So...thinking about yet another amp

[shinksma]

I already have an Archon (100W), HXDA (30W), and Sweet 16 (um, 16W). I also have a Fender HotRod Deluxe (40W).

The HXDA and Sweet 16 do a good job of single channel duty, and compress and get dirty as one would hope/expect.

The Archon has fantastic cleans on the clean channel, and great lead channel with tons of gain.

I have been toying with a DG30, but nothing has panned out. Good thing, after my Experience 2018 expenses and other stuff.

Playing some Gilmour recently, I realize nothing I have PRS-wise quite matches his Hi Watt amps. I have heard them described as a bit more compressing than Fender Twin Reverbs (which he has also used at times).

For the purposes of finding something close to the Hi Watt, I get the feeling that the HXDA and Sweet 16 compress a little too easily, and get nice and dirty. The HXDA clean channel stays too clean too long.

I played the Fender HRDX for yonks before finally getting into the PRS amp game. I find it hard to judge, I've played it so long, but it seems to be a nice compromise on the clean channel.

Anything in the PRS family of amps that lives in the space between an Archon and HXDA/DG/Sweet 16? Is the HRDX really all I need?

2 Channel C? 2 Channel H? Something else? Nothing, really?

This may be more of a thought experiment for now, but as you all know, I like to data gather, and eventually pounce.

 

[andy474x]

My Custom 50 is quite clean, but I wouldn't say it sounds like a Hiwatt or Twin. Maybe with brighter speakers.

Honestly, maybe a Sonzera? I don't know how clean they can be.

Otherwise, I would get opinions on a Super Dallas, or MDT. I've heard good things about both.

 

[veinbuster]

Its been a while, but I really liked the H. I wish I could remember why, but I want to say it had nice dirt without being too edgy. A nice solid growl if you will.

I really liked the Blistertone and the MDT, for similar reasons. Both are dirty amps with no illusions of cleanliness. The dirt is strong and forceful. I ended up with an MDT because my wife got an exceptional deal on it. If I had to decide myself I probably would have gone MDT because it was ever so slightly calmer than the Blistertone and had more range. But the Blistertone was a beast, and if I had a bit more space I’d have one just because it’s voice was almost larger than life.

That said, I really found the Kemper stuffed with Britt profiles to be a great way to explore amps (thanks to my man jfb for providing the educational opportunity during my beach time).

 

[László]

Beautiful cleans can be had from the DG30 with the Master up full and the gain low. You can dial in as much edge as you want, but it’s not your typical master volume amp; it’s something to spend some time experimenting with.

I get surprising cleans from the HXDA 30 I have, again, with the Master up full, and just using the gains as volume controls. Then dial in what grit you need, and adjust the Master. But I’m guessing you tried that already.

You might be able to find a vintage HiWatt in good shape; if that’s the sound you crave, it might be a fun search. I’ve heard a HiWatt 100 reissue, made in England, and it was (I think) pretty authentic. HiWatts compress and crunch up differently than lots of other amps. I heard a Suhr Badger I thought was interesting, too, though more of a cross between Marshall 18 Watt and a HiWatt (at least, it was able to get that kind of sound IMHO).

In a recent photo of Gilmour’s studio, he was playing one of the recent Magnatone combos, a VERY loud non-master volume 30 Watt amp that I tried, and couldn’t get to break up without breaking my ears up. There was also an Alessandro, and some other stuff I don’t recall.

So those are a few suggestions of things to look at if you’re after that sound.

 

[shinksma]

Thanks for the suggestions!

Actually Les, I never specifically tried to dial in the HXDA for powerful cleans - I get sucked into those Marshall-esque dirty sounds too easily. So maybe I will go try that.

 

[11top]

Get a Kemper and have them all,

 

[László]

Thanks for the suggestions!

Actually Les, I never specifically tried to dial in the HXDA for powerful cleans - I get sucked into those Marshall-esque dirty sounds too easily. So maybe I will go try that.

I recently posted a clip with “somewhere between clean and dirty” tones on the rhythm guitar track, and moderately grittier tones after the second guitar comes in. You can hear the “edge of dirt” part (with a boost pedal on!) in the first 4 bars.

Then I add a grittier guitar for the next 8 bars; that’s just me turning the volume up on the guitar, no changes to the amp - I set the amp up to be able to do that. Turn down the gain, and you get more clean headroom. One thing about old Marshalls is that they’re sensitive to guitar volume, and their inputs are easily overdriven/cleaned up. So play around with guitar volume, too. You can get some nice results that way.

The amp can get much cleaner, but this might give you some ideas, if you haven’t already heard it.

https://soundcloud.com/lschefman/pedaland-3

 

[shinksma]

OK, so I just turned on my HXDA, dimed the Master, put the Gains at 8 o'clock or so, and got a nice powerful clean tone that I could get to compress a little by adjusting gain.

Thanks Les! No I don't have to look into another amp!

Or...

Oh boo! Now I don't have an excuse to buy another amp!



I could get close-enough under the circumstances to a Gilmour tone (using my CE, middle rotary position, mini pedal board with just HM-2 into FRV-1 engaged) that I think it would be a worthwhile configuration!

I was thinking of re-arranging my amps-vs-pedalboards, so now I have a true reason - get the HXDA combined with my "big board" that has all kinds of goodies I use for Gilmour stuff. Swap over the HM-2/FRV-1/TR-2 to be in front of the Sweet 16 for that surf music combo again.

 

[László]

Get a Kemper and have them all,

Ha! That’s what Kemper players often say.

The Kemper’s great, but it’s not really having all the real amps. It’s having models, with all the pluses and minuses that come with models.

Pluses: Light weight, lots of different tones, cool stuff inside.

Limitations: The sound and feel are close, but no cigar.

 

[WeFixFlats]

Not sure if this might be a choice but I can tell you that Jennifer Batten tours with this live on stage with incredible results...If I were looking for something and 'not another heavy tube head' from any maker, I'd go for this...

http://www.bluguitar.com/english/AMP1.html

 

[watelessness]

Too me, the H was a Bogner Shiva, and i didn't find the cleans all that fantastic. The C was better that way, imho.

I have an HXDA, C, H, Archon 25, Archon 100, and a Dallas, as well as a Marshall JCM 2000 and a Louis Columbia Reverb. You might consider a Dallas.

 

[11top]

Ha! That’s what Kemper players often say.

The Kemper’s great, but it’s not really having all the real amps. It’s having models, with all the pluses and minuses that come with models.

Pluses: Light weight, lots of different tones, cool stuff inside.

Limitations: The sound and feel are close, but no cigar.

I agree with your post up to your last statement. Paul Gilbert among many others pros seem to think they sound as good. Steve Mesple, a Dumble collector and owner of Wildwood guitars did a “back to the amp test” comparing his best amps, and he told me his player employees couldn’t distinguish between.

 

[11top]

Not sure if this might be a choice but I can tell you that Jennifer Batten tours with this live on stage with incredible results...If I were looking for something and 'not another heavy tube head' from any maker, I'd go for this...

http://www.bluguitar.com/english/AMP1.html

I have one, and it’s pretty incredible. Mike Ross gigs with his.

 

[László]

I agree with your post up to your last statement. Paul Gilbert among many others pros seem to think they sound as good. Steve Mesple, a Dumble collector and owner of Wildwood guitars did a “back to the amp test” comparing his best amps, and he told me his player employees couldn’t distinguish between.

Doesn’t matter much what other folks can’t hear; if I listen to something and think it sounds artificial, that’s the end of the story. As it should be.

However, I’m not alone. Plenty of other pros won’t cut tracks with Kempers or other modelers unless requested. My son, who has now worked on 4 gold records as an engineer, mixer, and producer, is an example.

Instead of arguing over it with me, take a listen to what Tim Pierce, LA’s busiest session player, has to say. Tim explains exactly what I’m hearing with Kempers pretty darn well in this video. Listen to what he says beginning at about 1:19:30 in the video (you can just scroll right to it).

Tim: “I can still hear the inherent issues with the top end, and I can still hear the artificial nature of it.”

He goes on to describe a Josh Groban session where he tried using a different, highly regarded modeler, and the producer finally said, “You gotta get rid of that thing.”

Owning a Dumble doesn’t confer audio recording expertise, or a great set of ears, on the amp’s owner. It just means he likes Dumbles and can buy them. Paul Gilbert isn’t my idea of a tonemeister, though he’s a great player, but who knows what hearing he has left? I’m a guy who’s been working professionally for nearly 30 years recording guitars in studios big and small. There are differences. Amps are better at being amps than digital boxes are at being amps. If you can’t hear it, I’m cool with that, but I can.

Finally, touring is expensive, and amp cartage is very, very expensive. There are reasons pros tour with Kempers and Axe Fxs, and the like. One reason is the cost of shipping these amps around. Ease of setting up sounds for different songs is another. People do what’s easy, and on tour, that’s crucial. That’s great.

 

[sergiodeblanc]

I have been toying with a DG30, but nothing has panned out.

They’re tough to get excited about spending that much coin on at first. I’d be f@cked if anything ever happened to mine because I’m not sure I could live without it..... maybe you’re better off not knowing.

 

[bodia]

They’re tough to get excited about spending that much coin on at first. I’d be f@cked if anything ever happened to mine because I’m not sure I could live without it..... maybe you’re better off not knowing.

This makes me smile so much!

 

[11top]

Doesn’t matter much what other folks can’t hear; if I listen to something and think it sounds artificial, that’s the end of the story. As it should be.

However, I’m not alone. Plenty of other pros won’t cut tracks with Kempers or other modelers unless requested. My son, who has now worked on 4 gold records as an engineer, mixer, and producer, is an example.

Instead of arguing over it with me, take a listen to what Tim Pierce, LA’s busiest session player, has to say. Tim explains exactly what I’m hearing with Kempers pretty darn well in this video. Listen to what he says beginning at about 1:19:30 in the video (you can just scroll right to it).

Tim: “I can still hear the inherent issues with the top end, and I can still hear the artificial nature of it.”

He goes on to describe a Josh Groban session where he tried using a different, highly regarded modeler, and the producer finally said, “You gotta get rid of that thing.”

Owning a Dumble doesn’t confer audio recording expertise, or a great set of ears, on the amp’s owner. It just means he likes Dumbles and can buy them. Paul Gilbert isn’t my idea of a tonemeister, though he’s a great player, but who knows what hearing he has left? I’m a guy who’s been working professionally for nearly 30 years recording guitars in studios big and small. There are differences. Amps are better at being amps than digital boxes are at being amps. If you can’t hear it, I’m cool with that, but I can.

Finally, touring is expensive, and amp cartage is very, very expensive. There are reasons pros tour with Kempers and Axe Fxs, and the like. One reason is the cost of shipping these amps around. Ease of setting up sounds for different songs is another. People do what’s easy, and on tour, that’s crucial. That’s great.

https://www.kemper-amps.com/artist-gallery

 

[László]

https://www.kemper-amps.com/artist-gallery

Honestly, it’s not something one takes a vote on. There’s a difference. Hear it, or not. That’s not up to me.

I can only control what I do.

Buuuut...you realize how endorsers get gear, right?

Let’s take Dave Weiner, who plays with Satriani, and is on that list. He tours with Friedman tube amps, not Kempers.

Tim Pierce, whose pic is there held forth on the Kemper in that clip I embedded and quoted, and says there’s an artificial sound.

Tomo from 30STM was on the list - he tours with the Kemper, but doesn’t record with it. I have that on good authority.

So there are three I have a modicum of info about. Of the three, none have replaced their tube amps with Kempers. I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s fairly typical.

Speaking of your guy Paul Gilbert, as of late last fall, he was touring with a real Marshall stack, not a Kemper.

So I don’t get it. If there’s no difference, and it’s cheaper to tour with a Kemper, and these guys say they use them, why aren’t they touring with them?

I bet I know the answer...

 

[László]

They’re tough to get excited about spending that much coin on at first. I’d be f@cked if anything ever happened to mine because I’m not sure I could live without it..... maybe you’re better off not knowing.

I’m with ya on that.

Took me a while to understand what a truly great amp the DG30 is, and how best to deploy it as a weapon in the sonic arsenal. Patience is a virtue with the DG30, but it’s well-rewarded.

I feel the same way about what I can do with the HXDA, by the way, though obviously it heads in a different (but equally good) direction.

I firmly believe that single-channel amps are the most difficult to do well, because there’s that transition from clean to dirty thing. Doug Sewell nailed it on both of them. I’ve played very few amps that can boast of that.

I should take this enabling opportunity to mention that the matching cab matters.

 

[jxe]

“paul gilbert’s tone, is he aware of it?”

how does the dg30 compare to the metaltronix or the mp-1 into crown poweramps?