Rig “Design” Ideas?

[aamefford]

I’m thinking of a project.
Background - I have an S2 Studio, a Mesa mkv25 an OG Fryette PS2 and a Pod Go. I originally got the Pod Go to have a one stop shop to learn about pedals. I don’t like the Pod Go mainly from an operational standpoint - my current set up makes it a PIA to plug anything, including the Pod Go to my computer for settings, and I find programming directly on the pod go to be a little tedious. Using a phone or iPad with Bluetooth to operate a device is pretty liberating. This kind of nixes the helix stuff. Oh, I frequently run this stuff into a Behringer Flow 8 mixer, out to Kali powered monitors. The flow 8 has an awesome BT connected app.

Thoughts - start with an Archer or Tumnus Klon klone then into the new Eventide H90, probably in the mesa’s loop, and use the clean or fat clean setting/channel on the Mesa. I believe the H90 is programmable via BT app, and seems to cover nearly every conceivable modulation and time based effect known to man, and then some. It seems like this would cover a lot of ground.

Questions - I’d like to have the option to use the “pedalboard” into the Fryette as an amp and my Mesa 1x12 cab, and stand alone into the powered monitors. It seems for this, I’d need an analog or digital preAmp to go into the fryette, or maybe “amp in a box” pedals? To go straight to the monitors, I’d also need an IR loader, maybe like a captor torpedo or something?

I’d like to hear ideas, specific pieces of equipment, criticism of my current thoughts along with the random and entertaining comments that always arise here. I know this more of aTGP question, but I really prefer the company and discourse here by a long shot. Thanks all!

TL;DR:
Help me build a simple-ish do it all rig…

 

[Rod/]

Simple? Buy an all analog (with nanotube) ,4 channel, reverb 100 watt Amp1. …..3 lbs….. just add your favorite guitar cab
Mercury Edition for blues and rock
Iridium edition for hard rock & Metal

 

[aamefford]

Simple? Buy an all analog (with nanotube) ,4 channel, reverb 100 watt Amp1. …..3 lbs….. just add your favorite guitar cab
Mercury Edition for blues and rock
Iridium edition for hard rock & Metal

Thanks for your response! I had considered the amp1 a while back. It didn’t seem the best bedroom option, though neither is the Mesa. For this exercise, I’m focused in a simple boost/OD, hence my idea of a klone, and good and multiple time based effects, hence my idea of the H90. I already have the Mesa amp (which has a DI out and an acceptable cab sim), and the fryette PS2, which works as an attenuator but does double duty as a 50 watt 6V6 tube power amp. What I’m struggling with, is options if I elect to bypass the Mesa, and go into the fryette (preamp sim?) and then into a cab, or go straight into the the powered studio monitors (amp and cab sim?). Really, the Pod Go will do what I need, but there are ergonomic and set up issues with the Pod Go, as one has to use a computer or the device to do any major set up stuff. The Pod Go can be hindered by processing limitations as well. Last, I’m too old and fat to want to bend over to adjust the pod go in the floor, and setting it on the desk makes the expression pedal kinda useless. As noted, setting up the computer for usb connection is currently cumbersome enough that I don’t use the pod go pretty much ever.

I like the H90 idea based on Bluetooth app control (pretty sure, otherwise this is not as great a solution) and my perception of the high quality of the device. What I lose with this route, is amp / cab sims. I’m really interested in thoughts on or alternatives to the klone and H90, and on options for amp and cab sims/IR loaders and how best to use them.

Discrete pedals are certainly an option, the H90 just seems to cover a lot of ground.

 

[aphantomvaper]

Without knowing anything...perhaps a Bluetooth footswitch would act as a control for the H90. Some have EXP pedal input also. I use a M-Vave Chocolate for something like this but do not have the H90.

 

[Rod/]

Thanks for your response! I had considered the amp1 a while back. It didn’t seem the best bedroom option, though neither is the Mesa. For this exercise, I’m focused in a simple boost/OD, hence my idea of a klone, and good and multiple time based effects, hence my idea of the H90. I already have the Mesa amp (which has a DI out and an acceptable cab sim), and the fryette PS2, which works as an attenuator but does double duty as a 50 watt 6V6 tube power amp. What I’m struggling with, is options if I elect to bypass the Mesa, and go into the fryette (preamp sim?) and then into a cab, or go straight into the the powered studio monitors (amp and cab sim?). Really, the Pod Go will do what I need, but there are ergonomic and set up issues with the Pod Go, as one has to use a computer or the device to do any major set up stuff. The Pod Go can be hindered by processing limitations as well. Last, I’m too old and fat to want to bend over to adjust the pod go in the floor, and setting it on the desk makes the expression pedal kinda useless. As noted, setting up the computer for usb connection is currently cumbersome enough that I don’t use the pod go pretty much ever.

I like the H90 idea based on Bluetooth app control (pretty sure, otherwise this is not as great a solution) and my perception of the high quality of the device. What I lose with this route, is amp / cab sims. I’m really interested in thoughts on or alternatives to the klone and H90, and on options for amp and cab sims/IR loaders and how best to use them.

Discrete pedals are certainly an option, the H90 just seems to cover a lot of ground.

Heck, you’ve already got all the gear you need. I’d put the POD GO on your desk and as @aphantomvaper suggested, get a Bluetooth xpression pedal…..
fwiw, the Amp 1 sounds as good on 1 as it does on 7….Can’t say that for any tube amp.. they’re just to loud at home….Unless you are Les with his studio…. Analog has come a long way with BluGuitar and Hughes and Kettner
Amp1= Quite remarkable, but unless you use pedals for overdrive, it’s very Marshall based in its tones. … Quilter makes some great stuff as well, which is generally more Fender based in its tones

 

[aamefford]

Heck, you’ve already got all the gear you need. I’d put the POD GO on your desk and as @aphantomvaper suggested, get a Bluetooth xpression pedal…..
fwiw, the Amp 1 sounds as good on 1 as it does on 7….Can’t say that for any tube amp.. they’re just to loud at home….Unless you are Les with his studio…. Analog has come a long way with BluGuitar and Hughes and Kettner
Amp1= Quite remarkable, but unless you use pedals for overdrive, it’s very Marshall based in its tones. … Quilter makes some great stuff as well, which is generally more Fender based in its tones

Yeah, probably right. I don’t have a desk in my “corner” at the moment, and I thought the H90 might be a cool way out. Turns out it is not yet IOS / BT compatible. I can rig something up to use the laptop + USB to control the PG. I’m unclear on how to connect a BT switch or Expression pedal. I think the PG does have a jack for EXP though.

 

[Rod/]

Yeah, probably right. I don’t have a desk in my “corner” at the moment, and I thought the H90 might be a cool way out. Turns out it is not yet IOS / BT compatible. I can rig something up to use the laptop + USB to control the PG. I’m unclear on how to connect a BT switch or Expression pedal. I think the PG does have a jack for EXP though.

I stay away from all things digital concerning guitar amps because of odd tones and feel. Had a Kemper and Eleven Rack before that for a while and for recording they were ok. Live, not ok……just not the same as analog. The Amp1 has a Nanotube in the power stage. H&K developed a SS technology that essentially is close..…. They make the AmpMan Classic and Black Spirit 200. Great analog DI outs. Both floor amps that i use as desktop amps as well as an Amp1 on my pedalboard with analog pedals for live performance and recording at other studios. Just plug em into your favorite guitar cab, or none at all and go direct….

 

[aamefford]

I stay away from all things digital concerning guitar tones and feel. Had a Kemper, Eleven Rack for a while… just not the same as analog. The Amp1 has a Nanotube in the power stage. H&K developed a SS technology that essentially is close..…. They make the AmpMan Classic and Black Spirit 200. Great analog DI outs. Both floor amps that i use as desktop amps….

I’ll check those out, again wrt the amp1. I have the Mesa, and the Fryette, so two good tube amps, plus the Fryette is an attenuator/reamp box/DI box. I’m really looking to start with effects without going the route of buying 50 pedals to find 5 I like. That’s why I purchased the Pod Go. It’s just cumbersome enough that it isn’t really delivering for me. The other route I’d considered is a used helix rack and floor, but that is overkill at least until we get the spare bedroom converted from junk room to spare BR / studio.

This discussion has been good. I think I’ll just stay put with what I have for a while and work on making some space for the PG and laptop.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

I’m thinking of a project.
Background - I have an S2 Studio, a Mesa mkv25 an OG Fryette PS2 and a Pod Go. I originally got the Pod Go to have a one stop shop to learn about pedals. I don’t like the Pod Go mainly from an operational standpoint - my current set up makes it a PIA to plug anything, including the Pod Go to my computer for settings, and I find programming directly on the pod go to be a little tedious. Using a phone or iPad with Bluetooth to operate a device is pretty liberating. This kind of nixes the helix stuff. Oh, I frequently run this stuff into a Behringer Flow 8 mixer, out to Kali powered monitors. The flow 8 has an awesome BT connected app.

Thoughts - start with an Archer or Tumnus Klon klone then into the new Eventide H90, probably in the mesa’s loop, and use the clean or fat clean setting/channel on the Mesa. I believe the H90 is programmable via BT app, and seems to cover nearly every conceivable modulation and time based effect known to man, and then some. It seems like this would cover a lot of ground.

Questions - I’d like to have the option to use the “pedalboard” into the Fryette as an amp and my Mesa 1x12 cab, and stand alone into the powered monitors. It seems for this, I’d need an analog or digital preAmp to go into the fryette, or maybe “amp in a box” pedals? To go straight to the monitors, I’d also need an IR loader, maybe like a captor torpedo or something?

I’d like to hear ideas, specific pieces of equipment, criticism of my current thoughts along with the random and entertaining comments that always arise here. I know this more of aTGP question, but I really prefer the company and discourse here by a long shot. Thanks all!

TL;DR:
Help me build a simple-ish do it all rig…

Yo A, into studio monitors versus into a powerful tube, power amp and guitar cabs two very different things. My question is what do you want to use this for specifically? It seems you’ve got a little of this and a little of that and maybe have enough to do this already, but I’m wondering exactly what you want to do with this rig. that might focus the suggestions moving forward

 

[Rod/]

I’ll check those out, again wrt the amp1. I have the Mesa, and the Fryette, so two good tube amps, plus the Fryette is an attenuator/reamp box/DI box. I’m really looking to start with effects without going the route of buying 50 pedals to find 5 I like. That’s why I purchased the Pod Go. It’s just cumbersome enough that it isn’t really delivering for me. The other route I’d considered is a used helix rack and floor, but that is overkill at least until we get the spare bedroom converted from junk room to spare BR / studio.

This discussion has been good. I think I’ll just stay put with what I have for a while and work on making some space for the PG and laptop.

Makes a lot of sense. You’ve got some great gear, might as well figure out how to use it to your benefit….

 

[aamefford]

Yo A, into studio monitors versus into a powerful tube, power amp and guitar cabs two very different things. My question is what do you want to use this for specifically? It seems you’ve got a little of this and a little of that and maybe have enough to do this already, but I’m wondering exactly what you want to do with this rig. that might focus the suggestions moving forward

Hey DTR - Purpose - versatile bedroom rig.

What am I trying to do?

Make something simple into something hard?

1) I’m trying to learn about different types of effects pedals, without going down the long rabbit hole of buying many pedals to learn the half dozen or so that I’ll eventually want on a pedal board, or via multiFx.

2) I’m considering replacing the Pod Go and Laptop with “something” that is a bit more compact and doesn’t require a computer for editing – but a good, stable IOS app would work. I don't want to bend over to adjust the Pod Go on the floor. I suffer from both vertigo and dunlop*. The vertigo is new and annoying. The dunlop is getting better with diet and exercise...

Wants / Needs from the rig:
1) I want to be able to run into my Mesa Mkv25 either into the front or via 4CM and out thru the Fryette (or not) into either the combo 1x10 or a Mesa open widebody 1x12 or via the Cab clone out (speaker switch on the amp off) to a little mixer and powered monitors. This last method works nicely and the volume is easier to adjust, and it doesn't sound like a loud speaker trying to be quiet.

2) I also want to be able to run the pedalboard/multiFX or whatever into the power amp section of the Fryette, as it has awesome volume control, and out to the 1x12. I think this means a preamp, preamp sim or amp in a box type pedal between the multiFX and the Fryette?

3) Last, I want to be able to run the pedalboard/multiFX, whatever it may be, standalone direct into my little mixer and then the powered monitors (essentially like running to FOH live). I think this might mean both amp and cab sims in front of the monitors?

It is pretty unlikely that I’ll end up playing live, but if I do, options 1 or 2 above should cover that.

The Pod Go honestly does all of this just fine. My “Guitar Corner” just isn’t configured to put the Pod Go and laptop in place semi permanently. That said, after all of the discussion here, I think working on the configuration of the space is the better option.

(*Dunlop - when your belly dun lop over your belt buckle)

 

[Deleted member 5962]

Hey DTR - Purpose - versatile bedroom rig.

Ok, I have some thoughts and suggestions but not enough time to write a long post now. Will do maybe this evening.

 

[László]

Thanks for your response! I had considered the amp1 a while back. It didn’t seem the best bedroom option, though neither is the Mesa. For this exercise, I’m focused in a simple boost/OD, hence my idea of a klone, and good and multiple time based effects, hence my idea of the H90. I already have the Mesa amp (which has a DI out and an acceptable cab sim), and the fryette PS2, which works as an attenuator but does double duty as a 50 watt 6V6 tube power amp. What I’m struggling with, is options if I elect to bypass the Mesa, and go into the fryette (preamp sim?) and then into a cab, or go straight into the the powered studio monitors (amp and cab sim?). Really, the Pod Go will do what I need, but there are ergonomic and set up issues with the Pod Go, as one has to use a computer or the device to do any major set up stuff. The Pod Go can be hindered by processing limitations as well. Last, I’m too old and fat to want to bend over to adjust the pod go in the floor, and setting it on the desk makes the expression pedal kinda useless. As noted, setting up the computer for usb connection is currently cumbersome enough that I don’t use the pod go pretty much ever.

I like the H90 idea based on Bluetooth app control (pretty sure, otherwise this is not as great a solution) and my perception of the high quality of the device. What I lose with this route, is amp / cab sims. I’m really interested in thoughts on or alternatives to the klone and H90, and on options for amp and cab sims/IR loaders and how best to use them.

Discrete pedals are certainly an option, the H90 just seems to cover a lot of ground.

I have two H9s, and they're fantastic, so yes, I'd get an H90 in a heartbeat. However, the H90 bluetooth app isn't ready yet. They plan a software update for the pedal as soon as it is.

The H9s also have overdrive algorithms, and while I'm personally not crazy about digital fuzz or distortion, my son really likes the H9 ones, and uses them from time to time, and he's made some pretty serious recordings with his H9, including several projects that earned gold records. So you just never know.

I don't know what's needed to run into a Fryette, other than an amp. This isn't to say it can't be done, it's just due to my lack of info about the Fryette.

If you're using a computer interface to go into an amp plugin or simulation, you don't need to use the Fryette or any preamp for that, most interfaces have an instrument input that oughta work just fine.

I'd try the PRS horsemeat pedal before getting the Klone, simply because it appears to be more versatile than what you get with the Klon type stuff (yes, I've recorded with real Klons and played through any number of them). Might as well have what the Klon does, plus the additional controls and gain on the PRS pedal.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

Hey DTR - Purpose - versatile bedroom rig.

If that means lots of low volume playing, then modeler>powered studio monitors is most common, often best solution. If the POD isn't working because of format, find something that will A) have more screen to work with (Headrush, maybe?) and is more suited to being on the desk, rather than the floor. I'd recommend the Atomic stuff but it almost "needs" a computer to do much preset editing, so mine stay attached to one up to time to gig.

What am I trying to do?

Make something simple into something hard?

So far, so good...

1) I’m trying to learn about different types of effects pedals, without going down the long rabbit hole of buying many pedals to learn the half dozen or so that I’ll eventually want on a pedal board, or via multiFx.

Strongly suggest that if you are trying to learn various pedals, you DO NOT use a modeler or multi-effects unit. I recommend known, simple pedals WITH KNOBS to learn how and what they do. Not wading through menus on a modeler or multi-fx unit. Turn a knob and hear what it does, is the best way to learn, IMO. When I work with new sound guys, I teach them on an analog mixer then move them to digital once they know how to run a mixer. Then, they know what each knob does, and now all I have to do is teach them how to search for and adjust that knob on a screen instead of just reaching up and moving a physical knob or slider.

2) I’m considering replacing the Pod Go and Laptop with “something” that is a bit more compact and doesn’t require a computer for editing – but a good, stable IOS app would work. I don't want to bend over to adjust the Pod Go on the floor. I suffer from both vertigo and dunlop*. The vertigo is new and annoying. The dunlop is getting better with diet and exercise...

Some guys here are fond of the Headrush stuff and it has a big screen per unit size, and I hear it has good on screen/unit editing.

Wants / Needs from the rig:
1) I want to be able to run into my Mesa Mkv25 either into the front or via 4CM and out thru the Fryette (or not) into either the combo 1x10 or a Mesa open widebody 1x12 or via the Cab clone out (speaker switch on the amp off) to a little mixer and powered monitors. This last method works nicely and the volume is easier to adjust, and it doesn't sound like a loud speaker trying to be quiet.

And this is very different than anything above, but amp>power station>mixer>monitors can work (please check me on this, I never unplug speakers from my PS, but make sure it's safe with no load...) and can work with the pedals I mentioned above.

2) I also want to be able to run the pedalboard/multiFX or whatever into the power amp section of the Fryette, as it has awesome volume control, and out to the 1x12. I think this means a preamp, preamp sim or amp in a box type pedal between the multiFX and the Fryette?

A simple pedal that is meant to be an amp sound in a box and can be used direct to PA or in this case, PS, and will take all your pedals in front, will work. Choose fender, vox, marshall, etc.

3) Last, I want to be able to run the pedalboard/multiFX, whatever it may be, standalone direct into my little mixer and then the powered monitors (essentially like running to FOH live). I think this might mean both amp and cab sims in front of the monitors?

The type pedal in my last comment will cover this.

It is pretty unlikely that I’ll end up playing live, but if I do, options 1 or 2 above should cover that.

The Pod Go honestly does all of this just fine. My “Guitar Corner” just isn’t configured to put the Pod Go and laptop in place semi permanently. That said, after all of the discussion here, I think working on the configuration of the space is the better option.

(*Dunlop - when your belly dun lop over your belt buckle)

So, pedals>AIAB pedal>mixer>powered studio monitors OR >PS and guitar cab. Two ways to use that front end rig.

Or, new modeler > studio monitors OR PS and guitar cab. Two ways to use that front end rig.

And, pedals front end (minus AIAB pedal at the end) into Mesa amp> ... well you get it.

 

[aamefford]

If that means lots of low volume playing, then modeler>powered studio monitors is most common, often best solution. If the POD isn't working because of format, find something that will A) have more screen to work with (Headrush, maybe?) and is more suited to being on the desk, rather than the floor. I'd recommend the Atomic stuff but it almost "needs" a computer to do much preset editing, so mine stay attached to one up to time to gig.

So far, so good...

Strongly suggest that if you are trying to learn various pedals, you DO NOT use a modeler or multi-effects unit. I recommend known, simple pedals WITH KNOBS to learn how and what they do. Not wading through menus on a modeler or multi-fx unit. Turn a knob and hear what it does, is the best way to learn, IMO. When I work with new sound guys, I teach them on an analog mixer then move them to digital once they know how to run a mixer. Then, they know what each knob does, and now all I have to do is teach them how to search for and adjust that knob on a screen instead of just reaching up and moving a physical knob or slider.

Some guys here are fond of the Headrush stuff and it has a big screen per unit size, and I hear it has good on screen/unit editing.

And this is very different than anything above, but amp>power station>mixer>monitors can work (please check me on this, I never unplug speakers from my PS, but make sure it's safe with no load...) and can work with the pedals I mentioned above.

A simple pedal that is meant to be an amp sound in a box and can be used direct to PA or in this case, PS, and will take all your pedals in front, will work. Choose fender, vox, marshall, etc.

The type pedal in my last comment will cover this.


So, pedals>AIAB pedal>mixer>powered studio monitors OR >PS and guitar cab. Two ways to use that front end rig.

Or, new modeler > studio monitors OR PS and guitar cab. Two ways to use that front end rig.

And, pedals front end (minus AIAB pedal at the end) into Mesa amp> ... well you get it.

So, it seems I’m sorta headed a good direction. As far as Mesa into the mixer to the monitors, the Mesa has a DI out with a simple cab sim, either open back or closed back. This is slick. The Fryette is for using the combo or outboard speaker, though it will also work as a DI box, but no amp or cap sim.

Your recommendation of discrete pedals is sensible. The Pod Go (multi fx in general) does have a lot of opportunity for choice paralysis. I’ll have to rethink that.

Les made a good recommendation for the horsemeat. I’ll have to gaff tape the name though. The PRS compressor also seems pretty good and simple. It seems like the PRS flanger is sort of overkill. I think waiting on the H90 for a bit makes good sense. I may find I don’t need/want that level of multi in my FX.

So, if I go discrete pedals, start with boost/OD, then maybe reverb, then delay or chorus, then phaser, flanger, other?

Anyway, thanks all. Maybe I’ll give the pod go another go, and branch into discrete pedals from there.

This discussion has helped out a lot so far. I’ll stay tuned.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

I think an H90 might be overkill, and even with a phone app is more menu diving vs. knob turning. When you're trying to get the feel for what various pedals do, and how you want to use them, start with simple ones. Then you can refine that moving forward as you develop your sense of what you like/want/need in the rig.

 

[László]

I think an H90 might be overkill, and even with a phone app is more menu diving vs. knob turning.

On the contrary, it's way different than menu diving. It's all laid out in very easy-to-use and understand terms. simplicity itself, and the greatest PLUS?

No adjusting things down on your hands and knees in front of your amp with the guitar strapped on! Sit on a chair or a stool in your studio, relax, put the phone or tablet on a table next to you, and tweak away. So simple and easy. In fact, I'd call it the opposite of menu diving. You an even do it on a computer instead, if the larger screen appeals to you more.

I'm guessing from your response that you haven't used the app (computer or device) - you really should before offering an opinion on it. It's brilliant.

No BS cables connected to your computer or other device. It's the best use of technology I've ever encountered in a digital pedal. EVER.

I have the feeling I should say "EVER" again and put it in bold letters.

Seems I just did. Anything else anyone who hasn't used the app needs to know, just ask.

 

[aamefford]

So…. Here’s what I’m thinking at this point
Make some room for Pod Go, and hook it up to the Mesa via 4CM, as one can move the loop on the PG, and pretty much run anything into the front end or loop of the amp. Find a nearby spot to set the laptop. Play with th PG, one pedal at a time, so as to limit option paralysis starting with boost / OD and maybe fuzz and compression. Move on to looper and modulation stuff. Then figure out how the boost/OD/fuzz work with modulation. Do my usual CL browsing, and pick up a pedal now and then. Maybe, in a “while” revisit my Jones for the H90 once the IOS app happens and things mature a bit. I agree with the pedals not modeler sentiment while learning, but I just as well use what I’ve got, and the helix models are supposedly very good.

Along with that, I’ll stay tuned here, ‘cause everyone who has posted here has been very helpful.

 

[Toolmaster Of Brainerd]

I highly recommend trying separate pedals. You definitely do NOT need to buy 50 to find the 5 you like. In my case, I bought ~20 to keep 12. Between trying pedals in guitar center and youtube demos, effective purchasing is very doable.

Having physical knobs to turn is really nice. Like, really really nice.

 

[aamefford]

Just thought I’d update:
I sold the Pod Go yesterday. Last week I got a great Craigslist deal on a never used pedalboard combo with a Pedaltrain Novo 18, one spot with 7 outlets on it and some cables. I also ended up buying the guy’s brand new Boss TU-3 tuner, and OS-1 overdrive/distortion combo. I didn’t really want the OS-1, but it was just a great deal. I had bought a Blues Driver on Black Friday from my local shop. One of those “I’m buying something today, and I’ll know what it is when I find it” deals. I had ordered a big muff pi rams head and a Keeley Caverns (canyons? Whichever) before I found the pedalboard, tuner and OS-1. So my slow build was accelerated, at least for version one. I anticipate adding a phaser, looper and some kind of box for going direct to baby mixer and monitors and headphones. Something like the Strymon Iridium. So far, it is working for me where the digital modeler was just option paralysis for me.

To that end, I’m looking for others experience regarding Iridium-like boxes. Amp and cab sims with monitor and HP out. Thoughts?