Quote from Paul about neck pup relocation

Argus_Floyd said:
to maintain a distance (scale length ) of 25". And if you just made your neck longer by adding on 23rd and 24th frets, you have to make up for that somehow. If bridge stayed where it was even though the neck got longer, then scale length would be longer than 25".
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Rhetorical...
;)
 
Argus_Floyd said:
to maintain a distance (scale length ) of 25". And if you just made your neck longer by adding on 23rd and 24th frets, you have to make up for that somehow. If bridge stayed where it was even though the neck got longer, then scale length would be longer than 25".
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I disagree...
Scale length is scale length, regardless of number of frets or a pickup's position.

Even if you moved the bridge back it would still be a 25" scale length; just with an out-of-position bridge.
Scale length is nut-to-12th fret, doubled.
 
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deathworlder said:
I disagree...
Scale length is scale length, regardless of number of frets or a pickup's position.

Even if you moved the bridge back it would still be a 25" scale length; just with an out-of-position bridge.
Scale length is nut-to-12th fret, doubled.
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if scale length was **only** about the distance btw the nut and 12th fret, so it didn't matter where the bridge was located, then you wouldn't have the problems that come from moving that bridge out of position. Which would be that many of the fretted notes on the fretboard would not be the correct pitch no matter how much you tried to adjust the intonation via the saddle positions. That's not just a theoretical problem. It's actually happened when people not knowing any better, have installed a Neck designed for a 25.5" scale on a guitar body whose bridge has been positioned to support a 24.75" scale. And vice versa.
 
Argus_Floyd said:
if scale length was **only** about the distance btw the nut and 12th fret, so it didn't matter where the bridge was located, then you wouldn't have the problems that come from moving that bridge out of position. Which would be that many of the fretted notes on the fretboard would not be the correct pitch no matter how much you tried to adjust the intonation via the saddle positions. That's not just a theoretical problem. It's actually happened when people not knowing any better, have installed a Neck designed for a 25.5" scale on a guitar body whose bridge has been positioned to support a 24.75" scale. And vice versa.
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I never said bridge position doesn't matter, in regard to intonation; I said as much, by stating "out of position bridge".

Scale length begets bridge position; determined by nut-to-12th fret.
 
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deathworlder said:
I never said bridge position doesn't matter, in regard to intonation; I said as much, by stating "out of position bridge".

Scale length begets bridge position; determined by nut-to-12th fret.
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To claim that scale length is **determined** by the distance btw the nut and the 12th fret, is failure in basic logical thinking, particularly in the concept of Cause and Effect. It's like saying that rust drove the metal and the oxygen to mingle, or the wilted plant forced away the water supply.

It's the guitar builder's choice of scale length that comes first. That then determines the amount of space between each fret on the neck For example, we know that the width of the 1st fret on a 25.5" scale guitar is wider than it is on a 24.75" guitar.

I forgot until I looked back at earlier replies that you are the same person that wrote that your reason for asking why about the bridge position relocation, was rhetorical and out of curiosity about what kind of replies you'd get. And that matches a vibe I've been getting from your replies that your push-back/counter-arguments aren't in good faith. So I'm moving on. Believe what you want about scale length and position of components within that space.
 
Argus_Floyd said:
To claim that scale length is **determined** by the distance btw the nut and the 12th fret, is failure in basic logical thinking, particularly in the concept of Cause and Effect. It's like saying that rust drove the metal and the oxygen to mingle, or the wilted plant forced away the water supply.

It's the guitar builder's choice of scale length that comes first. That then determines the amount of space between each fret on the neck For example, we know that the width of the 1st fret on a 25.5" scale guitar is wider than it is on a 24.75" guitar.

I forgot until I looked back at earlier replies that you are the same person that wrote that your reason for asking why about the bridge position relocation, was rhetorical and out of curiosity about what kind of replies you'd get. And that matches a vibe I've been getting from your replies that your push-back/counter-arguments aren't in good faith. So I'm moving on. Believe what you want about scale length and position of components within that space.
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I did it once...but whatever.

You're assigning meaning to my words that I do not intend; building a straw man.

I'm mostly in agreement with you. The things I am not, I feel you are dead wrong about.

Have a good day.:)
 
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The Bridge pick up is moved ever so slightly forward (towards the neck) but its 'relative' position under the string doesn't change. It's still the same distance from the bridge so sits under the same 'area' of the string and delivers a similar 'tone'

However, the 'Neck/Bass' Pick up is closer to the Bridge than it would be in a 22 fret guitar of the SAME scale. Therefore sits in a 'different' relative area and as such has a different sound. It has a bit more Clarity/note definition in my opinion.

I think its the distance from the Bridge that makes the difference. The closer it is to the Bridge, the 'brighter', the more high end, the further away, the darker/warmer - similar to picking 'near' the bridge is more 'spiky' and over the neck, its a lot softer. Regardless of how they've accommodated Pick-ups within the scale length and the Fret count, it's the distance from the Bridge that matters. Hence a Cu24 Bridge isn't that different from a Cu22 Bridge, but the 'neck' tone is where it differs because the Cu24 Neck Pup isn't as far away from the Bridge as it is for a 22fret Cu24.
 
alantig said:
If you cover the neck pickup, you'll see that the bridge pickup and bridge are stationary.
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László said:
That's so odd, I've seen that before and it always looked like the bridge moved, too. Optical illusion, or perhaps my cataract surgery didn't work out very well...
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I feel like I’m taking crazy pills, that bridge and pickup move.
 
Getting back to the original post's topic, I do find the topic of neck pickup clarity pretty fascinating in-regards to the different approaches PRS has taken.

1) Move the neck humbucker toward the bridge
2) Reduce the width of the humbucker (NFs and TCIs)
3) All of that other tuning stuff like using low turn wiring.
4) Using fatter single coils
 
sergiodeblanc said:
I feel like I’m taking crazy pills, that bridge and pickup move.
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You're correct, the bridge and bridge pickup does move. The problem with that moving diagram posted earlier in this thread is that it's not accurate at this crucial point: when the 23rd and 24th frets get added, the neck itself gets shifted away from the body. The diagram does not show that. Instead, the moving diagram inaccurately shows the neck staying where it is and the 23rd and 24th frets getting added on top of the body. In actuality, the length of the neck on a Custom 24 is made longer than a Custom 22, so that there is room at the end of the neck to fit the 23rd and 24th frets. So the bridge moves forward on the body to keep the nut-to-bridge distance the same btw both models of guitars
(25"). That movement of the bridge and bridge pickup is negated by the neck shifting away from the body, so relatively speaking (i.e. relative to scale length), the bridge and bridge pickup have **not** moved - they both remain abutted to one end of the scale length (i.e. the front of the nut being the other end of the scale length).
 
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Am I off my rocker? The neck pickup does not move. The bridge pickup and bridge moves closer to the neck pickup. That is why if you stand a custom 22 and a custom 24 next to one another the custom 24 is longer. It also pushes the 12th fret into a more ergonomic position for me.
 
Steve Dombroski said:
Am I off my rocker? The neck pickup does not move. The bridge pickup and bridge moves closer to the neck pickup. That is why if you stand a custom 22 and a custom 24 next to one another the custom 24 is longer. It also pushes the 12th fret into a more ergonomic position for me.
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No, I’m not off my rocker. That animation is just incorrect. If you take a custom 24’s neck pickup position, and move it up 2 frets for a custom 22, that pickup would be damn near the edge of the top of the body.

The neck pickup ultimately is closer to the bridge on a 24, but just because the bridge position changes.
 
Steve Dombroski said:
No, I’m not off my rocker. That animation is just incorrect. If you take a custom 24’s neck pickup position, and move it up 2 frets for a custom 22, that pickup would be damn near the edge of the top of the body.

The neck pickup ultimately is closer to the bridge on a 24, but just because the bridge position changes.
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Yep, the animation is incorrect. Also, the Custom 24 neck's is actually longer than the Custom 22's neck. That is so they had room to fit the 23rd and 24th frets onto the neck, vs having those 2 frets added onto the body. That keeps the neck joint design the same btw the Cust 22 and Cust 24. The neck getting longer is also why the bridge and bridge pickup have to move forward, to compensate for the neck getting longer and also not increase the scale length (maintain only 25").
 
If they didn't move the Bridge and Bridge pick-up slightly further forward towards the neck, then the Fretboard with 2 extra frets would push the neck pup more towards the bridge and make the 23rd and 24th frets more difficult to reach/play. A Custom 24 does not join the Body at the SAME fret as a Custom 22 so arguably easier to reach the 22nd fret on a Cu24 than it is on a Cu22 for example...

But in moving the bridge and bridge pick-up slightly further forward, the bridge pick-up is still in the same 'relative' position under the String because the Bridge pick-up is still the same distance from the bridge, same 'field' of string vibration. However that does mean the neck pick-up is placed closer to the Bridge, even if it doesn't move 'relative' to a Cu22. Being closer to the bridge, changes the way the pick up sounds because its now in a different 'field' of the strings vibration. The bridge is where the string 'starts' and the nut (or finger) determines it's end point so that is why the 'same' pick-up will sound 'different' the further from the bridge. Because the bridge and bridge pick up have to move the same distance to accommodate a slightly longer neck and keep the 25" scale, it doesn't change the Distance from the bridge for th bridge pick up so it sounds the same, but it has changed the distance to the neck pick-up and so changes the field it operates under, so will sound different...

Its more to do with the distance from the bridge that will determine how that pick up sounds - so in one sense the Neck Pickup has moved position relative to the bridge and the field of where the string vibrates whilst the bridge remains where it was, but from a practical and physical sense, its the Bridge and Bridge pick-up that has been moved....
 
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