Santana and HFS/VB pups: Internet vs Real Life

[sergiodeblanc]

The internet seems to collectively hate the HFS/VB combo and Santana pickups, a negative response is pretty much a given whenever I read about these, and recommendations for replacement is always among the responses.

But.... if you really think about it... what other pickup sets have a more proven track record?

Santana’s Supernatural sold like, twenty million certified copies! And think about all the NuMetal bands.. all those guys with CE’s and CU24’s combined, have to equal another... IDK, 10-15 million more records?

Consider that the HFS/VB combo has been in production for twenty-eight years!!!!

If there’s a “PRS sound”, wouldn’t these be it?

What does the internet know that all these professional musicians don’t? (rhetorical question)

Maybe David Grissom with John Cougar Summercamp or the Dixie Chicks, whatever songs Brent Mason did when he was rockin’ his signature, some of the NuCountry/Bro-country dudes, and when Mark was doin’ Creed approached a portion of those sales but.... why are these pickups so hated on the interweb?

Don’t get me wrong, I do absolutely love my 5*/** pickups and would prefer them for some instances, but for some stuff... my Santana and HFS pickups are the sh!t.

First and foremost I believe you should trust your own ears, however... who you gonna believe when looking for pickup recommendations; the internet or real life?

 

[Ryan Murphy]

Ive never head the HFS in RL but what i have heard on the web I have enjoyed and toy with the idea of ordering a one and swapping out the 85/15.

 

[László]

“Abraham Lincoln was an alien. I read it on the internet.”

“Was there any proof of this?”

“Yes, but I didn’t understand it. Still, I read it so it must be true.”

 

[Wakester]

I have the SE version of the HFS/VB's in my 30th Anniversary SE CU24. No complaints from me.

 

[WA Paul]

“Abraham Lincoln was an alien. I read it on the internet.”

“Was there any proof of this?”

“Yes, but I didn’t understand it. Still, I read it so it must be true.”

Abraham Lincoln was a Vampire Hunter. It must be true because I read it in a book AND saw it in a movie!

 

[László]

Abraham Lincoln was a Vampire Hunter. It must be true because I read it in a book AND saw it in a movie!

Some people say I wrote the book and produced the movie!

“Liar.”

“Well, so what.”

“Well it’s just not true.”

“”I’m living in an alternate reality here. Do not presume to bother me with facts.”

 

[WA Paul]

Some people say I wrote the book and produced the movie!

“Liar.”

“Well, so what.”

“Well it’s just not true.”

“”I’m living in an alternate reality here. Do not presume to bother me with facts.”

“Facts are stubborn things” - John Adams

“No, I say that all the time!”

“Well, JA said it first, so he’s famous and you’ll merely have to settle for infamous, okay!”

“That’s like saying all the great notes and chords have already been played and all I get to do is steal from those that played guitar befor my time!”

“What’s wrong with that?”

“Go away, I’m trying to think up some great new notes and chords”

“Not really your strong suit, sorry!”

“Grrrrr!”

“Cookie Monster Vocals have already been done too, try again!” (Oh, please don’t!)

(Door slamming shut)

 

[veinbuster]

I keep my raggedy old SAS mostly because I like the sound I can get out of the HFS/VB. The mid rail doesn’t hurt either. I think the Internet encourages people to find things to rage about, and given the opportunity people can rage about just about anything.

I think anyone doing an honest evaluation would have to agree that these pickups have their own sound. It’s quite a way from any other guitar I have. That’s worth something to me. I accept that it might not be everybody’s favourite sound, probably isn’t even my favourite, but between the dragons on my CU22, my HB and the SAS I could play anything I wanted.

And Santana: really?! How many guitar players have spent years trying to recreate his sound?

 

[Ryan Murphy]

I think the Internet encourages people to find things to rage about, and given the opportunity people can rage about just about anything.

Ive found there is a certain breed of guitarists out there who think if it dosn't sound like a vintage LP or Tele its basically hot garbage.

 

[veinbuster]

Ive found there is a certain breed of guitarists out there who think if it dosn't sound like a vintage LP or Tele its basically hot garbage.

Yup, there are many of them. And lots of guitars for them to play. I’m more likely to talk to them if they respect that not everyone has the same taste, or just one taste.

 

[Ovibos]

I think there's a widely held misconception that guitar companies are great at building guitars but terrible at making pickups, so they all must be replaced.

 

[Wakester]

Why buy a guitar that you don't like the pickups in, and swap them out? Why not just buy a guitar with the pups you like already installed? Oh wait... The cool looking guitar doesn't come with the new boutique pups (that may or may not sound the same as the did in my buddies guitar.)

 

[markd21]

The internet seems to collectively hate the HFS/VB combo and Santana pickups, a negative response is pretty much a given whenever I read about these, and recommendations for replacement is always among the responses.

But.... if you really think about it... what other pickup sets have a more proven track record?

Santana’s Supernatural sold like, twenty million certified copies! And think about all the NuMetal bands.. all those guys with CE’s and CU24’s combined, have to equal another... IDK, 10-15 million more records?

Consider that the HFS/VB combo has been in production for twenty-eight years!!!!

If there’s a “PRS sound”, wouldn’t these be it?

What does the internet know that all these professional musicians don’t? (rhetorical question)

Maybe David Grissom with John Cougar Summercamp or the Dixie Chicks, whatever songs Brent Mason did when he was rockin’ his signature, some of the NuCountry/Bro-country dudes, and when Mark was doin’ Creed approached a portion of those sales but.... why are these pickups so hated on the interweb?

Don’t get me wrong, I do absolutely love my 5*/** pickups and would prefer them for some instances, but for some stuff... my Santana and HFS pickups are the sh!t.

First and foremost I believe you should trust your own ears, however... who you gonna believe when looking for pickup recommendations; the internet or real life?

I am an HFS/VB hater. Well, truth be told, I am good with the VB, I just pretty much hate the HFS. Man, I went through so many PRS guitars, DYING to love them, but finding them a sonic nightmare with my amp/cab.

However, I do agree - if there IS a "PRS sound" it really would be the HFS/VB. I have heard guys, locally, use CU24s with the "old" pickups and they sound AMAZING. I secretly wish I could make the HFS/VB sound like that. That pickup combo seems to KILL with a Boogie amp (generalization, here - I know they work with other rigs too). Boogie amps and I do not get along either, lol.

Having said all that, last time I was rocking HFS/VB pickups I was still playing Rivera amps with EVM speakers. Maybe they would work better with my Bad Cats. Who knows? I probably won't buy a guitar just to find out when I KNOW I can get something with a 57/08 and be 100% satisfied.

 

[jak3af3r]

Don't have experience with Santana pickups but do have HFS/VB. I like the VB plenty but the HFS seems like it needs something unless it's high gain.

I DO really like the in between settings (I have a 5 way blade with rotary switching combinations) particularly when clean. They get that great strat but not a strat tone.

 

[László]

And Santana: really?! How many guitar players have spent years trying to recreate his sound?

I’ve been keeping track: 114,786. Only 3,744 have succeeded. The others all got letters saying, “Please return the hat with the jewel on the front.”

Ive found there is a certain breed of guitarists out there who think if it dosn't sound like a vintage LP or Tele its basically hot garbage.

Hey, on Bizarro World, they’d be right!

I think there's a widely held misconception that guitar companies are great at building guitars but terrible at making pickups, so they all must be replaced.

I’m totally screwed, then.

I am an HFS/VB hater.

I have a sign in my studio that says, “No shirt, no shoes, no HFS/VBs,” but I’m being sued for pickup discrimination. My attorney says we’ll win because the sign doesn’t even make any sense.

 

[Herr Squid]

My theory: it's about the change in tastes in amplification.

When PRS was developing its products and getting established in the market (read 80's-90's), players were either going for the "hot rodded Marshall" or very clean and heavily effected sounds. The PRS pickups of the time worked great for that. When I tried out my '01 Singlecut in the store, I plugged into a Marshall DSL 50 I think, and the #7 pickups in that guitar with that amp sounded so damn good I literally trembled and sweated while I played it. No way was I leaving the store without the guitar after that experience!

The factory tested guitars after assembly with a Mark (something) Boogie up into the 2000s, so that was the benchmark that those guitars and pickups were developed and tested against. Then tastes changed, and the sound of vintage amps with their power sections being pushed hard became the new hotness. And that was the era when PRS players were swapping out their pickups in massive numbers for WCR, Bare Knuckle, Rio Grande, and all the other boutique pickups you could name at the time. Because for that sound, the PRS pickups of the day really weren't that great.

As we know, the 5x/XX pickups turned all that around. Cause they sound really great for pretty much everything. I only own one humbucker-equipped PRS that I haven't put 5X/XX pickups in, and that's because I'd already put some boutique pickups in it that do their own unique thing and are now irreplaceable. No wait, I lied, my '01 SC still has the #7 pickups in it for authentic dirty early 'aughts tones.

To answer your last question, my ears tell me I like the newer pickups better than HFS/VB and Dragon IIs across the board.

The internet seems to collectively hate the HFS/VB combo and Santana pickups, a negative response is pretty much a given whenever I read about these, and recommendations for replacement is always among the responses.

But.... if you really think about it... what other pickup sets have a more proven track record?

Santana’s Supernatural sold like, twenty million certified copies! And think about all the NuMetal bands.. all those guys with CE’s and CU24’s combined, have to equal another... IDK, 10-15 million more records?

Consider that the HFS/VB combo has been in production for twenty-eight years!!!!

If there’s a “PRS sound”, wouldn’t these be it?

What does the internet know that all these professional musicians don’t? (rhetorical question)

Maybe David Grissom with John Cougar Summercamp or the Dixie Chicks, whatever songs Brent Mason did when he was rockin’ his signature, some of the NuCountry/Bro-country dudes, and when Mark was doin’ Creed approached a portion of those sales but.... why are these pickups so hated on the interweb?

Don’t get me wrong, I do absolutely love my 5*/** pickups and would prefer them for some instances, but for some stuff... my Santana and HFS pickups are the sh!t.

First and foremost I believe you should trust your own ears, however... who you gonna believe when looking for pickup recommendations; the internet or real life?

 

[bodia]

Yeah, I don't get it either. I am fine with both HFS/VB and the Santana pick ups. Totally agree with your (and Peter's) take on a ba-jillion players trying to ape Carlos' sound. I like the HFS just fine. I've never removed them from a guitar. I have removed Santana (and 58/15LT) pick ups, but that was only due to having multiples of those models. Ya know; "Man, I've got 4 guitars with the same pick ups. I wonder how one would sound with X?" Nothing against what was in there, just the opportunity for a different flavor. I did, stupidly, replace the D2s in my Cu22 with a 59/09 and 57/08. Guitar still sounds amazing, but there was no reason for me to do that.

 

[BrianC]

Loved the HFS/VB combo but drank the coolaid when the 5708's came out. I ended up with Aldrich pups that are the perfect blend of both for me.The sizzle of the HFS and the clarity of the 08's!

 

[Tonart]

I’m way too busy appreciating the guitar to care about the pickups.

 

[BrianC]

I’m way too busy appreciating the guitar to care about the pickups.

"tone is art" - I agree, and pickups REALLY effect the tone. I agree some people get crazy with gear but it really has an influence on the voice of the guitar.