SE Bridge Pin Upgrade Tip

[CandidPicker]

After checking out some eBay offerings, I had ordered a set of bone /abalone bridge pins from eBay.

Unbeknownst to me, the pins' diameter is slightly wider than my SE A60E acoustic bridge will allow. The seller posted an ALL SALES FINAL listing, so I guess I'm SOL on returns.

Researching the PRS Accessory Store, replacement pins are available, but they're plastic black dot, IIRC.

Has anyone ever upgraded their PRS SE A##E series acoustic bridge pins with bone / abalone before, and if so, what could you tell me before ordering some upgrades?

 

[CandidPicker]

Seems like this question has been asked before.

I've discovered a workaround to the "too wide" diameter bridge pin dilemma.

Merely take an adjustable locking vise wrench, and dial in a lock width the size of widest point of the bridge pin (the protruding top end). Clamp down on the bridge pin. Using 220 grit sandpaper (waterproof OK) rotate the sandpaper around the upper width of the bridge pin closest to the top. Sand continuously for about 30 to 45 seconds.

Wipe dust from bridge pin. Repeat process for remaining bridge pins. Test your results by inserting the 1st pin into the 6th string bridge hole with string. If the pin doesn't seat with less than 1/16th or 1/8th of an inch of the shaft sitting below the pin collar, remove the pin and sand again until this tolerance is reached. If the string pops out of the bridge and makes a "boing" sound, sand the pin some more until the pin seats correctly and holds the string firmly.

FTR, the bone/abalone pins that were ordered from eBay didn't fit well when first installed, but after reading amazon's instruction on how to attain allowable tolerance, the above procedure was completed and the guitar retuned. Better results after researching and answering the necessary question.

Will post image to show the results. I learned simply by researching and asking myself what would solve that particular problem appropriately. Have fun, be well, & peace to you.

 

[Broseph]

Wish I had a vice to use. I’d be curious to try this.

 

[CandidPicker]

Wish I had a vice to use. I’d be curious to try this.

Simply a locking vise wrench with adjustable width is needed. I used a needle-nose locking wrench, but a simple C-Shaped will work, although with slightly more difficulty.

Hold the wrench in one hand and twist the sandpaper with your other hand the width of the pin. Pics will follow.

 

[CandidPicker]

Granted, the last image doesn't sit flush against the bridge. That really isn't necessary, but will hold the strings tight. For those who'd like a better seating, have at the sandpaper until you're happy.

 

[CandidPicker]

And, the workaround solution to hard-to-remove bridge pins is to reach inside the sound hole and push up from the underside of the pin. No damage to the pin! Simple, easy!

P.S. don't read too much into this. It's workshop guitar repair, not plumbing.

 

[veinbuster]

The thought of those teeth on my bridge pins makes me sad.

 

[CandidPicker]

The thought of those teeth on my bridge pins makes me sad.

Actually, the replacement bridge pins were bone, and the wrench gently compressed either side of the pin, much like a thigh master works. No damage to the pin, and no residual wrench marks. I smiled once the pins reinstalled within the bridge. Once the strings clicked into place, it wasn't perfect, but it had value to me.

 

[László]

So do the bone pins improve the tone? Just curious.

 

[CandidPicker]

So do the bone pins improve the tone? Just curious.

On some amazon pages, the sellers might post a video of comparative tone response. One seller demonstrated the difference between standard plastic pins and bone pins.

Although it was difficult to judge whether the bone string strum was just picked harder, or whether the comparison was equally strummed, the bone response curve showed increased frequency response across the frequency spectrum compared to plastic pins. The difference may likely be imperceptible to the average guy's ears, but I could hear and see on their oscilloscope a slight increase in loudness (meaning an increase in volume) across the frequency range. The test showed a comparative overlain test curve, and yes, the bone pins showed an increase.

The tone did seem clearer and louder with bone pins. In order for this comparison to work correctly, the guitarist performing the test must have kept his pick attack the same, as well as the force he used to strum his guitar.

I'm not all that convinced that bone or ebony is better tone-wise, but the abalone dots look better than plastic black dots, so there is that.

When the plastic pins were pulled, they sustained damage because it wasn't discovered until after they sustained damage that you could reach into the sound hole and push up from underneath. Lesson learned. Hoping there is less word salad this time, I got tired of trying to find arugula this week anyhow...

I took my time doing the install because rushing things might only cause wasted effort. (The haste makes waste mindset.) The reasoning behind it was if I couldn't fix it, it was likely gonna be broke anyway.

 

[Broseph]

I’m curious to try this. So unfortunate that PRS picked a non standard pin size.

 

[CandidPicker]

I’m curious to try this. So unfortunate that PRS picked a non standard pin size.

It's entirely possible that PRS might try and provide bridge pin upgrades for a slight added cost. It might also be that the bridge itself sounds better with smaller bridge holes. It's anyone's guess or opinion, really.

The workable solution is sanding down either a standard 5.2 or 5.3mm pin to 5.0 or 5.1mm size. I'd guess mine are about 5.1mm currently. PRS uses a 5mm width collar just below the bulb top of the pin. Perhaps that was the problem to begin with. PRS uses a nonstandard 5mm collar width pin.

 

[László]

On some amazon pages, the sellers might post a video of comparative tone response. One seller demonstrated the difference between standard plastic pins and bone pins.

Although it was difficult to judge whether the bone string strum was just picked harder, or whether the comparison was equally strummed, the bone response curve showed increased frequency response across the frequency spectrum compared to plastic pins. The difference may likely be imperceptible to the average guy's ears, but I could hear and see on their oscilloscope a slight increase in loudness (meaning an increase in volume) across the frequency range. The test showed a comparative overlain test curve, and yes, the bone pins showed an increase.

The tone did seem clearer and louder with bone pins. In order for this comparison to work correctly, the guitarist performing the test must have kept his pick attack the same, as well as the force he used to strum his guitar.

I'm not all that convinced that bone or ebony is better tone-wise, but the abalone dots look better than plastic black dots, so there is that.

When the plastic pins were pulled, they sustained damage because it wasn't discovered until after they sustained damage that you could reach into the sound hole and push up from underneath. Lesson learned. Hoping there is less word salad this time, I got tired of trying to find arugula this week anyhow...

I took my time doing the install because rushing things might only cause wasted effort. (The haste makes waste mindset.) The reasoning behind it was if I couldn't fix it, it was likely gonna be broke anyway.

Both my original US Tonare and my PS one came with ebony bridge pins. I like them, and never thought about swapping them out.

But naturally, I'm curious about whether a bone pin would accentuate transients,such as pick attack. If so, depending on the individual guitar, that might be a cool thing. That's why I asked.

 

[CandidPicker]

Both my original US Tonare and my PS one came with ebony bridge pins. I like them, and never thought about swapping them out.

But naturally, I'm curious about whether a bone pin would accentuate transients,such as pick attack. If so, depending on the individual guitar, that might be a cool thing. That's why I asked.

I wish I could answer that question, Les, but like you, I don't have the backing research other than what amazon sellers provided as their test comparisons. I realize it might be a pain to determine without backing data, but if the existing science is junk, I'm not sure how we could ever know what works, except to think about what research we read and then try to apply that knowledge in a practical way.

What I do know is that the seller's video belonged to Crosby Audio Pure Bone Bridge Pins. I'd include a link, except for protecting my amazon account.

 

[Uncle Bob]

On some amazon pages, the sellers might post a video of comparative tone response. One seller demonstrated the difference between standard plastic pins and bone pins.

Although it was difficult to judge whether the bone string strum was just picked harder, or whether the comparison was equally strummed, the bone response curve showed increased frequency response across the frequency spectrum compared to plastic pins. The difference may likely be imperceptible to the average guy's ears, but I could hear and see on their oscilloscope a slight increase in loudness (meaning an increase in volume) across the frequency range. The test showed a comparative overlain test curve, and yes, the bone pins showed an increase.

The tone did seem clearer and louder with bone pins. In order for this comparison to work correctly, the guitarist performing the test must have kept his pick attack the same, as well as the force he used to strum his guitar.

I'm not all that convinced that bone or ebony is better tone-wise, but the abalone dots look better than plastic black dots, so there is that.

When the plastic pins were pulled, they sustained damage because it wasn't discovered until after they sustained damage that you could reach into the sound hole and push up from underneath. Lesson learned. Hoping there is less word salad this time, I got tired of trying to find arugula this week anyhow...

I took my time doing the install because rushing things might only cause wasted effort. (The haste makes waste mindset.) The reasoning behind it was if I couldn't fix it, it was likely gonna be broke anyway.

Did you fit new strings when you replaced the pins?

 

[CandidPicker]

Did you fit new strings when you replaced the pins?

Yes; put new extra light .010-.052 D'Addario Phosphor-Bronze on the guitar. Have no clue what was there previously. They were suitable, that's all I can say. Couldn't A/B old strings/pins to new ones; the new strings seem "warmer," perhaps? I think if I sanded the pins down further there might be more definition and clarity, but am satisfied with these currently.

May try to see what happens when I have time to experiment and observe what happens with the bridge pins, but may refrain from doing so until other projects will be completed.

 

[Uncle Bob]

It’s probably fair to say that any noticeable tonal difference (or indeed unnoticeable) would most likely come from the new strings since, well, Occam’s Razor.

 

[CandidPicker]

It’s probably fair to say that any noticeable tonal difference (or indeed unnoticeable) would most likely come from the new strings since, well, Occam’s Razor.

Yes, concur. There was not enough information from the amazon seller's website to determine whether their test example utilized new strings for each test, but it would seem likely, in order for the test to be a blind test. (Subtitles told us when different pins were used. I might have liked if the test was double-blind at first with no subtitles, then with, revealing the order of results...)

 

[stevefout]

I have had good results with Tusq bridge pins on other guitars and I was pleased to find that their "Presentation" style have a diameter of 4.93 mm. If I'm not mistaken, this size should eliminate the need for sanding. I ordered a set to compare and contrast.

I replaced the stock plastic pins with bone and used the method of utilizing a drill as a lathe in order to uniformly sand them down to a useable diameter. I personally believe that there was a tonal improvement. I'll report back with Tusq results.

Yes, concur. There was not enough information from the amazon seller's website to determine whether their test example utilized new strings for each test, but it would seem likely, in order for the test to be a blind test. (Subtitles told us when different pins were used. I might have liked if the test was double-blind at first with no subtitles, then with, revealing the order of results...)