PRS S2 Series - USA Built!!! For $1179!!!

Em7 said:
If anyone has a right to complain, it's me! The resale value for my Mira Korina just plummeted. :laugh:

The good news is that I have no intention of selling my Mira Korina. It's my favorite PRS. Miras rock! :rock:
Click to expand...

I think it's time to add the term "Pre S2" to the PRS lexicon.

***FOR SALE: !!!RARE!!! PRE S2 MIRA KORINA***
 
A couple of quick snaps..

NOT FOR SALE 2008 "Pre-S2" Mira Maple:

mira1.jpg


Blue Moon on a Blue Mira...

mira2.jpg
 
I notice that GuitarGuitar have them listed at £1250. I will reserve final judgement but for £1250 I'd beexpecting a VERY nice guitar with some quality hardware on it and made fromsome quality wood. That sort of money will get you a very well equipped and andvery well made Japanese guitar and frankly, I'd be expecting something even betterthan that from PRS for that kind of money. Why? Because having had a JapaneseJackson and a Korean PRS SE, I found that there honestly wasn't much in it.

Finish - Equal
Electronics - Equal as I felt the need to change pots etc. in both ofthem
Pickups - I paid more for the ones in the Jackson as they were SeymourDuncan but the stock PRS pickups were very good. I actually preferred the PRSpickups but in reality, neither were really good enough and needed Bare Knuckles. I effectively paid a bit more for the Jackson pickups but there was no real advantage.
Bridge - OFR on the Jackson was quality but also simply different. Tremon my PRS SE is still very good and better than any Fender trem I've tried
Neck - A tad better on the Jackson but not massively different.
Tuners - Much of a muchness in operation and for tuning stability, a bitacademic as the Jackson was locked down but I've had no major issues with thePRS. It holds tune very well.
Woods - The rosewood on the fretboard of the Jackson was of noticeablybetter quality, though the PRS resonated and sustained better.

I have had absolutely no qualms whatsoever about selling the Jackson andgetting another SE because I honestly don't see it as a step down. To me, the£400-£500 extra I had to pay for the Jackson over a PRS SE at that time wasdown to an OFR I no longer need and Seymour Duncan pickups that I found to beworse than the stock PRS items! Remove those two items and we're down to betterquality rosewood. Nice, but for the extra I paid I could almost have bought asecond PRS SE and for me, that makes the SE range astonishingly good value.Don't get me wrong, the Japanese Jackson was a fantastic guitar but that's my point; sois the PRS SE. In my experience, it does stand comparison to Japanese madeguitars and while I realise it's not made at a PRS factory, they must have ahand in the quality control and selection of materials because the SE range isstreets ahead of any other Korean guitar I've owned or tried. Having owned aMexican Strat, I'd say it's easily better than those too and not a poke in theeye away from the quality of an American Fender, or at least, any of theAmerican Fenders I've tried over the years.

I have two PRS SE Custom 24 guitars now and once I've changed the pots, capsand pickups, there's honestly nothing else I find I really want to alter. Indue course the nuts will be upgraded but I'm not in a rush to really doanything else. The essence of the problem for me with the S2 is that it seems to me that I'd pay nearly twice as much for an S2 than an SE andother than the nut, still have to make the same changes so exactly why should Ibother?
 
Slartibartfarst42 said:
I have two PRS SE Custom 24 guitars now and once I've changed the pots, capsand pickups, there's honestly nothing else I find I really want to alter. Indue course the nuts will be upgraded but I'm not in a rush to really doanything else. The essence of the problem for me with the S2 is that it seems to me that I'd pay nearly twice as much for an S2 than an SE andother than the nut, still have to make the same changes so exactly why should Ibother?[/COLOR]
Click to expand...

Did you read the specs because thats not the case. The S2 line has all of those parts upgraded including tuners, bridges (sans CU24), pickups, pots and nuts. Also - all of the wood is made from the Maryland wood supply, just like any high end production model.
 
Slartibartfarst42 said:
The essence of the problem for me with the S2 is that it seems to me that I'd pay nearly twice as much for an S2 than an SE andother than the nut, still have to make the same changes so exactly why should Ibother?
Click to expand...

You make some good points in your post about how high quality the SE line is, and I think the answer to the question you post at the end is simply to wait and see how the S2s turn out.

The SEs are wonderful instruments, no doubt about it. Not to take anything away from how nice they are, but I've found over the years that the US PRSes have more character, and for lack of a better word, "vibe" when I play them. I wish I could come up with a better explanation.

By character and vibe, I mean, how the guitar sounds.

I don't expect the S2 line to look better than the SEs. But my guess (just a guess) is that they will have more of that character that makes the US line so great. We shall see!

In the end, whatever speaks to you as a player is the thing that's important! If you end up still preferring the SE models, I think PRS will still be pretty darn happy to sell you another one, and have you as a customer.
 
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Slartibartfarst42 said:
I notice that GuitarGuitar have them listed at £1250. I will reserve final judgement but for £1250 I'd beexpecting a VERY nice guitar with some quality hardware on it and made fromsome quality wood. That sort of money will get you a very well equipped and andvery well made Japanese guitar and frankly, I'd be expecting something even betterthan that from PRS for that kind of money. Why? Because having had a JapaneseJackson and a Korean PRS SE, I found that there honestly wasn't much in it.
Click to expand...


You seem to have an axe to grind with PRS. You need to point the finger at the real culprit; namely, your country's tax policies and bloated supply chain costs. You pay fifty percent more than Americans pay for the same guitar. Instead of demanding that a U.S. company engage in global labor arbitrage to meet your price points, you should be questioning why your tax and supply chain costs are so high. PRS is a socially responsible company that does its best to take care of its employees and give back to the community in which it operates.

By the way, all but the ultra-high-end Japanese guitars sport figured veneers instead of full-thickness figured maple tops. My '92 FujiGen-manufactured Ibanez S540 is a nice guitar (equivalent to a modern day Ibanez Prestige S5470), but it has a scarf-joined headstock and a figured veneer top and back. The modern-day equivalent of the guitar shown below retails for significantly more than the top of the line S2 in the United States.


'92 Ibanez S540 (FujiGen Factory)

ibz-assembled.jpg



Body (one can clearly see that the figured maple top is a veneer)

ibz-guitar-body.jpg




Original Wizard Neck (one can clearly see the scarf joint to the right of the locking nut screws)

ibz-back-2.jpg
 
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Em7 said:


You seem to have an axe to grind with PRS. You need to point the finger at the real culprit; namely, your country's tax policies and bloated supply chain costs. You pay fifty percent more than Americans pay for the same guitar.
Click to expand...

I have no axe to grind at all; I think PRS are wonderful guitars, which is probably why I have two of them and you are certainly right that taxes are a major issue here. You'd normally expect the price in Sterling to be a bit lower than US Dollars so $1179 where you are should equate to about £900 here and at that, I'd give one serious consideration. I realise that pots, caps, tuners and trems may be better than on the SE models but from everything I've read, they're certainly not US specs and anyway, pots and caps are invariably so poor on stock guitars that I always now change them to Bare Knuckle items and I don't find anything wrong with the tuners and trem anyway so they're not an issue to me. Much the same can be said of stock pickups. As I said, I liked the SE pickups better than the Seymour Duncans in my Jackson. They were easily the best stock pickups I've ever tried, which is why they stayed in the guitar for several months (unheard of for me) before I switched them to Bare Knuckle.. The same isn't true of the new one, which I haven't even really played yet and I've already ordered Bare Knuckle pickups, pots and cap.

As with many things, total accuracy probably lies somewhere in the middle. To read some of the posts here you'd think the S2 range was a US PRS that was made cheaper without actually cutting any corners and that plainly isn't the case. A lot of the hardware may be slightly better than SE materials but they'll still be a long way short of a proper US PRS and I'd bet exactly the same goes for the woods. PRS have NOT said it's the same Maryland woods, in fact they've quite clearly said they'll be using a cheaper option. Maybe as Americans, many on here, quite naturally, are a little too enthusiastic about a new American PRS and I understand that but that just doesn't affect me. However, equally, I'd happily admit that my own view of the S2 range is naturally tainted by the extortionate price we have to pay over here due to the taxes we need to fund things like the NHS.

Perhaps it's more accurate to say that while the S2 line is a worthy addition to the PRS range (and I genuinely believe that is the case), it will probably fare rather better in America than it will here due to cost. At about the £850-£900 mark I'd be very very interested indeed but at £1250 it's just far too expensive and that's a real shame.
 
Slartibartfarst42 said:
I like the idea well enough :pand I bet I'll like the guitars :D, I'm just not struck on the price point it's set at here :eek:
Click to expand...
I think that's a fair statement. Not sure you can speak for the entire UK but (1) your opinion and (2) sharing what works for you, or does not, is welcome here.
 
Slartibartfarst42 said:
I notice that GuitarGuitar have them listed at £1250. I will reserve final judgement but for £1250 I'd beexpecting a VERY nice guitar with some quality hardware on it and made fromsome quality wood. That sort of money will get you a very well equipped and andvery well made Japanese guitar and frankly, I'd be expecting something even betterthan that from PRS for that kind of money. Why? Because having had a JapaneseJackson and a Korean PRS SE, I found that there honestly wasn't much in it.

Finish - Equal
Electronics - Equal as I felt the need to change pots etc. in both ofthem
Pickups - I paid more for the ones in the Jackson as they were SeymourDuncan but the stock PRS pickups were very good. I actually preferred the PRSpickups but in reality, neither were really good enough and needed Bare Knuckles. I effectively paid a bit more for the Jackson pickups but there was no real advantage.
Bridge - OFR on the Jackson was quality but also simply different. Tremon my PRS SE is still very good and better than any Fender trem I've tried
Neck - A tad better on the Jackson but not massively different.
Tuners - Much of a muchness in operation and for tuning stability, a bitacademic as the Jackson was locked down but I've had no major issues with thePRS. It holds tune very well.
Woods - The rosewood on the fretboard of the Jackson was of noticeablybetter quality, though the PRS resonated and sustained better.

I have had absolutely no qualms whatsoever about selling the Jackson andgetting another SE because I honestly don't see it as a step down. To me, the£400-£500 extra I had to pay for the Jackson over a PRS SE at that time wasdown to an OFR I no longer need and Seymour Duncan pickups that I found to beworse than the stock PRS items! Remove those two items and we're down to betterquality rosewood. Nice, but for the extra I paid I could almost have bought asecond PRS SE and for me, that makes the SE range astonishingly good value.Don't get me wrong, the Japanese Jackson was a fantastic guitar but that's my point; sois the PRS SE. In my experience, it does stand comparison to Japanese madeguitars and while I realise it's not made at a PRS factory, they must have ahand in the quality control and selection of materials because the SE range isstreets ahead of any other Korean guitar I've owned or tried. Having owned aMexican Strat, I'd say it's easily better than those too and not a poke in theeye away from the quality of an American Fender, or at least, any of theAmerican Fenders I've tried over the years.

I have two PRS SE Custom 24 guitars now and once I've changed the pots, capsand pickups, there's honestly nothing else I find I really want to alter. Indue course the nuts will be upgraded but I'm not in a rush to really doanything else. The essence of the problem for me with the S2 is that it seems to me that I'd pay nearly twice as much for an S2 than an SE andother than the nut, still have to make the same changes so exactly why should Ibother?
Click to expand...

So it seems the SE compares favorably with the Jackson.

Now take an S2 Custom compared to SE:

Finish - Superior (same as pre-V12 Maryland guitars)
Electronics - Superior (same as Core Maryland guitars)
Pickups - Remains to be heard, but I suspect superior (subjective to the individual, anyway)
Bridge - equivalent
Neck - Depends on what you like, but S2 Regular profile vs. Wide/Thin on the SE
Tuners - Will remain to be seen, but superior on paper
Woods - Superior (Maryland stock woods; genuine figured top, no veneer)

And...
Nut - Superior (same as Core)
Build Quality - Superior (Stevensville craftsmen/women and quality control)
Gig bag - looks equivalent (which is a really nice gig bag anyway)


So, to make a long story short, the S2 appears superior to the SE in many ways. And like Hans said, we don't have to like them all. But it seems like some people are just looking for reasons to dislike the new guitars even though no one outside of the inner PRS circle has even SEEN one in person, let alone PLAY one.
 
This is true but I think the price is a real issue here in the UK. I've noticed that the response to the S2 is very different on British forum sites and from British posters. I spoke to a friend who has about £1000 (ish) budget for a guitar now and I know he's been researching them as a possible purchase but so far he just doesn't see the extra money in them. Like me and a lot of people I know, he loves the idea but the price is an issue in the UK. I think this is down to a perception of just how extensive the changes are and as you point out, that cannot be certain by anyone at the moment but in the USA, you certainly have the advantage of a more realistic price.

Finish - Superior (same as pre-V12 Maryland guitars) That remains to be seen.
Electronics - Superior (same as Core Maryland guitars) That also remains to be seen. What's been said so far by PRS is quite ambiguous.
Pickups - Remains to be heard, but I suspect superior (subjective to the individual, anyway) I would agree, but that doesn't mean they're great pickups and if I still feel the need to change them, they offer no practical advantage.
Bridge - equivalent Fair enough
Neck - Depends on what you like, but S2 Regular profile vs. Wide/Thin on the SE I prefer the wide thin but I agree that's entirely subjective.
Tuners - Will remain to be seen, but superior on paper Agreed, though I suspect any difference will be marginal.
Woods - Superior (Maryland stock woods; genuine figured top, no veneer Superior to SE woods? Quite possibly. The same as the Maryland woods on the core PRS range? Absolutely not based on what they've said - "we have chosen the same traditional tone woods that are used on PRS Core guitars, such as maple tops, mahogany backs and bodies, mahogany necks, and rosewood fretboards. While some of the design and construction methods used in the S2 Series (the neck blank’s starting dimension across the Series and the S2 Custom’s wood grade, for example) allowed us to use less expensive and more readily available woods". The first bit of that says nothing more than the fact that they're using mahogany bodies and on that basis you could say the same thing about the SE range. The second half of that statement is quite explicit that they're using cheaper options and not the same wood as the core guitars. Now I have no problem with that at all. Unless you're living in cloud cuckoo land they'd have to use a cheaper option in order to undercut the core range by at least £1000. Personally, I'd guess that the top is different and has more than a veneer but the back wood may simply be SE for all it says here.

And...
Nut - Superior (same as Core) Agreed. Good upgrade
Build Quality - Superior (Stevensville craftsmen/women and quality control) I'd hope so, yes. I'd guess better than the SE but somewhat short of the core range.


 
Re: the electronics, after reading the S2 site again, you're right about the ambiguity.

They can save money on the necks simply by using smaller boards. When it comes to lumber, smaller boards are easier/cheaper to source. Who knows (or who could even tell the difference) if the woods are the same species, but I get a certain comfort knowing the woods are stocked there in MD, since they have a stellar reputation for quality.

I know some people have whinged about the scarf joint, but that's a time-tested and perfectly acceptable construction method and makes for a very strong headstock.

Also, on bodies, they could use two-piece center-joined construction using smaller blanks. Another time tested method that makes for a fine and strong body.
 
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