PRS SE CUSTOM 24 (2012 MODEL) INTONATION ISSUE

[Silverhawk202]

Hi there!

So I have been trying to setup my PRS SE custom for a few days now. First timer doing the intonation stuff, and first time working with the PRS bridge, I have worked on Floyd Rose locking bridge before. I've read a bunch of posts on this thread that were somewhat helpful but I still cannot intonate my guitar.

1. I adjusted the truss rod to give the neck adequate relief (business card sliding length) once capo'd on first and fretted on last fret and checked between 10th fret.
   • Also checked 8th fret as per PRS se setup guidelines .010 measurement, its almost if not a little less than that amount.
2. I adjusted the bridge 6 screws, to make sure they were aligned and in the notches (Can provide pic). The bridge is now roughly 1/16" height above body.
   • It appears it was not done when I first bought the guitar back in Dec 2012.
3. The saddles were adjusted and brought down to match the recommended height.
   • Checked strings and the treble side being 2/32" E/B/G strings at 12th fret from bottom of string to top of fret.
   • Eye balled the radius curve and it looks alright. isn't as vivid as was before, more subtle now. Bass side slightly above 2/32. Followed an old PRS setup vid on YouTube.
   • Saddles are as far as I can see parallel to the bridge and not tilted, took a lot of eyeballing and hours to make certain that was right.
4. The tremolo claw was adjusted and appears straight and has the bridge parallel to the body.
5. Tried to intonate against the 12th fret harmonic and 12th fret octave note.
   • This does not work.
   • Ran out of space on low E saddle, pushed forwarded and adjusted height and brought saddle down a bit more, still not much luck.
   • A string intonation is fine. After bringing it towards tail end of guitar when sharp.
   • The rest of the strings do not intonate either even if I move the respective saddles.
6. Adjusted pickup height on low E string just a tad after fretting the 24th to accurately measure from above pole piece on pickup.
   • It is about 3/32 on bass side. did not make a difference in intonation of strings.
7. I tightened the tuning peg screws a bit too. It is a bit difficult to get some strings to the 0 cent point in the tuner.

Could there be a bridge spring issue? but if there was wouldn't the bridge not be parallel?

What could be my issue here? I did read somewhere that open string and fretted note could be an alternative to intonation setup and therefore tried that on one string and it worked. But the harmonic was off. Please let me know if pics are required and what angles. I also use 10 -42's on my PRS. Also I did not use a block between the bridge when setting up, it seemed to return to normal several times and had plenty of screw space. Let me know if that might be an issue?

Also I use my apollo twin interface and logic pro's built in tuner to check tuning.

Thank you much!

 

[bluenova]

Tune the open string. Fret the string at the 12th fret and see if it's flat or sharp. If the fretted note is flat shorten the string length. If sharp lengthen the string.

The 12th fret harmonic will read the same as the open string regardless of where the saddles are set.

 

[Silverhawk202]

The 12th fret harmonic will read the same as the open string regardless of where the saddles are set.

This does not happen actually. The Open string and 12th fret harmonic are not the same. I can match the open 12th to the fretted 12th no problem by intonation but the harmonic will not match.

 

[bluenova]

Open string and 12th fret harmonic should basically read the same on the tuner, the harmonic just being a note that is an octave higher. You can use either to compare to the fretted note which is the note you have the capability to adjust at the saddle.

 

[Silverhawk202]

Open string and 12th fret harmonic should basically read the same on the tuner, the harmonic just being a note that is an octave higher. You can use either to compare to the fretted note which is the note you have the capability to adjust at the saddle.

I will give this a go again, however now I am wondering if something could be wrong with the pickups. I did use steel wool to clean the frets and a bit got magnetized on the pick but i vacuumed and removed it all and the pickups sound fine. Could it be? but then the A string wouldn't intonate if that were the case right?

 

[bluenova]

That won't affect the intonation.

 

[AP515]

The open E and the fretted E are the two one uses to set intonation. I don't use the harmonic but I suppose I could. All you are doing is removing the octave lower tone. Be sure not to push too hard on the string when you fret at the 12th. If you do you will make it go sharp and that may be why you ran our of travel.

 

[Silverhawk202]

The open E and the fretted E are the two one uses to set intonation. I don't use the harmonic but I suppose I could. All you are doing is removing the octave lower tone. Be sure not to push too hard on the string when you fret at the 12th. If you do you will make it go sharp and that may be why you ran our of travel.

alright i'll give it another go and see how it works out. Thanks.

 

[Silverhawk202]

Open string and 12th fret harmonic should basically read the same on the tuner, the harmonic just being a note that is an octave higher. You can use either to compare to the fretted note which is the note you have the capability to adjust at the saddle.

so, you are right the Open string is in line with the open harmonic, except its only on strings 1-5. The E-string is off, even if i tune the string properly and I check the open harmonic on the low E string it is flat. and the E-string is struggling to stay in tune, its not precise to the exact cent. What could be the issue here?

I am going to attempt to intonate the rest of the strings and let the low E just be, will see how it goes.

 

[bluenova]

so, you are right the Open string is in line with the open harmonic, except its only on strings 1-5. The E-string is off, even if i tune the string properly and I check the open harmonic on the low E string it is flat. and the E-string is struggling to stay in tune, its not precise to the exact cent. What could be the issue here?

I am going to attempt to intonate the rest of the strings and let the low E just be, will see how it goes.

I would adjust that one based off the open note. The harder you pluck the string the sharper the note begins and moves slightly flatter as it sustains out. Since more playing is done on the open string compared to open harmonics that's what I'd personally use. Just watch that you're not plucking too hard while adjusting this string.

 

[Silverhawk202]

I would adjust that one based off the open note. The harder you pluck the string the sharper the note begins and moves slightly flatter as it sustains out. Since more playing is done on the open string compared to open harmonics that's what I'd personally use. Just watch that you're not plucking too hard while adjusting this string.

so i've tried all this, its not intonation at all, and i'm noticing the tuning stability is off on the whole guitar, the G is really bad. I'm starting to think its the 6 screws on the bridge i adjusted and that the they are still not sitting in the notches against the knife-edge.

 

[bluenova]

so i've tried all this, its not intonation at all, and i'm noticing the tuning stability is off on the whole guitar, the G is really bad. I'm starting to think its the 6 screws on the bridge i adjusted and that the they are still not sitting in the notches against the knife-edge.

Make sure the strings are free in the nut, especially if you've changed from 9's.

 

[Silverhawk202]

Make sure the strings are free in the nut, especially if you've changed from 9's.

need to figure out how to do this, but in the meantime there are some photos here of the bridge and saddle. Let me know if you see anything funky, particularly the low E string screw.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2pDLwTZricCei1lYnZ4MlF1dVk

 

[bluenova]

If you bend a string and it returns flat, or you push the string behind the nut and it returns sharp, or if the tuning jumps instead of moving smoothly while you turn the tuning pegs, or if the strings ping while you tune can all be some of many different signs of strings binding up in the nut. Obviously we can never reach zero friction but the strings should at least return very close to pitch.You'll have to widen the slots a little if the strings are indeed too tight in the nut.

Only see a headstock pic in your link, no bridge.

 

[Silverhawk202]

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If you bend a string and it returns flat, or you push the string behind the nut and it returns sharp, or if the tuning jumps instead of moving smoothly while you turn the tuning pegs, or if the strings ping while you tune can all be some of many different signs of strings binding up in the nut. Obviously we can never reach zero friction but the strings should at least return very close to pitch.You'll have to widen the slots a little if the strings are indeed too tight in the nut.

Only see a headstock pic in your link, no bridge.

Sorry this is the correct link, https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2pDLwTZricCT2tJeno0TFNBRkU

also a friend helped me with intonation, what he did was not really worry about getting the guitar into tune at the exact cent, and then it was intonated. is that correct? One thing we did notice however the low E string is hitting the first fret when played open. So I assume the neck needs a slight adjustment as the relief between the 8th fret is just less than .010 But i'm gonna have to readjust it once I adjust the truss rod.

 

[bluenova]

The pics look good, everything looks like it's "supposed to" in those pics. Guitars are inherently not perfect so when setting intonation you are really getting as close as you can but it will never be exactly to the cent perfect. I like my necks almost completely straight with just enough relief to know it's not backbowed. If the buzzing can't be heard through the amp I would just leave it alone personally. A little buzz heard acoustically is perfectly normal. If it's bad enough to be super annoying and the neck relief is good and the action height is reasonable and the frets are level then ideally you'd need a new nut cut to raise the string about half a frogs hair.

 

[RonHal]

I had a problem with setting the intonation on my Custom 22 w/trem. This is what I do, maybe someone can explain why? I tune up all six strings to pitch.
Then I push down on one string at a time between the saddle and pickup. Seems to seat the string, intonation is perfect. FYI, I use a hybrid set of strings
and there is no buzz any where on the board.

 

[Mike Yount]

When I got my Se cu 24 the low E was binding in the nut and every time I checked tuning it was different. I took a nut file and widened it just a bit and no more issues.