Push/pull in a Santana

D

Davey

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Nov 26, 2018
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Anybody install a push/pull tone pot into a Santana?

I am looking to install a 57/08 neck and 59/09 bridge P/U's and use the PP for coil tap for both P/U's in my Westie.

I am looking at the ACC-4108 PP from PRS and it looks like a taller pot/long shaft and I am not sure if it will fit.
I've searched and I've seen a lot of posts on the SE, but not core models.
Anyone know?

EDIT: I think it'll work. I've got 7/8" clearance above/or below the existing tone pot to the cavity cover and I think the push/pull will fit. It'll be tight for the lead going to the output jack but I think that'll work as well. Wish me luck!
 
Last edited:
Davey said:
Anybody install a push/pull tone pot into a Santana?

I am looking to install a 57/08 neck and 59/09 bridge P/U's and use the PP for coil tap for both P/U's in my Westie.

I am looking at the ACC-4108 PP from PRS and it looks like a taller pot/long shaft and I am not sure if it will fit.
I've searched and I've seen a lot of posts on the SE, but not core models.
Anyone know?

EDIT: I think it'll work. I've got 7/8" clearance above/or below the existing tone pot to the cavity cover and I think the push/pull will fit. It'll be tight for the lead going to the output jack but I think that'll work as well. Wish me luck!
Click to expand...
I haven't installed one in a Santana, but, the DC-22 I have did come with a push/pull tone pot. So, it can be done.
 
I put a push/pull tone pot in my Westy. Its a meticulous job (cramped control cavity) but works great. Pretty sure I used a 500K CTS ‘audio taper’ short-shaft pot from RS Guitarworks.
 
Last edited:
bodia said:
I haven't installed one in a Santana, but, the DC-22 I have did come with a push/pull tone pot. So, it can be done.
Click to expand...

Thanks Jim. Just going to take my time as its pretty cramped.

]-[@n$0Ma☩!© said:
I put a push/pull tone pot in my Westy. Its a meticulous job (cramped control cavity) but works great. Pretty sure I used a 500K CTS ‘audio taper’ short-shaft pot from RS Guitarworks.
Click to expand...

Thanks Hans, After looking around, thats exactly what I went with, the CTS audio taper short shaft and you're right, it is super cramped.
I plan on building it up on a board and soldering everything I can prior to putting it in and then connecting the pickup wiring.
 
Davey said:
Thanks Jim. Just going to take my time as its pretty cramped.



Thanks Hans, After looking around, thats exactly what I went with, the CTS audio taper short shaft and you're right, it is super cramped.
I plan on building it up on a board and soldering everything I can prior to putting it in and then connecting the pickup wiring.
Click to expand...
Solid plan
 
Rockula said:
I removed the standard toggle switch on my Santana SE, and replaced it with an older Custom 24 style rotary switch. Probably the best and most useful guitar mod I've ever made. Only possible by changing the pickups to 4-wire, which is not overly difficult. And not an issue for you.
Click to expand...
Great mod!
 
Rockula said:
I removed the standard toggle switch on my Santana SE, and replaced it with an older Custom 24 style rotary switch. Probably the best and most useful guitar mod I've ever made. Only possible by changing the pickups to 4-wire, which is not overly difficult. And not an issue for you.
Click to expand...

^This is a great mod as bodia stated.

I am still looking at wiring diagrams and gathering up everything I need.
I am still contemplating 1 push pull for both pickups or 2 push pulls to work independently for each pickup.
 
Davey said:
^This is a great mod as bodia stated.

I am still looking at wiring diagrams and gathering up everything I need.
I am still contemplating 1 push pull for both pickups or 2 push pulls to work independently for each pickup.
Click to expand...

Well, it comes down to what coil combos you think you'll need. The original rotary switch setup has two positions which run one coil from each pickup in parallel, and I use both of those positions a lot. One of them is outside coils in parallel, and the other is inside coils in parallel. You could not get both of those options with a single push-pull, because you need to be able to select either the inner or outer coil of each pickup. To do that with two push-pulls, one would have to select the outside coils of both pickups, and the other would select the inside coils of both pickups. That would be a pretty unusual setup.

The 5-way blade setup is different. In positions 2 and 4, it uses a full humbucker plus one coil from the other pickup. (I'm pretty sure that's correct.) In that case, you could use a single switch to select a split coil from both pickups.

So, you have to decide which of those tones is what you're after. Probably not an easy thing to do without actually playing them. So you might have to get creative with alligator clips and wires on your own.
 
I took a look at this thread:

https://forums.prsguitars.com/threads/prs-wiring-mods-resource-thread.45759/

So I was wrong about the current 5-way switch configuration. Position 4 uses split coils from both pickups. Meaning a single push-pull switch would not be able to give you all 5 of the selections you can get with the 5-way selector switch. That's because you need both pickups in split mode in position 4, but you need the bridge pickup in HB and the neck in split mode in position 2.

This stuff gets surprisingly confusing. Maybe that's one of the reasons I like the rotary selector mod on my Santana SE; it gives me 5 great sounding selections, and not a lot to think about.
 
Rockula said:
Well, it comes down to what coil combos you think you'll need. The original rotary switch setup has two positions which run one coil from each pickup in parallel, and I use both of those positions a lot. One of them is outside coils in parallel, and the other is inside coils in parallel. You could not get both of those options with a single push-pull, because you need to be able to select either the inner or outer coil of each pickup. To do that with two push-pulls, one would have to select the outside coils of both pickups, and the other would select the inside coils of both pickups. That would be a pretty unusual setup.

The 5-way blade setup is different. In positions 2 and 4, it uses a full humbucker plus one coil from the other pickup. (I'm pretty sure that's correct.) In that case, you could use a single switch to select a split coil from both pickups.

So, you have to decide which of those tones is what you're after. Probably not an easy thing to do without actually playing them. So you might have to get creative with alligator clips and wires on your own.
Click to expand...

Thanks Rockula for the info.
I have a couple PRSi with a rotary and a couple with the 5 way switch, but I won't be changing to a rotary or 5 way switch as I am sticking with the original 3 way toggle.
It is just coming down to if I want to have both pickups on one push/pull together or go one step further and have them on their own push/pull and work independently of one another.
I am leaning the latter.
 
I Have the 5 way rotary in my C 22- love the combo of tones, but I also like the toggle and push pulls on the Private stock! Versatility and tone variety baby!! I have the same push pull and toggle on a Les Paul Grand Touring edition as well with P498/490 combo- the sound is incredible- very solid classic rocker guitar.
 
So a couple months ago, I bought one of those FreeWay toggle switches. Looks like a standard Gibson-style 3-way toggle, but it actually has 6 positions. I bought a special version from a guy in the UK who has gets them custom made at the factory to do PRS type selections. I'm waiting on my brother to send me a Les Paul, which I'll use to test that switch. Lots of potential options. I suspect that I'll arrive at a favorite configuration for that, then put the same thing in most or all of my 2 HB guitars. Les Paul, PRS, SG, 335, everything.

I've had a Fender Flame (think double cutaway Les Paul) for over 30 years with 4 separate switches for coil splits, series/parallel, and phase. I tend not to use either pickup on its own split to a single coil. Those just always sound too lackluster to me, at least compared to a Fender type single coil or a P90 in something else. I think it just comes down to the focus of the magnetic fields being so different. I don't use series very much either, because I don't go looking for a huge power boost very often. But phase can be intriguing. And I really, really like those PRS combos. Thus my interest in putting all my favorite choices on a single switch.

Having said that, I have one PRS with Fishman Fluence Classics in it. It's fun to mess around with, but it's also silly. I wired it for 2 voices for each pickup, I can select either split coil on each pickup, I can select a top end "tilt" for each. But I seem to end up using it mostly in full HB modes, and maybe just change the voice switches from time to time.
 
I pull out both pots on my 2016 McCarty and put in 2 push push for an independent coil split. Love to have a little more variety available.
 
If my fuzzy memory is correct, back around 86 or so, there was a company that sold a digital replacement pickup switch for Strats that was pretty interesting. You ran all your pickup leads to it, then more or less programmed what you wanted each switch position to do. It got stored in some form of memory on the switch itself. I think you had to keep a battery in the switch, which would have been a huge pain to replace, since it was under the pickguard. But, you could assign any weird thing you wanted. Like maybe the middle switch position would be the neck and bridge pickups in series or something.

That's kind of what we need now. Some form of logic-controlled switching whereby each player can choose exactly what they want, rather than wading through endless wiring diagrams all over the net to try to come up with just the right hard-wired setup. Not to mention troubleshooting it all after you've accidentally soldered a wire to the 17th terminal rather than the 19th.

The obvious problem with this idea is that the device would have to handle the switching without degrading the signal passed through it. It's pretty easy to engineer that kind of switching with ICs, but there would be a whole new world for the signal-purity faithful to object to.
 
Going to go in a different direction. I couldn't mess with the Westie.

Now I need to find something to put the uncovered 57/08 and 59/09 in.....:)
 
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