Rationale for nitro over cellulose vs. poly?

Would’e? said:
Back to playing devil’s advocate a bit: I’m seeing ridiculous things like (woo) the wood “breathing” better with a nitro finish. Just like I know there is no such thing as “god,” I know this is magical thinking. These are all different plastics. I know the finish doesn’t affect tone in any significant way. Maybe I was being slightly disingenuous. Does Paul believe this happy horseschidt? And yes, fixing a nitro ding from breathing hard on the guitar is easer than fixing a poly ding, but breathing hard on the guitar is also not likely to cause a ding on a poly finished guitar in the first place. Yes, I know I am deliberately trying to push buttons here and employing hyperbole, but my opinion is fairly clear that the primary concern with any finish is hardness and durability. I guess I am honestly annoyed at what I perceive as a marketing-driven shift toward using an inferior finish vs. one that provides the only benefit a finish can and should provide.
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I understand your interest in your questioning, but I think you don't seem to have appreciated that you are not comparing the same things - just because they say nitro.
I'm pretty sure you are only really taking about the core line of models with their new CAB nitro finish rather than the various private stock and limited edition nitro options. As has been hinted at here, the new CAB finish is NOT the same thing as an old school vintage nitro finish, it is not as fragile, it doesn't yellow with age and is generally going to be much closer in performance to the older V12/poly finish.
What you seem to be confusing it with is something like the new 'cracking' nitro on the private stock Paul's 85 guitar which is an old school pure nitro finish that has been purposely chosen to age, crack and relic with the guitar. The core line of guitars won't do this
 
RallyFanatic said:
They made the change in 2020 because the new finish was ‘thinner, harder and clearer’. It’s not really like a flash coat that will wear out after a couple birthdays (unless we’re talking the S2 satin nitro which is different all together).

Personally I prefer the feel of good nitro. Poly just feels plastic-y to me. I believe most manufacturers abandoned nitro for poly because of costs, but it is all the retro rage these days.
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How is the S2 satin finish? I’m doing a dealer order and trying to decide on what finish to do.
 
AjCalderon said:
How is the S2 satin finish? I’m doing a dealer order and trying to decide on what finish to do.
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It’s a much different satin to what they use on the silver sky. They use no filler so you can see all the wood grain (which also reduces cost if that’s a consideration). I think it looks great and it wears well over time, basically becoming super smooth on the back of the neck and where your forearm touches the body. It’ll scratch easier but that’s just rock and roll.
 
Xtcclassic said:
It’s awesome, but it’s not the finish for someone who freaks out over the slightest nick or scratch or sign of wear.
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I figured as much. Do you feel like the guitar “breathes” any better with a satin finish? I’ve always liked the look and feel of satin the best but I will say I have one of the new S2 thinline’s and the new Nitro over poly CAB finish doesn’t seem to bug me the way many poly finishes do.

I’m currently thinking of doing a white metallic base with a Grandma Hannon pink pearl layer or a Grandma Hannon pink base with a white pearl layer. These colors would probably “pop” more with a shiny finish instead of a satin but idk I love how smooth satin looks and feels. Hmmm decisions, decisions
 
AjCalderon said:
I’m currently thinking of doing a white metallic base with a Grandma Hannon pink pearl layer or a Grandma Hannon pink base with a white pearl layer. These colors would probably “pop” more with a shiny finish instead of a satin but idk I love how smooth satin looks and feels. Hmmm decisions, decisions
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I do not think metallic or pearl would look very good with the thin open pore satin finish. As there’s no real top coat, you would also have metallic flakes everywhere like Christmas threw up in your music room. You would want something more like the satin finish available on the silver sky for what you describe, which could look cool I suppose.
 
I always seen CAB as a form of escape from V12 for obvious reasons. My new PRS is CAB, my 90's PRS is polyurethane. Both ding same deepness, both resonates beautifully (90's maybe a notch better). I personally have zero issues with polyurethane as long as its done right. Same I have a issue with nitro, getting the guitar stand took me a lifetime and I still check daily for melting marks on my Custom. So far so good
 
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I’m not sure where the OP’s figures came from I.e 70%, 40%, etc etc but I struggle to disagree about the 1% (or notion of 1%) of tone being about the top finish of a guitar.

Furthermore, I just don’t buy into the idea that when your volume is up to ‘11’ and you’re running 5 different effects on top of each other, and you’re sharing the stage with 3, 4, 5 other musicians, and the PA/desk is 50 years old etc that the top coat of your chosen axe is going to make any difference whatsoever!

Yes, there are always ‘those’ people who think they can hear the difference between two different types of tuner buttons or whatever, but ultimately ‘tone’ is completely subjective, so whether they can or can’t hear a difference it’s basically irrelevant anyway.
 
AjCalderon said:
I figured as much. Do you feel like the guitar “breathes” any better with a satin finish? I’ve always liked the look and feel of satin the best but I will say I have one of the new S2 thinline’s and the new Nitro over poly CAB finish doesn’t seem to bug me the way many poly finishes do.

I’m currently thinking of doing a white metallic base with a Grandma Hannon pink pearl layer or a Grandma Hannon pink base with a white pearl layer. These colors would probably “pop” more with a shiny finish instead of a satin but idk I love how smooth satin looks and feels. Hmmm decisions, decisions
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I doubt the difference in tone is noticeable. I do think that nitro finish allows the wood to breathe which might contribute to an increase in tone over the years as the wood ages. Poly finishes basically hermetically seal the wood so I doubt it will age the same, but it’s an open question as to whether it will make much of a difference in 20-50 years. I get the feeling that you’re more of a gloss guy from everything you’re saying. Nothing wrong with that. If visual appeal is a major factor and you don’t dig the way a well-played original 50’s-60’s Strat looks (or you just don’t want your PRS to look like that), get a gloss finish.
 
So I had a 70s Strat that had what seemed like 2 inches of finish on the guitar ( poly ) and it was always a bit flat sounding, sold the guitar to a friend he stripped it and it was a different guitar , same pickups same amps just less finish , the beatles did similar stripping to there 60s epiphones.
I do believe the finish can make a difference BUT all the finishes on my PRS are very thin ( Poly or Nitro ) and to my ear sound great. Im glad PRS keeps pushing the envelope and does not get stuck in the past like G and F brands , I don't always agree with everything that PRS does BUT that seem happy to move on from things as new thing devolop
 
Rider1260 said:
So I had a 70s Strat that had what seemed like 2 inches of finish on the guitar ( poly ) and it was always a bit flat sounding, sold the guitar to a friend he stripped it and it was a different guitar , same pickups same amps just less finish , the beatles did similar stripping to there 60s epiphones.
I do believe the finish can make a difference BUT all the finishes on my PRS are very thin ( Poly or Nitro ) and to my ear sound great. Im glad PRS keeps pushing the envelope and does not get stuck in the past like G and F brands , I don't always agree with everything that PRS does BUT that seem happy to move on from things as new thing devolop
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Fender American Pro I had and sold few months ago had really thin poly coat, this thing was denting and chipping even if you looked at it the funny way. Same time it was the most resonating strat I owned. I will say it again - nitro, polyurethane - no difference if done the right (thin) way
 
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In the late 60s I was playing in a band using a Gibson 1963 n. n on a nitro Gibson and some natural checkering. While I did use finger ease on the fret board I dont recall the guitar being sticky at all. That I would have noticed and disliked.
I still have my 1977 Martin D18 which has a nitro finish. It's not sticky either.
One of the properties of the Martin finish is that it continues to gas off indefinitely producing a thinner richer sounding finish. Or so I have been told.
 
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