s2 mud?

[Chiliphil1]

Hey guys, I know I have posted a few threads both griping about and complementing my s2 cu24. Overall I really love the guitar but I had my first opportunity to play live with it tonight and I gotta say this guitar is pure MUD! I have to ask, any other s2 owners notice that the guitar sounds like this? It's just thick, bass heavy, not very articulate. I didn't notice this at practice but live it sounds kinda bad. I am using a line 6 pod xt live through a JCM2000 DSl100, I put this guitar side by side with my SE and the SE beat the pants off the s2, it's kinda frustrating. I wanted to ask if anyone else noticed that the guitar sounded like pooh or if maybe I have an issue with mine? I am seriously thinking about taking the SE pickups and putting them in the s2 and in my opinion there is no reason to even be thinking about that. Maybe something is wrong with the tone pot? I'm lost.

 

[Michael_DK]

I kind of had the same experience with my S2 Singlecut. Maybe. What pickups are in the S2 CU24 - those are s2 hfs+VB, right? The ones in the singlecut are the S2 #7s, so I don't know if that is such a great comparison.

If you like the playability of the S2 and the tone of the SE, then a swap might be the answer. I do understand, however, if you feel like that shouldn't be necessary. that's also why I sent my S2 back.

But I know that many people really dig their S2s, so I don't want to paint a picture of the line as being inferior.

 

[DHW]

Hey guys, I know I have posted a few threads both griping about and complementing my s2 cu24. Overall I really love the guitar but I had my first opportunity to play live with it tonight and I gotta say this guitar is pure MUD! I have to ask, any other s2 owners notice that the guitar sounds like this? It's just thick, bass heavy, not very articulate. I didn't notice this at practice but live it sounds kinda bad. I am using a line 6 pod xt live through a JCM2000 DSl100, I put this guitar side by side with my SE and the SE beat the pants off the s2, it's kinda frustrating. I wanted to ask if anyone else noticed that the guitar sounded like pooh or if maybe I have an issue with mine? I am seriously thinking about taking the SE pickups and putting them in the s2 and in my opinion there is no reason to even be thinking about that. Maybe something is wrong with the tone pot? I'm lost.

You sounded like mud through a Marshall DSL series amp? Isn't your se a cu24? Where you running through the exact same channel modes and effects between the two? If so then they already have the same pickups exactly. If you think there is something wrong with it take it back to where you bought it and get a warranty claim started. I'd look at your amp settings first though. What channel(and which flavor of that channel)? What EQ settings? Resonance setting? Presence setting? Volume? Gain? Tone shift? What cab? Was it mic'd? What mic? PA eq settings? What about that pedal... How was it connected? How were the settings on the effects adjusted?

If you used all the settings on all this stuff that worked for the se in the past then you need to go back and adjust stuff for the s2. Every guitar sounds slightly different and may respond the things slightly different. The pickups, being the same models of the se pickups should not be imparting a night and day difference. That amp sure can though from one to another and responds mightily to changes in the eq. Even the venue itself can affect stuff like that.

 

[Michael_DK]

They are not the same pickups, no... Although they should be ballpark, I guess.

But agreed - first thing to do is to tweak the amp for the guitar if you haven't already. As DHW mentioned, could also be the venue (if it's somewhere you haven't played recently and are used to).

 

[Chiliphil1]

You sounded like mud through a Marshall DSL series amp? Isn't your se a cu24? Where you running through the exact same channel modes and effects between the two? If so then they already have the same pickups exactly. If you think there is something wrong with it take it back to where you bought it and get a warranty claim started. I'd look at your amp settings first though. What channel(and which flavor of that channel)? What EQ settings? Resonance setting? Presence setting? Volume? Gain? Tone shift? What cab? Was it mic'd? What mic? PA eq settings? What about that pedal... How was it connected? How were the settings on the effects adjusted?

If you used all the settings on all this stuff that worked for the se in the past then you need to go back and adjust stuff for the s2. Every guitar sounds slightly different and may respond the things slightly different. The pickups, being the same models of the se pickups should not be imparting a night and day difference. That amp sure can though from one to another and responds mightily to changes in the eq. Even the venue itself can affect stuff like that.

Welp, yes my SE is also a cu24, all settings were exactly the same all I did was change which guitar was plugged in, amp settings are good. I'm running into the clean channel, gain 5, volume 4, bass 4, mid 6, treble 2, presence 1, deep switch in, tone shift switch in. I know my treble is low but if I go any higher it sounds like razor blades. I am running a 1960av cab, it was mic'd but I am just talking about the sound right out of the amp, not through the pa. The pedal is right into the front end of the amp with my wireless going into it, no other effects. I am running a triple rectifier model and trust me, it's dialed.

Here's the thing though, it's not just on my side my other guitar player played it through his amp too and it was the same thing, this guitar sounds like pure mud, even his SE through his amp stepped all over my s2.. It is really bad, when I go home tomorrow I will try to make a short video to give you an idea, I have another gig tonight so I will do it tomorrow afternoon I will put the SE and the s2 head to head in a video so you can see what I mean.

I really appreciate your help on this, oh and as far as the warranty, I order this guitar online through zzounds, do I need to go through them or can I go to any b&m PRS dealer?

 

[Chiliphil1]

Oh, and one other thing I wanted to say, there is an issue with changing the amp to the guitar, as you may know the DSL is extremely sensitive to changes in the knobs and if I change everything over to he s2 when I plug in the SE or any of my other guitars I am going to end up having an ear piercing machine! This is why I got 2 cu24's, so I could have guitars that sounded very similar to back each other up, if I have to re tweak the amp every time I switch guitars, that's just not gonna work. I saw you mentioned above about the slight difference and I get that but trust me, this is night and day.

 

[vchizzle]

Welp, yes my SE is also a cu24, all settings were exactly the same all I did was change which guitar was plugged in, amp settings are good. I'm running into the clean channel, gain 5, volume 4, bass 4, mid 6, treble 2, presence 1, deep switch in, tone shift switch in. I know my treble is low but if I go any higher it sounds like razor blades. I am running a 1960av cab, it was mic'd but I am just talking about the sound right out of the amp, not through the pa. The pedal is right into the front end of the amp with my wireless going into it, no other effects. I am running a triple rectifier model and trust me, it's dialed.

Here's the thing though, it's not just on my side my other guitar player played it through his amp too and it was the same thing, this guitar sounds like pure mud, even his SE through his amp stepped all over my s2.. It is really bad, when I go home tomorrow I will try to make a short video to give you an idea, I have another gig tonight so I will do it tomorrow afternoon I will put the SE and the s2 head to head in a video so you can see what I mean.

I really appreciate your help on this, oh and as far as the warranty, I order this guitar online through zzounds, do I need to go through them or can I go to any b&m PRS dealer?

You need to go thru the dealer you bought it from. Chances are they'd just have you send it back and send you a new one. But you'd have to contact them.

 

[sleary]

Keep I mind the s2 has a maple cap while the se has a veneer . That will change tone as well. Measure both pickup sets from the se to the s2 as well.

 

[sleary]

Could need a pickup height adjustment

 

[DHW]

Keep I mind the s2 has a maple cap while the se has a veneer . That will change tone as well. Measure both pickup sets from the se to the s2 as well.

The SE still has a maple cap, the veneer just allows for the main mass to be non-figured.

Oh, and one other thing I wanted to say, there is an issue with changing the amp to the guitar, as you may know the DSL is extremely sensitive to changes in the knobs and if I change everything over to he s2 when I plug in the SE or any of my other guitars I am going to end up having an ear piercing machine! This is why I got 2 cu24's, so I could have guitars that sounded very similar to back each other up, if I have to re tweak the amp every time I switch guitars, that's just not gonna work. I saw you mentioned above about the slight difference and I get that but trust me, this is night and day.

You should be able to set up presets in your POD for each guitar so you don't have to tweak the knobs on the amp. On my dsl if I drop the treble below 4 every guitar turns to mud. Here are a couple things I would try with that amp though. Turn the tone shift off. With your settings as they are you are fighting yourself. The tone shift boosts treble and bass and cuts mids but you have eq'd in the opposite direction. Cut the presence totally as well as the deep switch. You are at a high enough volume to not need the extra boost, that stuff is there for low volume work. Do everything with the EQ. Get a solid clean tone that you like and then put the pedal into it and season the pedal to taste. Set up presets for each guitar and you should be able to do anything you want. Definitely check the pickup height as was mentioned but do so on both guitars. I have found the PRS setup specs under the support section to be an excellent starting point for the pickup height. Use your tone knobs on the guitars, both of them.

Those dsl amps are treble machines. I have never once had anything that could be considered too much bass out of one but I absolutely HATE everything about that tone shift button and what it does to the sound, way too artificial.

When you start turning knobs take a notebook and write down every setting you changed so you can dial it right back.

Finally, yes you could have an out of spec pot, cap, or even pickup. Tweak some knobs and see what it sounds like and if it's still super bad then contact zzounds and talk to them about it. My daughter and I played 10-15 core line cu24(mix of pickups), several se cu 24, and 4 s2 cu 24(one with 57/08's) between friday night and saturday through 5 different amps and the overall tone was very very very similar between all of them. Being that you have warranty I wouldn't start buying parts until you talk to the vendor you got it from. No sense in spending money you don't have to.

Could need a pickup height adjustment

Excellent suggestion.

 

[Chiliphil1]

Ok, thank you for all that info. I will try everything you said, I want this guitar to sound good so I am not giving up on it! After the show tonight I will have the amp at my house (it usually stays at the practice room) I am going to re tube it so I will have a chance to play with my settings and go from there. I didn't even think of making another patch for the SE DOH! I just started using the tone shift recently, it really had a bad boomy sound without it so that's why I started using the switch but I can stop doing that, I will give a try to the eq and see what happens.. The other guitar player uses a solid state power amp behind a pod 500hdfx so I'm not sure how much I can do with my amp since it still sounded bad through his but I will definitely try.

 

[László]

You're setting the treble very low. Granted that you wanted two similar sounding guitars, but they aren't the same, and even two of the same model can sound different.

For me, it's not much trouble if switching a guitar to simply walk over and turn up the treble knob on an amp, but the idea of a preset on your POD for that is a good idea if you park your amp far away on stage, or have a disability that prevents walking over to the amp.

If the pickups are muddy to you, maybe it'd be a good idea to explore putting in something like a 59/09, etc. They're very open-sounding pickups.

However, most players really do set up their amps for a particular guitar.

 

[justmund]

Does the tone pot (and the rest of the controls) work as expected? Is there a roll off of (more) treble when you wind the tone pot down? How does the sweep compare to your SE?

 

[rugerpc]

You need to set the amp for the guitar you are playing. Expecting to be able to just swap guitars without tweaking is probably unrealistic.

 

[sleary]

I have to tweak my amp every time I switch guitars. Only way to solve this problem is to have two of the exact same guitar.

Cu24 ....needs a bit more bass...59/09
DGT.....bass needs to be turned down.... M pickups
Se cu24..... Needs less treble and more bass ....hfs set

 

[NomadMike]

When gigging I often use an EQ pedal or the tone control on an overdrive (currently BBE Green Screamer or Digitech CM2) with the gain down, especially when switching guitars.

 

[AP515]

...I'm running into the clean channel, gain 5, volume 4, bass 4, mid 6, treble 2, presence 1, deep switch in, tone shift switch in. I know my treble is low but if I go any higher it sounds like razor blades.

It seems to me you're chocking your treble out. That's why it's muddy. The only thing coming through is mids. If the SE sounds good there, that's no guarantee the S2 will. Open up the treble and just see what happens. Also, some amps have way too much treble for me and I'd have to choke them too. Amps with 6L6's do better for me than El84's.

 

[Darkside Six]

I had the same issue with my S2 custom 22 before I did a pickup swap. What helped me a lot was changing the pickup height. Changing the height did a lot for clarity and such. I eventually swapped out the pickups w/ 59/09's, which was a big improvement. One thing I did notice though, I have a fender supersonic 22 running through a 2x12 cab as well as a Marshall DSL 15 combo and even with the 59/09's the DSL sounds really muddy compared to my fender amp. In fact tomorrow I have plans to try and EQ my Marshall to get it to sound better. But changing the pickup height really helped me a lot before the swap. My custom came with #7 pickups stock.

 

[DHW]

I had the same issue with my S2 custom 22 before I did a pickup swap. What helped me a lot was changing the pickup height. Changing the height did a lot for clarity and such. I eventually swapped out the pickups w/ 59/09's, which was a big improvement. One thing I did notice though, I have a fender supersonic 22 running through a 2x12 cab as well as a Marshall DSL 15 combo and even with the 59/09's the DSL sounds really muddy compared to my fender amp. In fact tomorrow I have plans to try and EQ my Marshall to get it to sound better. But changing the pickup height really helped me a lot before the swap. My custom came with #7 pickups stock.

Have you checked the bias on the Marshall? Mine was quite cool from the factory.

 

[Darkside Six]

Have you checked the bias on the Marshall? Mine was quite cool from the factory.

I'm a complete noob when it comes to tube bias... I wouldn't even know how to do that or where to start.