SE DGT convince me

[Mozzi]

SEs are not Cores. Just in case that is not super obvious to everyone. SEs are cool and good quality, but the difference is substantial. Don’t let looks and marketing hype deceive you. But if you want an SE, absolutely buy it. They are good.

Of course an SE is not a 'Core' but it gets very close to offering something 'similar' for less than 1/4 of the price. I'd like to see you try and buy something closer to a Core DGT for less than $1k - which is the WHOLE point. Not everyone has the money and/or could even justify spending that much on an instrument at their current stage of life, where they are in their 'musical' journey.

When I started, if you wanted a 'Gibson LP' or 'Fender Strat', you bought an Epiphone or Squire because Gibson/Fender models were 'too' expensive. The Gibson/Fenders were 'aspirational' instruments for if you made it big, won the lottery, got a recording contract etc - not something you 'bought' to learn, to start a band, start gigging etc. A Lot of pub bands would be using Asian made versions of 'high-end' guitars or some old beat-up used Gibson/Fender they got cheap. I wish the SE range had been around back then...

I see numerous artists playing SE's, recording, gigging etc Holcomb is a great example of someone who uses his SE signature guitars to record, gig, write etc.

For some people, the difference in Cost between an SE and a Core does not make financial sense. The SE gets very 'close' to offering the sound of a Core and paying 4x more for a core for 'little' differences isn't worth it. Another person though will say that all those 'little' differences add-up, the 'Premium' cost is certainly worth it to have the 'best' materials, best hardware etc. Some will say that multiple piece bodies/necks, even tops, make 'no' difference so not worth paying 'more' for - its still 'mahogany' with 'Maple' caps and rosewood fretboards. Some that will say a pickup doesn't know if its wound in China, Indonesia or the USA, steel/brass blocks/saddles are just 'different' not better/worse, and whether you have Mother of Pearl or Mother of Toilet Seat inlays makes no difference to sound so not worth paying extra for. Some may also say that a veneer looks as good, if not better than most 'solid' maple tops too. the 'shallower' carve of the SE too may feel more 'comfortable' and the lack of recessed back-plates doesn't affect the playability - its just a 'cosmetic' upgrade. Not 'everyone' feels that a Core is going to offer them the 'best' bang for buck when an SE gets that 'close' for a LOT less. For some, an SE offers the perfect balance of cost vs quality - the difference is 'not' substantial enough to 'justify' the extra cost to them.

I know that for some, only the 'best' will do but I also think that these are aspirational instruments for some too. - when I get 'good enough', when I can make enough money, when I become famous guitars. I don't see anyone recommending a 'Core' PRS to beginners/students for obvious reasons (although if they have the money to spend, its still their 'choice' to learn on a core) and an SE can still seem 'expensive' if you aren't earning a lot.

It does kind of bug me when people compare an SE directly to its 'core' counterpart - a guitar that costs 4x as much - and 'expects' it to be identical instead of being impressed that they have managed to make a much cheaper version of the core that sounds as close as it does, feels as close as it does and is as 'good' as it is for less than a quarter of the price - so not 'just' the rich and/or famous can now get these instruments. You could buy an SE DGT, SE Silver Sky, SE 594 and SE Cu24 for around the 'same' cost as a 'core' DGT, which may suit someone and their specific situation/needs much better. If you 'only' have up to $1k to spend on a guitar, then you aren't even considering buying a 'Core', the SE maybe the 'best' option for them in that price range and should be 'compared' to other guitars they could buy for the 'same' price.

Also, if you want 'something' different, an SE may offer the right mix of affordability and quality. I wouldn't want to spend $4k+ to find out I don't really like a 7 string, don't use the 'Floyd' enough to warrant buying a Core Cu24 Floyd, can't justify the cost of a HBii with Piezo etc etc but buying an SE maybe the perfect option.

Its a bit like saying an Epiphone LP isn't as 'good' as a Gibson Custom Shop R9, but if you only have enough money to buy an Epiphone, that guitar does 'everything' an R9 does, sounds like a 'Les Paul' to their audience, their ears and maybe one day, they'll be 'good' enough, rich enough to warrant upgrading to an R9, but right now, their Epiphone is 'perfect' for them - not too scared to play it in case they 'scratch it' and delivers the 'right' sound for their budget.

 

[Lewguitar]

Of course an SE is not a 'Core' but it gets very close to offering something 'similar' for less than 1/4 of the price. I'd like to see you try and buy something closer to a Core DGT for less than $1k - which is the WHOLE point. Not everyone has the money and/or could even justify spending that much on an instrument at their current stage of life, where they are in their 'musical' journey.

When I started, if you wanted a 'Gibson LP' or 'Fender Strat', you bought an Epiphone or Squire because Gibson/Fender models were 'too' expensive. The Gibson/Fenders were 'aspirational' instruments for if you made it big, won the lottery, got a recording contract etc - not something you 'bought' to learn, to start a band, start gigging etc. A Lot of pub bands would be using Asian made versions of 'high-end' guitars or some old beat-up used Gibson/Fender they got cheap. I wish the SE range had been around back then...

I see numerous artists playing SE's, recording, gigging etc Holcomb is a great example of someone who uses his SE signature guitars to record, gig, write etc.

For some people, the difference in Cost between an SE and a Core does not make financial sense. The SE gets very 'close' to offering the sound of a Core and paying 4x more for a core for 'little' differences isn't worth it. Another person though will say that all those 'little' differences add-up, the 'Premium' cost is certainly worth it to have the 'best' materials, best hardware etc. Some will say that multiple piece bodies/necks, even tops, make 'no' difference so not worth paying 'more' for - its still 'mahogany' with 'Maple' caps and rosewood fretboards. Some that will say a pickup doesn't know if its wound in China, Indonesia or the USA, steel/brass blocks/saddles are just 'different' not better/worse, and whether you have Mother of Pearl or Mother of Toilet Seat inlays makes no difference to sound so not worth paying extra for. Some may also say that a veneer looks as good, if not better than most 'solid' maple tops too. the 'shallower' carve of the SE too may feel more 'comfortable' and the lack of recessed back-plates doesn't affect the playability - its just a 'cosmetic' upgrade. Not 'everyone' feels that a Core is going to offer them the 'best' bang for buck when an SE gets that 'close' for a LOT less. For some, an SE offers the perfect balance of cost vs quality - the difference is 'not' substantial enough to 'justify' the extra cost to them.

I know that for some, only the 'best' will do but I also think that these are aspirational instruments for some too. - when I get 'good enough', when I can make enough money, when I become famous guitars. I don't see anyone recommending a 'Core' PRS to beginners/students for obvious reasons (although if they have the money to spend, its still their 'choice' to learn on a core) and an SE can still seem 'expensive' if you aren't earning a lot.

It does kind of bug me when people compare an SE directly to its 'core' counterpart - a guitar that costs 4x as much - and 'expects' it to be identical instead of being impressed that they have managed to make a much cheaper version of the core that sounds as close as it does, feels as close as it does and is as 'good' as it is for less than a quarter of the price - so not 'just' the rich and/or famous can now get these instruments. You could buy an SE DGT, SE Silver Sky, SE 594 and SE Cu24 for around the 'same' cost as a 'core' DGT, which may suit someone and their specific situation/needs much better. If you 'only' have up to $1k to spend on a guitar, then you aren't even considering buying a 'Core', the SE maybe the 'best' option for them in that price range and should be 'compared' to other guitars they could buy for the 'same' price.

Also, if you want 'something' different, an SE may offer the right mix of affordability and quality. I wouldn't want to spend $4k+ to find out I don't really like a 7 string, don't use the 'Floyd' enough to warrant buying a Core Cu24 Floyd, can't justify the cost of a HBii with Piezo etc etc but buying an SE maybe the perfect option.

Its a bit like saying an Epiphone LP isn't as 'good' as a Gibson Custom Shop R9, but if you only have enough money to buy an Epiphone, that guitar does 'everything' an R9 does, sounds like a 'Les Paul' to their audience, their ears and maybe one day, they'll be 'good' enough, rich enough to warrant upgrading to an R9, but right now, their Epiphone is 'perfect' for them - not too scared to play it in case they 'scratch it' and delivers the 'right' sound for their budget.

The difference to me always comes down to the pickups.

Put pickups and controls of the same quality as those in the Core in an SE and IMO the SE, if it’s had a thorough and professional set up, sounds as good as the Core.

Maybe not exactly the same, but just as good.

 

[GuitarJammin]

SEs are not Cores. Just in case that is not super obvious to everyone. SEs are cool and good quality, but the difference is substantial. Don’t let looks and marketing hype deceive you. But if you want an SE, absolutely buy it. They are good.

This is my Opinion. To say what the "difference" between the two is personal opinion, and will vary by player style/use/technique.

Personally for me the difference if HUGE between the SE/S2 lines and the core lines.

 

[Lkdog]

Of course most here will justify their price point that they have chosen. Rarely going to see anyone on this or any forum say I just bought a core PRS, but honestly the cheaper alternative was just as good.

I see this same debate on Gibson Les Paul forums about historics vs standards and the other lower priced models.

For me, I have compared LP historics to the less expensive Gibson models (and any other company SC alternative)for years. I always end up with an historic.

Same goes for a Gibson CS ES335 and any semi hollow alternatives.

I am very interested in the SE DGT and have had 6 of the core DGTs in the past 10 years.
Maybe that comparison will turn out different.

As a side note I went through this process with Fender Stratocasters for years. After trying custom shops and AVRIs, etc I ended up with a $900 partscaster that I love.

It happens and I will keep an open mind about the SE DGT.

 

[ruger9]

Of course most here will justify their price point that they have chosen. Rarely going to see anyone on this or any forum say I just bought a core PRS, but honestly the cheaper alternative was just as good.

I see this same debate on Gibson Les Paul forums about historics vs standards and the other lower priced models.

For me, I have compared LP historics to the less expensive Gibson models (and any other company SC alternative)for years. I always end up with an historic.

Same goes for a Gibson CS ES335 and any semi hollow alternatives.

I am very interested in the SE DGT and have had 6 of the core DGTs in the past 10 years.
Maybe that comparison will turn out different.

As a side note I went through this process with Fender Stratocasters for years. After trying custom shops and AVRIs, etc I ended up with a $900 partscaster that I love.

It happens and I will keep an open mind about the SE DGT.

Agree with all this. I cherish my old '93 tele more than my new Core DGT. Is the DGT "worth" 5 grand? Honestly... no. But it's a top-tier instrument, it IS better than an SE (I have owned SEs in the past)... but it's not 4 grand better IMHO. Frankly, had I not come into a little inheritance money, I would have bought the SE DGT and been fine with it. But I HAD the money, so why not? I love it, it's basically perfect.

But it's not really "better" than my old '93 tele (which has my pickup choices in it, and has been refretted with SS jumbo frets). That guitar was 700 new, and add about 550 to that for the pickups and refret it eventually needed. It's irreplaceable to me.

I'm sure the SE DGTs are fine guitars. No justification needed.... I'll never understand why the guys with $5K guitars have to tell the guys who can only afford SEs that "they'll never be as good as a core", and also why the SE guys have to infer that the core guys "overspent, because the SEs are just as good". Can't everyone just buy what they want and enjoy it without worrying about what everybody else plays???

 

[Jeremy Dahm]

Ok. So I was thinking about saving up for a core DGT, but since it will be a few years before that happens, and I would rather get the Herman Li signature with the dragon inlays (yeah I’m still dreaming that’ll happen), I thought “what about the SE DGT”? People say it’s “as good as the core”. Now I currently have a swamp ash WL MEV, Santana Retro, S2 594 thinline, Holcomb SVN, 2022 Studio, Fiore, CE 24, core silver sky, CU24, S2 Vela, Mira 245 soapbar, CE22, Suhr classic T, and 1976 ES335. I prefer the thinner necks for sure. I may be getting a tax return, so is the SE DGT worth it?

My thought is if you love the core DGT. Have played it, obsessed, ect.... then I'd say wait and buy one. If you haven't, I doubt the SE is going to be a disappointment. Be aware at least my experience has been that the guitar plays best with 11s. The frets, nut..... I swapped in 10s and a nut change would be necessary to stop some sizzle. My DGT anyway. I have a few cores and I can't say I play or enjoy my S2s any less.

 

[gemyneye]

My thought is if you love the core DGT. Have played it, obsessed, ect.... then I'd say wait and buy one. If you haven't, I doubt the SE is going to be a disappointment. Be aware at least my experience has been that the guitar plays best with 11s. The frets, nut..... I swapped in 10s and a nut change would be necessary to stop some sizzle. My DGT anyway. I have a few cores and I can't say I play or enjoy my S2s any less.

Thank you! Food for thought...

 

[Mozzi]

I'll never understand why the guys with $5K guitars have to tell the guys who can only afford SEs that "they'll never be as good as a core", and also why the SE guys have to infer that the core guys "overspent, because the SEs are just as good"

I think that is part of Human Nature and them 'justifying' their decisions and what they value themselves. That's not counting the different financial values and/or different stages of their musical journey they have in relation to others.

If you 'value' the way a guitar is built more than another, then maybe they do feel that an 'SE' can never be as good as a core because to them, the multiple piece bodies, neck construction and even having a 'veneer' on top means it can 'never' be as good. Those that 'don't' care about that, and only care about the 'sound' they get out, knowing they can put better Pups in if needed, better electronics all for a LOT less than a Core will argue that you have more money than sense to spend more than 'SE' money.

$1k can be a LOT of money to a young student, especially at the start of their musical journey and/or has very different 'values' of what they 'want' from their instrument. Someone in their 40's, earning a decent wage and/or much more experienced to know what they want or prefer, may think $4k is a LOT more affordable to them and well worth the extra.

Patriotic people too may feel that 'Made in US' matters a LOT to them so worth paying more to cover US wages and overheads. If having the Prettiest 'solid' wood tops, full Violin carve, US made pups and the 'highest' tier Hardware (inc Bridge/tuners/electronics/fret wire etc), Hard Case, 1 Piece necks/bodies, Made in the US etc really matters to you, then an SE is not 'good enough', if none of that matters to pay 'extra' for, an SE is more than good enough and paid less than a quarter of the Price for something that 'offers' the same to them as a Core would because the 'don't' care or feel those differences are 'worth' the cost to them and so you get 'both' making those statements...

There are so many different styles, shapes, colours, scale lengths, pick ups etc to suit EVERY budget, taste/style and preference. Just because 1 guitar at a 'certain' price point suits them the best, doesn't mean that is the 'best' option for all. Everyone has different idea of what they 'value' and how much money they feel they can spend on their Instrument. A beginner certainly may not feel they can 'justify' buying a Core DGT, even if they do think its significantly 'better'. It maybe their 'dream' guitar, the guitar they want to get when they are 'good enough', rich enough etc and another may feel the SE is good enough for what they want/need at the moment even if they could buy a Core, they 'value' the money more than the 'upgrades'...

But people do tend to try and use their own values, their own financial situation etc to make their arguments....

 

[Torvald]

I'm sure there are features in the core models that I'd appreciate and are much more expensive to produce, but there are also some features that I don't care about. For instance, I don't really care for the violin carve on the top or the necks being cut from a single piece of wood. I'd prefer a bit of an arm relief, and the three piece laminated neck on my Paul's SE is fine. I'm digging my little Soapbar 2 with the arm relief presently.

 

[Lewguitar]

I think that is part of Human Nature and them 'justifying' their decisions and what they value themselves. That's not counting the different financial values and/or different stages of their musical journey they have in relation to others.

If you 'value' the way a guitar is built more than another, then maybe they do feel that an 'SE' can never be as good as a core because to them, the multiple piece bodies, neck construction and even having a 'veneer' on top means it can 'never' be as good. Those that 'don't' care about that, and only care about the 'sound' they get out, knowing they can put better Pups in if needed, better electronics all for a LOT less than a Core will argue that you have more money than sense to spend more than 'SE' money.

$1k can be a LOT of money to a young student, especially at the start of their musical journey and/or has very different 'values' of what they 'want' from their instrument. Someone in their 40's, earning a decent wage and/or much more experienced to know what they want or prefer, may think $4k is a LOT more affordable to them and well worth the extra.

Patriotic people too may feel that 'Made in US' matters a LOT to them so worth paying more to cover US wages and overheads. If having the Prettiest 'solid' wood tops, full Violin carve, US made pups and the 'highest' tier Hardware (inc Bridge/tuners/electronics/fret wire etc), Hard Case, 1 Piece necks/bodies, Made in the US etc really matters to you, then an SE is not 'good enough', if none of that matters to pay 'extra' for, an SE is more than good enough and paid less than a quarter of the Price for something that 'offers' the same to them as a Core would because the 'don't' care or feel those differences are 'worth' the cost to them and so you get 'both' making those statements...

There are so many different styles, shapes, colours, scale lengths, pick ups etc to suit EVERY budget, taste/style and preference. Just because 1 guitar at a 'certain' price point suits them the best, doesn't mean that is the 'best' option for all. Everyone has different idea of what they 'value' and how much money they feel they can spend on their Instrument. A beginner certainly may not feel they can 'justify' buying a Core DGT, even if they do think its significantly 'better'. It maybe their 'dream' guitar, the guitar they want to get when they are 'good enough', rich enough etc and another may feel the SE is good enough for what they want/need at the moment even if they could buy a Core, they 'value' the money more than the 'upgrades'...

But people do tend to try and use their own values, their own financial situation etc to make their arguments....

I can always hear a difference in those videos that compare a Core model to the SE model. The Core model always sounds a little livlier.

But I think most of that is the pickup, pots and wiring. PRS uses an import version of the pickups in the SE models.

In my experience, I've been able to make my SE's into truly great sounding guitars by swapping out the pickups and electronics.

And with just a minimal amount of work on the frets and nuts, I've been able to make my SE's play as well as any of my Core model PRS guitars.

The exception would be my SE Silver Skys. Those pickups are great! And all they needed in terms of fret work was a little smoothing of fret ends. But just a little.

 

[Mozzi]

I can always hear a difference in those videos that compare a Core model to the SE model. The Core model always sounds a little livlier.

But I think most of that is the pickup, pots and wiring. PRS uses an import version of the pickups in the SE models.

In my experience, I've been able to make my SE's into truly great sounding guitars by swapping out the pickups and electronics.

And with just a minimal amount of work on the frets and nuts, I've been able to make my SE's play as well as any of my Core model PRS guitars.

The exception would be my SE Silver Skys. Those pickups are great! And all they needed in terms of fret work was a little smoothing of fret ends. But just a little.

As I said, its all down to the Individual and their own personal 'values' and preferences. It doesn't matter what you 'think' about SE's, how 'good' you've found them etc, If I 'value' Made in US, Hard Case, Pretty Woods, not veneers, 1 Piece bodies/necks, US made Pups etc to be 'worth' the extra cost and think that PRS compromised 'too much' to hit that Price point, then your argument would never convince me an SE could ever be 'good enough'.

If you had to save months to buy an SE because the 'cost' is high for you, that's going to feel very different to someone who could buy an SE every month if they wanted. They would have 'different' financial values so whilst one may not think paying 4x more gives enough in return, the other may feel the SE 'compromises' too much.

If you are a full time, professional recording artist you may feel the 'differences' matter a LOT more than a beginner/intermediate 'bedroom' only player using their Katana/practice amp. Where you are along your musical journey too impacts on whether or not things 'matter' and/or worth paying for. Some will pay 'more' for Stainless Steel fret wire for example because they think it's 'worth' it to have frets they think will never wear out and very low maintenance (Although it appears that some think they will never need maintenance either...)

Therefore, there is NO 'right' answer for EVERYONE! It really does depend on individual 'values' and their current situation. I could pop down to my local Supermarket and buy a decent set of Kitchen Knives to prepare food with for less than half the Price of just the Cook's knife in a Professional Chef's kitchen - both cut food and I cannot 'justify' or even have the 'skills' to really detect the subtle differences, the 'nuances' in the 'finer' detail etc. I can go to my local Hardware store and buy a decent set of Chisels to start carving with for less than half the price of some single chisels that Professional carvers use and wouldn't be able to justify or even have the skill level to understand what makes those 'Professional' tools used by Chefs, Craftsmen etc so much more expensive but the 'decent' tools - often made overseas - work perfectly well for my needs and skill level... Same can be true with guitars!

I think the SE's are exceptional for their Price - they get that 'close', maybe even prefer certain 'aspects' (like fretboard radius on Silver Skies) on the SE models that I think they are 'more than' just 'good enough' for ANY ONE if they were interested in buying one. I don't think you'd have any real issue in getting great tones from it and it being reliable/stable enough to gig with. Its perhaps more 'intermediate' player priced - by that, I mean they tend to be more than most would consider spending on their 'first' guitar - at least 'new' (unless in a sale), but as I said, its also 'good enough' for Professional players too. But then it comes down to do I think the 'differences' are worth it to me, can I afford to spend 'Core' money right now or even SE money, would it make a difference to me, to my 'music' etc which is very individual choices so the 'Decision' I make should be right for 'me', just like the SE choices you make should be the 'RIGHT' choice for you. The 'differences' are not valued as highly as they are to 'me' for example or the 'difference' in price wasn't so 'hard' a hit on my bank balance as it would be for you, maybe I'm at a different place/situation than you so therefore we BOTH ended up with the RIGHT guitar for 'us', even if they are at different ends of the Price spectrum.

No-one can say an SE DGT isn't the 'right' guitar for someone else and/or 'not' good enough, because for its Price Point, its the closest to a 'Core DGT' you can get for under $1k. It's good enough for a Professional to make their living on it if they wanted, cheap enough to not care too much if it gets beaten up, modified etc, so its 'good' enough for ANYONE. If people spend more on a Core, that is because they felt it was the 'right' choice for them based on their own circumstances and values at the time.

 

[Tonart]

I need someone to convince me not to buy…

 

[aphantomvaper]

I need someone to convince me not to buy…

Good luck with that around here. "They" only enable

Said with love!

 

[alantig]

I need someone to convince me not to buy…

 

[Frank McNerney]

Check this video out.

Great video from Cory.

In addition - I've seem one from McKnight and one from Tim Pierce. and I'm going to make a prediction

THEY ARE GOING TO SELL A LOT OF THESE !!

 

[Torvald]

I have the SE Paul's guitar and I'm jealous.

 

[Lewguitar]

Here's a good one. Sounds great but when he brings in his old USA made DGT I do hear a difference. But the SE sounds killer!

 

[MWebster]

I'll try not to write a book.

PRS SE have really upped their game with how good their pickups are. I have the Paul's guitar and ended up not buying the core because the SE was so great on its own I didn't want it's bigger badder counterpart to overshadow it. I want the pickups in that guitar for my other guitars! I've heard the SE DGT is no different! Just solid in its own right.

Now.. my core Semi-Hollow Special 10 top just came in. The finish feels different. The curly maple top is nuts. It resonates louder. Everything is impeccable before it's even plugged in. To me a guitar is better when it's made from fewer cuts of wood too. Anyway. I love my Paul's Guitar to wail on and practice with. But a core is magnificence.

On a side note I did hear a fellow this last weekend playing an SE DGT through an Archon head/Mesa cab and between his DG esque playing and the way he had the amp set up, it sounded pretty damn impressive. I think he bought it. They obviously gelled.

 

[Lewguitar]

PRS SE have really upped their game with how good their pickups are.

To me a guitar is better when it's made from fewer cuts of wood too.

Naysayers might disagree with you but I'm not a naysayer.

I like one piece solid bodies. They just seem to sound better and resonate more. Maybe because they're one piece of the same wood with fewer glue joints.

PRS pickups have improved across the board, both in the Core models and the SE's.

I love my Korean SE Singlecuts, but the Korean made SE Humbuckers used to go straight to the landfill, to be replaced with Duncans. Now the SE humbuckers are very good.

And the SE Single Coils in the SE Silver Sky sound as good or better than any single coil I've owned.

They also seem to have less string pull when I play up high.

The magnetic polepieces don't seem to pull on the strings as much and pull the high notes out of tune on the low E, A and D strings as they do with most other S-Type single coils when i play above the 12th fret.

 

[MWebster]

At least with the SE guitars they usually mount the pickups and bridge into the middle piece of mahogany/maple since both are usually 3 pieces glued together. So that is something, but every guitar I've owned that has been a one piece body, stood apart from the others.

Agreed, the old SE pickups were bland mud city. It's pretty awesome that all they need nowadays is maybe a better nut and locking tuners. But not essential. They're just great guitars on their own. I feel like the SE DGT would be no different. If it were my money, I'd just go buy the SE. The trem stays in tune if set up right, it sounds huge but articulate and is built like a guitar they intend for you to have a lifetime.