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Discussion in 'Electric Instruments' started by Buickrob, May 19, 2012.
^^ Yes, that is fine!
So the scenario is PRSh and co. are sitting around designing the Sig Ltd, have these denser than average hog blanks, they go "you know what, we're sick of making and innovating awesome axes for our legions of adoring fans, let's screw them over and make them believe it's been sitting at the bottom of a lake or river for hundreds of years, they'll never know the difference right? Then if someone calls us on it, we'll just put our hands in the air and say we didn't know" (cue belly laughs all round)
Bloody unlikely story. Honest boo boo and I have accepted the PRS response.
To me, this "issue" doesn't detract from the percieved value, they're all the same (PS aside), however if some had "sinker" and some didn't, then that would be a different story.
I still want one, like really really want one. The only reason I ever thought it was "sinker" by "that" definition is because I read it on BaM (along with all the rave reviews on the tone, the sustain and the versatility of the 408s).
that is a solid 2 cents ! (sense)
I own two of these guitars, one Private Stock (#6/100) and one from the limited run. Awesome guitars. I read the specs before I bought them and I was not cheated, deceived nor mislead. I got what I paid for and I certainly got my money's worth and more. I've read enough to know that "sinker" is nothing more than a marketing term. There is no industry standard definition of sinker wood. PRS never assigned any age to the wood used in these necks. Some people may have read the word "sinker" and put their own meaning on the word based on what they'd read in sales literature for other products or the internet rolleyes but that is their own failure, not PRS'. Had PRS claimed, "This is mahogany from a tree cut in 1875 that spent 135 years at the bottom of a swamp in Honduras and was recovered in 2010" then I think there would have been deception. They made no such claim. PRS rocks.
I have no way to know what Paul Smith knew. Neither do you. I know what Paul said he knew and I am not going to call him a liar. Here's something you surely can do; please define "sinker mahogany".
The only thing all of this makes me wonder is where is the cause and affect that results in a god sound. I suspect that what makes the neck sound good is that it was heavy enough to have been under water, not that it actually was under water.
I wonder how long it would take to run a proper experiment.
Wow. Kind of hard to marry that description with Shawn's response. This reminds me of Steve Jobs denying anything was wrong with ip4's antenna, telling the consumer they are holding the phone incorrectly. Eventually that blew over and people continued to buy iPhones just as before. I'm sure the same will happen here. Just wish they wouldnt have taken the "we didnt know" stance, when there's a video obviously contradicting that.
But alas, I buy guitars because of the way they sound, feel, and look. Not because the head of the company is a holy and righteous person devoid of ego.
I think I'll get a big necked Tele type until this blows over.
No, it hasn't. Please define sinker mahogany. David Grissom's rambling description is at odds with descriptions you can find elsewhere and it is clear he is not an expert in the field.
Since you seem to be an authority, perhaps YOU could provide the definition of sinker mahogany and how it differs from Grissom's "rambling description."
Frankly, I think his "rambling description" seemed pretty accurate, in comparison to the limited "definitions" of this term. Maybe you have superior Google skills or an extensive woodworking resume, and can educate us.
Round and round we go...
Here's an idea: organize everyone into two teams, give 'em uniforms and guns, and host a little war!
Put some bleachers out in the sun, and have it on Highway 61.
The mods could serve as the International Red Cross during the conflict, and the International War Crimes Tribunal afterward.
All I know is that I purchased one of these (my first of 2) when they hit the retailers. I looked through the case candy as I was trying it out, and the term "sinker" was used on the certificate. I asked the sales guy what that meant, and he clearly stated that it wasn't reclaimed wood from underwater, but was just a marketing term used to convey the fact that it was dense. This, well before any of this controversy. It didn't mean much to me personally since I'd never heard of "sinker" wood, and didn't know that it had any meaning in the luthier business. Point is that if the sales guy knew what it was, and was telling customers what it was, it doesn't seem likely that there was some sort of master plan to dupe the public. Educated retailers knew enough to accurately describe the product, so they at least must have been told what it was.
Grisson never said he was quoting anyone and he never said his only information came from Mr. Smith. He only said he first heard of it from Mr. Smith. The only word we have from Paul Smith is what is in the video he made and he did not conflict himself. Please define sinker mahogany.
Waiting for the expert to stop evading the question. I am not an expert and that's why I asked for an industry standard definition. You say Grissom's description is "pretty accurate" so you must know the definition. Please share.
Yes Jamie, I know. I've read enough BS about this too so I though I'd call the question. People keep writing that Paul Smith knew this made-up marketing term to mean something other than what he has said (calling him a liar) so I'd like them to state the official definition (and of course they'll need to give an authortative source). No takers. Go figure.
Played my SigLtd for a couple of hours tonight. The thing is a monster! I felt a little let down initially with the "sinker controversy," but there is no way I would give it back for a refund. I could not replace this guitar with a better one. It is far and away the best PRS I have ever had (and I have had many).
Who's to say that this "sinker" mahogany is not better tonally than sinker mahogany??
I'll go one better and say that I would not trade my guitar for one like it with mahogany that was recovered from sunken old growth because I don't think it could sound any better.