot on the way the guitar is set up and how it does over time, more so than how it comes from the factory. I ordered my PS Tonare with carbon fiber strength rods instead of the adjustable truss rod. I think it results in a wonderful tone not to have a big hunk of metal in the middle of the neck, but the bonus is that the setup has remained the exact same for 11 years, and I live in Michigan where the climate changes pretty drastically from winter to summer. It has never needed a setup. That's a big plus.

However, I do like medium gauge strings and a 'stiffer' setup than many, so don't rely on my comments on playability unless you're also into that type of setup. I love the way it handles, but that's just a personal thing.

In terms of tone, it's a cannon, with plenty of bass even though it has a maple body and maple neck, which usually sacrifice some of the bottom end.

When I received it, my son happened to be visiting while on tour with 30 Seconds to Mars, and was in the other room getting out his Taylor while I was tuning up. As he walked into the room, he said, "That thing sounds like a grand piano! Now I'm wondering why I even took the Taylor out of the case."

Jamie has gold records under his belt, and is a Fender endorser; he knows guitar sound as well as anyone. I was thrilled over how much he liked it.

Taylors are generally not built for big bass; even Bob Taylor commented around the time I had a Collings that a guitar that's built more heavily like the Collings has a different kid of tone than a guitar made to be lighter.

In any case, if you like a more perceptible bass response, try the USA PRS and the various Collings models, and see how they fit your playing style. Other than those two, the other guitar I'd be happy to own would be a Martin D-41. There's a reason Martins are considered a standard.

I'd also try a Gibson jumbo or small jumbo; they're classics, but you have to wade through an awful lot of them to find 'the one'.

Though my PS was built with electronics and included a highly regarded pickup, I only record a guitar with a mic. I got it with the electronics because the pickup was offered and I thought 'maybe I'll use it in a different context than recording, better safe than sorry'.

So other than plugging it in when I got it simply to hear how it sounds (sounds like a very high quality piezo, i.e., not my thing), I've never used the electronics. I took the batteries out 10 years ago so they wouldn't leak inside the guitar and screw it up. I've never liked the sound of a piezo pickup, no matter who made the guitar. YMMV

I mic a guitar using two mics in a stereo setup (the Dutch Radio 'NOS' stereo pairing), Granted, all I do with it is recording.

Also, leaning toward short scale acoustic, but the two I've tried Larrivee 000 40v and the Taylor 812 seemed short on tone...especially bass.

As you'd expect!

You get a very warm tone with a 12 fret guitar because of where the bridge sits, but less articulation in the higher frequencies.

Thing is, the high frequency articulation also matters for the perception of bass response, because a little more higher frequency snap on the attack of a bass note adds to our ability to perceive the immediacy of the low frequency tone.

It's why the classic thing to do with the studio to make. bass sound better is to boost 800 Hz with EQ to bring out the articulation.

It sounds counterintuitive since the 12 fret models often have a warmer bottom end, but the missing 'snap' makes them tend to sound a bit muddier.

Think about the low E-string twang on a 25.5" scale Telecaster style guitar. People love that tone. I think the initial, snappy note attack is why,
 
Hey.
Thanks so much for the thoughts and pics. Yall are great. Love the the look of that Angelus there Greywolf.
I have settled for a Taylor 710ce L9.
I say settled, because although it plays out really nice and better than my other acoustics, the tone, unplugged, isn't getting me all the way there. But close.
The 21 year old guitar sounds better than a new Taylor 812ce Redwood, that is certain. And cost me less than half as much. But it doesn't out tone my '99 Taylor 410kce, nor the turn of the century Larrivee DV 10.
So the Big Owl is happy...at least for a while.
 
If you're rambling, I don't know what the heck I'm doing, because I tend to go on and on!

For me, playability depends a lot on the way the guitar is set up and how it does over time, more so than how it comes from the factory. I ordered my PS Tonare with carbon fiber strength rods instead of the adjustable truss rod. I think it results in a wonderful tone not to have a big hunk of metal in the middle of the neck, but the bonus is that the setup has remained the exact same for 11 years, and I live in Michigan where the climate changes pretty drastically from winter to summer. It has never needed a setup. That's a big plus.

However, I do like medium gauge strings and a 'stiffer' setup than many, so don't rely on my comments on playability unless you're also into that type of setup. I love the way it handles, but that's just a personal thing.

In terms of tone, it's a cannon, with plenty of bass even though it has a maple body and maple neck, which usually sacrifice some of the bottom end.

When I received it, my son happened to be visiting while on tour with 30 Seconds to Mars, and was in the other room getting out his Taylor while I was tuning up. As he walked into the room, he said, "That thing sounds like a grand piano! Now I'm wondering why I even took the Taylor out of the case."

Jamie has gold records under his belt, and is a Fender endorser; he knows guitar sound as well as anyone. I was thrilled over how much he liked it.

Taylors are generally not built for big bass; even Bob Taylor commented around the time I had a Collings that a guitar that's built more heavily like the Collings has a different kid of tone than a guitar made to be lighter.

In any case, if you like a more perceptible bass response, try the USA PRS and the various Collings models, and see how they fit your playing style. Other than those two, the other guitar I'd be happy to own would be a Martin D-41. There's a reason Martins are considered a standard.

I'd also try a Gibson jumbo or small jumbo; they're classics, but you have to wade through an awful lot of them to find 'the one'.

Though my PS was built with electronics and included a highly regarded pickup, I only record a guitar with a mic. I got it with the electronics because the pickup was offered and I thought 'maybe I'll use it in a different context than recording, better safe than sorry'.

So other than plugging it in when I got it simply to hear how it sounds (sounds like a very high quality piezo, i.e., not my thing), I've never used the electronics. I took the batteries out 10 years ago so they wouldn't leak inside the guitar and screw it up. I've never liked the sound of a piezo pickup, no matter who made the guitar. YMMV

I mic a guitar using two mics in a stereo setup (the Dutch Radio 'NOS' stereo pairing), Granted, all I do with it is recording.



As you'd expect!

You get a very warm tone with a 12 fret guitar because of where the bridge sits, but less articulation in the higher frequencies.

Thing is, the high frequency articulation also matters for the perception of bass response, because a little more higher frequency snap on the attack of a bass note adds to our ability to perceive the immediacy of the low frequency tone.

It's why the classic thing to do with the studio to make. bass sound better is to boost 800 Hz with EQ to bring out the articulation.

It sounds counterintuitive since the 12 fret models often have a warmer bottom end, but the missing 'snap' makes them tend to sound a bit muddier.

Think about the low E-string twang on a 25.5" scale Telecaster style guitar. People love that tone. I think the initial, snappy note attack is why,
I'd have to strongly agree with a couple of your statements.

Before I got my Angelus, I played a ton of Gibson, Martin and Taylor guitars.

Didn't care for any of the new Martins or Gibsons and felt if I were going to buy from either company it would have to be an older or vintage model.

I did like the Taylor guitars but just wasn't satisfied enough to write the check.

I've never felt the electronics on any acoustic were ever "record" worthy.

Nothing worse than seeing a live show with an acoustic being played with its onboard pickup . Some I've heard were just awful.

Even though my Angelus led a hard life prior to me owning it, it's still an incredible guitar. 2010 with no truss rod. Plays extremely well.
 
I've never felt the electronics on any acoustic were ever "record" worthy.

A few years ago, Universal Audio came out with a plugin called Sound Machine Wood Works that was designed to make a DI'd piezo acoustic track sound like it was miked up.

I wasn't particularly excited about it after I demo'd it and wondered why the heck anyone recording in a studio would use it instead of pulling out a real mic (even an SM57 would have been nicer - to me, anyway). I could see it being of more use in a live recording, in a mix with other instruments.

Anyway, it's the only plugin I know that can take some of the onus off a piezo track, but it's far from perfect. Better to simply pull out a mic.
 
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