The only fail in all of this is the use of the SE trem on the S2 Custom. Other than that, this appears to be a win. Does anyone know if the regular trem is a direct replacement for the SE trem? I just can't see the logic I guess. Even with the better trem and a +200 or so on the price tag, it would still be way below the price of the core line custom and still puts it in reach of many who can't afford core line.
PRS S2 Series - USA Built!!! For $1179!!!
- Thread starter Brad737
- Start date
QueenCityGuitars
Vamanos Pest
Me likey! :rock:
I've heard that the pickups are also from the SE line...and the tuners.
Danerada
Goatee Practitioner
The tuners are locking tuners. Are there locking tuners on any of the SE line?
crgtr
Zombie Eight - DFZ
The tuners & pups are listed as "S2" not SE, so they shound be better.
Danerada
Goatee Practitioner
I'll tell you what...I think those Mira S2's sound really good...I think a CRGTR Demo is in order!!!!
garrett
...
Read this page: http://www.prsguitars.com/s2series/about/
"PRS S2 Series proprietary pickups"
"PRS S2 locking tuners"
"If there was a time that we could not share a component with our current Core lineup, we set out to design a new process for ourselves or source new, proprietary components from our partners."
Looks most things are described as being same as core or S2 specific. The only case of something being the same as SE is the Custom's trem. I do think the S2 Custom falls a bit short of the mark, though. I don't think it's differentiated enough from the SE.
John Beef
Opaque
Regular neck on the S2 vs the Wide Thin on the SE is enough to make the S2 superior. 
I caught myself daydreaming about the S2 Mira in the shower this morning. Oh, GAS!!!
I caught myself daydreaming about the S2 Mira in the shower this morning. Oh, GAS!!!
garrett
...
Regular neck on the S2 vs the Wide Thin on the SE is enough to make the S2 superior.
Very good point, and agreed. Wish it had an option for dots, though.
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John Beef
Opaque
Yeah, give it moons or dots and knock $150 - $200 off the price. That's something I've been saying about the Core lineup for quite a while now. But in today's age of CNC routing, you gotta wonder if there's really any difference in manufacturing costs between the two. I'm guessing not much. Back in the 80s they could drill out holes for moons but had to use a template and rout for the birds by hand, but now a CNC handles all of that (to a much higher degree of precision as well).
From what I gather based on the information provided at the S2 site, it sounds like the "S2" parts are probably overseas produced parts made to core lineup specifications. They were up front in saying that the bridge will be the same as the SE bridge. The other differences are in construction and production methods.. They won't be as selective with the wood as they are for the core lineup guitars. They are using a scarf joint neck, which will enable them to make more necks from the same piece of wood, and help reduce wastage. The beveled top is not as time consuming to produce as the violin carve. The fretboard is produced and fretted apart from the guitar, then joined with the neck. I'm not sure how that saves cost, unless they have come up with a new production method that stamps the frets into the flat fretboard more easily and quickly than doing it on a full guitar. My only complaint is that I think there should be a brass sustain block on the trem, core lineup pickups, and it should absolutely ship with some kind of hardshell case.
Slartibartfarst42
New Member
It's interesting that here on the PRS forum everyone seems very enthusiastic about the S2 guitars whereas on other forums the reception to this news is far more luke warm. To a degree I do get what they're aiming for but I think they should have gone about it in a different way. There's clearly a huge price hike between an SE and a PRS made in the USA so it makes absolute sense to have a model range that sits somewhere between the two and that logic is not just down to price. PRS is a well respected brand that many guitarists would love to own but let's face it, how many mere mortals are going to be able to drop £2000-£3000 on a guitar? I'd love one but even ignoring my limited funds, the sad reality is that I'm a guitarist of limited ability who plays at home and gigs in pubs so for what I'd use it for, I'd never be able to justify that expense unless I won the lottery! I suspect many other guitarists are like me. Conversely, I'd be inclined to believe that there are equally guitarists out there who'd love a PRS but can't afford it and won't buy the SE because it's 'entry level'. The whole 'student edition' tag doesn't help here either. As a result, I believe that there is a market out there for the S2.
So, if that's not my issue with it, what is? For me, it boils down to the inescapable conclusion that the way they've done it, the S2 is more like an 'SE Plus' rather than a 'PRS Minus' and that's where, for me, they've gone wrong. Like it or not, manufacturing a guitar in the USA is more expensive than doing so in Korea, which means that if they are to control the costs, they have to do it in areas other than labour and premises etc. and in this case, part of that means using SE hardware. That being the case, you are inevitably paying a chunk of the price difference over the SE for the privilege of having 'Made in USA' stamped on the back. Personally, I'd rather they kept costs down by making it in Korea with the SE but throwing more money at the quality of the components involved and leave the USA models as the absolutely top drawer guitars. So what is this extra £400-£500 going to actually get me over the SE model?
It says 'Made in USA' on it - Not even in the slightest bit bothered about this.
US woods, crafted in the USA factory - Nice and I'd like that but not at that price. From the description it sounds like the woods are sourced and rough cut in the far east and then finally sanded and prepared in America. That's a pretty marginal difference in my book.
SE pickup built to US spec - Not remotely interested as I'll change them to Bare Knuckle pickups anyway.
Upgraded pots - Again, the wording is extremely ambiguous but either way, I'm still not remotely interested as I'll change them to BKP anyway.
Different tuners - Nothing hugely wrong with the SE tuners I have and though I may upgrade them, I'd rather choose my own upgrade.
US frets - Nice touch this but I can easily live without them (the US spec ones, not the frets themselves).
US nut - Again, quite nice but I'm not that bothered and I can easily upgrade that on an SE anyway.
Better carved body - Yes, nice again but I wouldn't be selling my granny to have this over the SE version.
I'm not saying I wouldn't buy an S2, but with those differences I sure as hell won't be buying a new one! If an S2 version of the Custom 24 came up about a year or so old and in mint condition I'd pay around £600 for it as that's what a new SE costs. With those marginal differences it's just not worth any more to me.
So, if that's not my issue with it, what is? For me, it boils down to the inescapable conclusion that the way they've done it, the S2 is more like an 'SE Plus' rather than a 'PRS Minus' and that's where, for me, they've gone wrong. Like it or not, manufacturing a guitar in the USA is more expensive than doing so in Korea, which means that if they are to control the costs, they have to do it in areas other than labour and premises etc. and in this case, part of that means using SE hardware. That being the case, you are inevitably paying a chunk of the price difference over the SE for the privilege of having 'Made in USA' stamped on the back. Personally, I'd rather they kept costs down by making it in Korea with the SE but throwing more money at the quality of the components involved and leave the USA models as the absolutely top drawer guitars. So what is this extra £400-£500 going to actually get me over the SE model?
It says 'Made in USA' on it - Not even in the slightest bit bothered about this.
US woods, crafted in the USA factory - Nice and I'd like that but not at that price. From the description it sounds like the woods are sourced and rough cut in the far east and then finally sanded and prepared in America. That's a pretty marginal difference in my book.
SE pickup built to US spec - Not remotely interested as I'll change them to Bare Knuckle pickups anyway.
Upgraded pots - Again, the wording is extremely ambiguous but either way, I'm still not remotely interested as I'll change them to BKP anyway.
Different tuners - Nothing hugely wrong with the SE tuners I have and though I may upgrade them, I'd rather choose my own upgrade.
US frets - Nice touch this but I can easily live without them (the US spec ones, not the frets themselves).
US nut - Again, quite nice but I'm not that bothered and I can easily upgrade that on an SE anyway.
Better carved body - Yes, nice again but I wouldn't be selling my granny to have this over the SE version.
I'm not saying I wouldn't buy an S2, but with those differences I sure as hell won't be buying a new one! If an S2 version of the Custom 24 came up about a year or so old and in mint condition I'd pay around £600 for it as that's what a new SE costs. With those marginal differences it's just not worth any more to me.
I'm amazed at the negative reviews these guitars are getting from people who haven't even seen one in person, much less played one.
I'm also stunned at some of the conclusions drawn about the build process.
In the end, it's going to boil down to the quality, tone and playability of these guitars and whether or not each person is willing to part with the asking price. To decide NOW, without ever even playing one, whether or not you will buy one seems short sighted to me. I understand people wanting to want them - that's the nature of G.A.S. But I don't get when someone says they won't even look at them... How do they really know until they have held them and played them?
I can't wait to get my mitts on them. Only then will I be able to say what I like and don't like.
I'm also stunned at some of the conclusions drawn about the build process.
In the end, it's going to boil down to the quality, tone and playability of these guitars and whether or not each person is willing to part with the asking price. To decide NOW, without ever even playing one, whether or not you will buy one seems short sighted to me. I understand people wanting to want them - that's the nature of G.A.S. But I don't get when someone says they won't even look at them... How do they really know until they have held them and played them?
I can't wait to get my mitts on them. Only then will I be able to say what I like and don't like.
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sergiodeblanc
New Member
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2012
- Messages
- 27,369
I'm trying to reserve my judgement until I am able to do just this. I had reservations about the SE line until I got one and I now have three! I think I prefer the neck construction available on the SE guitars rather than a scarf joint, and the Mira pick guard is uglier (to me) than ever, but I doubt that will stop me from raving about the one I get in the future... so I'm preparing myself to eat those words.
The only reason I bring this up is because of the perception that everybody over here is having a "Love Fest" or can't say how they truly feel without getting voted off "the island"....... What's that ? I'm still here?
I'm not saying that people should not say what they like and don't like. Published specs like the scarf jointed neck are fair game. Unpublished specs are unknowns. But that hasn't stopped people from jumping to conclusions based on what they are guessing about.
We are getting more and more details about these guitars daily. But there are some things that we don't know yet. I'm just trying to caution people not to try too hard to fill in the gaps without information. For whatever reason, people will read what we write. They may be less knowledgeable than the poster. If we push conjecture too far, especially negative conjecture, it is hard to reel it back in.
"A lie can travel halfway around the world before the truth can get its boots on." Charles Haddon Spurgeon, 1855
We are getting more and more details about these guitars daily. But there are some things that we don't know yet. I'm just trying to caution people not to try too hard to fill in the gaps without information. For whatever reason, people will read what we write. They may be less knowledgeable than the poster. If we push conjecture too far, especially negative conjecture, it is hard to reel it back in.
"A lie can travel halfway around the world before the truth can get its boots on." Charles Haddon Spurgeon, 1855
sergiodeblanc
New Member
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2012
- Messages
- 27,369
I wasn't directing any sort of negativity your way Bill, we're still in love. (even though your getting married.)
It's my understanding that most (if not all) high end Taylor necks employ a scarf joint and a two piece heel, and the guitars are still very highly regarded. In fact, at one point. Taylor was using a fingerjointed neck to assemble with the headstock (and sonics aside, it was butt-ugly)!
And most people don't realize the the early Martin headstock volute was invented because 19th Century Martin (and many others as well) guitars had the headstock glued on until relatively late in the century, and because adhesives weren't as good then, needed the volute to keep everything together!
I do agree that I'd prefer a one piece neck whenever possible, but at that price it isn't a deal breaker to have a scarfed headstock.
For the #1 production line, it would be something I'd be pretty unhappy about.
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