So yesterday... opened them up!

Discussion in 'Amplifiers' started by DreamTheaterRules, Nov 25, 2017.

  1. LSchefman

    LSchefman Hears Tones

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    This is a trick my son taught me, actually. I can’t take credit for thinking of it for myself, though back in the day, I used one of those little dictation recorders to do pretty much the same thing.

    It’s easy, it’s right there, it works.
     
  2. LSchefman

    LSchefman Hears Tones

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    Captain I’ve Been Saying This For Years welcomes you to the world of fine amplifiers, Captain Late To The Party!
     
  3. elvis

    elvis Hamfisted String Banger

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    I only run my amps at levels too low for the human ear. I can only describe the pure tone and dynamics under those conditions as "imperceptible".
     
  4. Elliot

    Elliot Still a New Member

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    can you see any blue/orange tube glow through the mesh of the Archon when you get it going? I've always been curious about that. Same with the 2 channel head
     
  5. Tucson Thump

    Tucson Thump New Member

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    I don't know when you guys grew up but I've had tinnitus for probably longer than some of you have been on this planet.
     
  6. sergiodeblanc

    sergiodeblanc Silver pants make me wanna dance.

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    I’ll be 18 this June so... yeah, I’m an adult.
     
  7. LSchefman

    LSchefman Hears Tones

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    Please. I’m older than a Galapagos tortoise. But no tinnitus despite long years of playing loud music. I think it’s really a matter of luck.
     
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  8. Boogie

    Boogie SuperD

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    You still should turn them up.
     
  9. DreamTheaterRules

    DreamTheaterRules Archon owning member

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    As a former (and somewhat reformed) audiophile, I read a lot about this early on and did everything I could not to expose my ears to crazy volumes. I like my music loud in the car, but I know, not for very long. I’ve been to concerts where my ears rang for a day or so and made up my mind not to let it happen again. Started taking ear plugs.

    I had a friend that had a good local band years ago (many, when I was in college and a few years after). They invited me over to jam with the band one night. They had a full band set up in a 14x18 living room. Full drum kit, bass player had this big tall 8x10 cab, guitar player (my friend) had a full Marshall stack, and the vocalist had (had to have!) a PA with 4’ tall speakers. I walked in while they were playing and immediately turned and RAN from the CRUSHING volume. I’ll never forget it... the first time the drummer hit the cymbals I cringed and immediately jumped back out the door. I knew then, there is no way I can jam with these guys. I had a Twin, and MXR Distorion + and could have competed volume wise, but the only time I turned that amp up to even 5 was in a 100’ x 200’ church.

    That guy is still a friend. He was a commercial airline pilot for years, but 10 years ago he finally got to the place where even with hearing aids (which he had been wearing since he was 35!) he couldn’t hear well enough and he lost his job. After a few years he found a job in his field where he worked on the ground and with computers, so he didn’t have to hear well to do his job. His hearing is almost completely gone and with hearing aids he manages to get through life. The last time I saw him was at church, and I played that night. He came up to me afterwards and said “I’d like to tell you that you sounded great, but I really couldn’t hear it well enough to say.” I felt so bad for him... he sold off all his stuff and only has one acoustic. He LOVES music and he LIVED it for years, but he can’t hear well enough to even enjoy it anymore. And he will tell you point blank, that he destroyed his ears with all that high volume playing. Very sad. A guy who love it so much, but wasn’t careful enough with his hearing.

    The moral of this longwinded story... I don’t care HOW holy grail it sounds, I’m not destroying my hearing. Once it’s gone, it’s gone, and I see the effects it had on his life. I don’t even WANT to know what it would be like to not be able to enjoy listing to music, much less playing it! I will play a modeler before I give away something I’ve worked my whole life to protect.

    Now, that said, the Custom 50 is not STUPID loud like that in a band situation. It’s only in a confined room that it can saturate the acoustic space, and your ears.

    Anyone else notice how the old PRS demos, they said that the cab was in another room (basement, I think)? If you can do that, crank the thing and roll with it. If you can’t, protect the hearing you have. And maybe, get a Power Station II.
     
    #49 DreamTheaterRules, Nov 30, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2017
  10. Tucson Thump

    Tucson Thump New Member

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    Kuddos to you for recognizing the issue early on.
     
  11. DreamTheaterRules

    DreamTheaterRules Archon owning member

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    I was lucky. My rock and roll friends wanted to blast everything, and really, so did I. If I hadn’t been into that stereo stuff and read about it there, who knows where I’d be now. I know it’s bad, and I can’t imagine even mild tinnitus. But the extreme stuff my friend has... It cost him a career he loved as a pilot. It costed him his first wife... Man, they were cool and lovin life when they were rockin but I was lucky enough to know immediately that it was WAY WAY WAY too loud. As he would tell you now, they were “used to it.” :(
     
  12. elvis

    elvis Hamfisted String Banger

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    What???
     
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  13. LSchefman

    LSchefman Hears Tones

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    I had earplugs custom molded in the 90s and still use them when things get loud.

    One thing, though, is that hearing loss and tinnitus isn’t always related to volume. There are ototoxic medications, hereditary issues, diseases that damage the inner ear, etc.

    My sister in law, for instance, never listened to loud music, was never exposed to loud sounds, and can’t hear without hearing aids. My wife hasn’t got great hearing, and was never exposed to loud volumes. My mother has had tinnitus for many years, and again, never listened to loud music or was exposed to high volumes.

    So while I’m a believer in limiting volume exposure, and use hearing protection, one can’t always be certain what night cause hearing loss.
     
  14. watelessness

    watelessness New Member

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    Just wait until you start messing with the impedance on the Archon
     
  15. Boogie

    Boogie SuperD

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    Dude! That was my rig from 1980 to 1984! Plus a Digitech RDS 1900.
     
  16. DreamTheaterRules

    DreamTheaterRules Archon owning member

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    Big, loud, heavy, and a clean machine. Wish I had kept it. But clean was the last thing I wanted back then. I sold that amp for a few hundred dollars! And bought a Peavey Bandit... because it had gain, and one of the three places I played regularly was a 3rd floor apartment and I couldn't haul the Twin up there to play at bedroom volumes. :rolleyes:

    Oh, the mistakes of youth...
     
  17. andy474x

    andy474x Knows the Drill

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    I keep a set of the Etymotic Research ETY20 plugs in each of my gig bags. Should've used them sooner, I hate it when I forget them. I don't have too much damage, but surely some. Very very low level tinnitus occasionally, only if I sit still for several minutes and it's perfectly quiet. Probably there all the time, but I don't notice it.

    Nothing magic about the plugs I use - I mean, they're nice, for cheap plugs - but I can tell they attenuate highs. But I don't sweat hearing a wonky tone if the drummer is gonna be a rock crusher all night, and I don't have to worry about losing them.

    Just makes me shake my head when I see these guys load in to a tiny venue with 4x12's. Really no reason a 100 watt head and 4x12 should be necessary (volume wise) for anything short of a large venue, and in reality of modern live sound, probably ever. Some like them for the tone... of course, no one else cares, but it's your back buddy! Any volume I'm comfortable playing at, I can reach with my Custom 50 and 2x12 (and quite a bit of volume beyond that). That sucker is LOUD, any gig with a decent PA, the sound guy is always telling me to turn down to about 11:00 on the master, I'm used to keeping up wit the drums on my own wattage at rehearsal.

    One thing that will take a local band up a few notches in venue likeability, is a drummer that knows the difference between a local watering hole and a stadium. I guess guitarists can be that way too, but it always starts with the drummer for me. Or, concerts where the sound is just obliviously too loud. Saw The Darkness at Paradise Rock Club in Boston once, and the guy at the sound board just f&$?ed the whole show for everyone, WAYYYYY too loud. Like, started to worry that I would be instantly deaf kind of loud.

    The drummer I play with most, I'm sure, will be effectively deaf by 50. He doesn't hit anything with less than a major league swing, and never wears ear protection. He already has to crank monitor headphones to the max, even to play his electronic kit. The weird thing is, he's an acoustic engineer of sorts by day, which is why I can't believe he isn't concerned about his hearing. He's just THAT guy, who always has to be the coolest, loud drummingest, motorcycle ridingest, corvette horsepoweringest, gun shootingest guy around. Come to think of it, he doesn't have any hobbies that aren't loud...
     
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  18. DreamTheaterRules

    DreamTheaterRules Archon owning member

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    uh huh... because once you breech that threshold, you don't really know what loud IS anymore.

    My friend mentioned in my story was completely surprised when I walked in that night and RAN out of their jam room. I told him that night, "that is WAY too loud and you will totally destroy your hearing if you keep doing that." Thing is, they'd already been doing it for over a year and did it for a few more years. But by that point, the damage was done. He remembers this and mentioned it when I reconnected with him a few years ago and he was updating me on his life and how his loss of hearing had changed it.
     
    #58 DreamTheaterRules, Dec 5, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2017
  19. andy474x

    andy474x Knows the Drill

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    It's sad, people who love music so much, can lose it forever. Loud can be fun, but not that fun.
     
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  20. LSchefman

    LSchefman Hears Tones

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    There’s a guy who mixes concerts at one of the bigger venues here way too loud, and with way too much bass. If I’m stuck going there I always bring earplugs.

    I have a difficult time with the idea of going deaf because some moron who’s mixing a show is obviously hard of hearing, or stupid, and wants to inflict that on the world.
     
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