PRS Phase I Tuners

[Guitarmark57]

I would like some help with identifying PRS Phase I tuners. I have created a checklist and I would like to know if the following statements are true. If you can verify any of the following I would truly appreciate it.

1. All Phase I tuners sets share the same mounting screw for the D and G Strings

2. They are all made by Schaller and have either of the following markings:

A. They have a Schaller “S” logo and in small lettering at the bottom that reads, “Made in W. Germany” or
B. They have a PRS logo and in small lettering at bottom, “Made by Schaller W. Germany.”

3. None of the Phase I sets have six mounting screws meaning, separate mounting screws for the D and G strings.

Are there any other distinguishable aspects that would make them identifiable as Phase I?

Is the shape of the housing exactly the same for all Phase I tuners?

I’ve seen where people have claimed that Phase II tuners can be altered to fit a Phase I guitar and modified to use the winged locking system. Is this true?

Do any tuners other than Phase I have the winged locking system.

Is there a reliable resource that has the specs for Phase I tuners.

Any help that can be provided would be beneficial to me and hopefully to others.

Thanks!
Guitarmark57

 

[sergiodeblanc]

There were at least three different manufacturers for Phase I tuners.

Schaller were the first, and those are the ones that have the shared D&G screw. They are/were essentially modified M6 tuners.

The second one’s came on some Artist guitars. They had square housings with a black gear cover and PRS USA logo on them, bigger buttons, and no mounting screws. Instead, they were compression mounting with little “teeth” that bit into the wood/finish and were extremely short lived. I’m unsure of who made them.

The last (that I know of) were made by Gotoh and had the same mounting screw layout as the later Phase II’s.

You can modify some other tuners to accept wings ( I even did a SE tuner for sh!ts and giggles) but it will essentially cost you a complete set of Phase I’s as you need to swap the shaft, gear, and worm gear to make it work.

I’ll try and get pics for you as soon as my toddler gets off my nuts.

 

[Guitarmark57]

There were at least three different manufacturers for Phase I tuners.

Schaller were the first, and those are the ones that have the shared D&G screw. They are/were essentially modified M6 tuners.

The second one’s came on some Artist guitars. They had square housings with a black gear cover and PRS Guitars logo on them, bigger buttons, and no mounting screws. Instead, they were compression mounting with little “teeth” that bit into the wood/finish and were extremely short lived. I’m unsure of who made them.

The last (that I know of) were made by Gotoh and had the same mounting screw layout as the later Phase II’s.

You can modify some other tuners to accept wings ( I even did a SE tuner for sh!ts and giggles) but it will essentially cost you a complete set of Phase I’s as you need to swap the shaft, gear, and worm gear to make it work.

I’ll try and get pics for you as soon as my toddler gets off my nuts.

 

[sergiodeblanc]

Okay, here you’ll see on the left is the second version of a Phase I that came only on (to my knowledge) the Artist II or III ( I forget), these are the ones without mounting screws. On the right (in the gold) is the first version (really the second version, the earliest of 85’s had no PRS logo, but are essentially the same Schaller M6). You’ll notice the gold one says Made in W. Germany.

But.... then the later Schaller tuners just said “Made in Germany” as there was no such thing as “West Germany” anymore.

Then, these are the Gotoh made ones that have the same screw layout as Phase II’s (also made by Gotoh)

Lastly, here is a SE tuner that I modified to accept the cam mechanism:

There’s no real reason to do this IMO. Unless you’re bored, wanna waste money, or happen to be so anal or you don’t wanna devalue your $350 SE with some tiny screw holes. I really only did it just to see if it could be done.

 

[Guitarmark57]

Thank you.

 

[Iceman101]

Okay, here you’ll see on the left is the second version of a Phase I that came only on (to my knowledge) the Artist II or III ( I forget), these are the ones without mounting screws.
You never cease to amaze me I've never seen these. You truly are the Lord of the Wings

 

[tedtan]

The only real identifying feature of the phase I tuners are the wings/cams. All versions of the phase I tuners have them and they are the only tuners I know of that have them (one off modifications aside).

 

[sergiodeblanc]

I’d really like to find another set of Gotoh Phase I’s to see if I could hobble together a set of winged Phase III’s.

 

[garrett]

Sergio is the foremost expert in all things winged.

And I agree, the identifying feature of Phase I is the wings, despite the different iterations.

Another fun fact is the last couple years of Phase I (around '00-'01) came with black plastic buttons. That's when Paul and company started catching on to lowering headstock mass.

In 2002, they rolled out Phase II tuners, which have gone through several iterations of their own.

 

[Iceman101]

Another fun fact is the last couple years of Phase I (around '00-'01) came with black plastic buttons. That's when Paul and company started catching on to lowering headstock mass.

I've got these on my 1999 Strawberry Pearl CE

 

[garrett]

Another fun fact is the last couple years of Phase I (around '00-'01) came with black plastic buttons. That's when Paul and company started catching on to lowering headstock mass.

I've got these on my 1999 Strawberry Pearl CE

I was trying to remember if that started in '99. Apparently so!

 

[Alnus Rubra]

Sergio is the foremost expert in all things winged.

Tuners, Birds, Butterflies, feminine hyg......

 

[sergiodeblanc]

Tuners

Yup.

Birds

If we’re talking about skinhead girls.

Butterflies,

Eww... bugs.

feminine hyg......

God, how I long for the days when that was a mystery to me.... I’ve seen too much!!!

 

[Justme_223]

Okay, here you’ll see on the left is the second version of a Phase I that came only on (to my knowledge) the Artist II or III ( I forget), these are the ones without mounting screws. On the right (in the gold) is the first version (really the second version, the earliest of 85’s had no PRS logo, but are essentially the same Schaller M6). You’ll notice the gold one says Made in W. Germany.

But.... then the later Schaller tuners just said “Made in Germany” as there was no such thing as “West Germany” anymore.

Then, these are the Gotoh made ones that have the same screw layout as Phase II’s (also made by Gotoh)

Lastly, here is a SE tuner that I modified to accept the cam mechanism:

There’s no real reason to do this IMO. Unless you’re bored, wanna waste money, or happen to be so anal or you don’t wanna devalue your $350 SE with some tiny screw holes. I really only did it just to see if it could be done.

Thanks for the information Sergio, sorry for the thread revival but I need some help in knowing what to order.

I have a 1991 PRS CE24 that I plan on changing the original winged tuners (they share the D and G screws). I'm doing this to mainly try and save some mass on the headstock to try and get rid of a dead spot (G-string, 12th fret). I also want to preserve the original winged tuners since they're hard to come by.

I am thinking of ordering these products:

https://www.johnmannsguitarvault.co...se-I-Locking-Tuner-Set---Chrome-x42807273.htm

https://www.johnmannsguitarvault.co...Mass-Tuner-Button-Small---Ebony-x46723174.htm

Would the small ebony (low mass) tuning keys work on these tuners? Or would I have to order the large model here:

https://www.johnmannsguitarvault.com/shop/c/p/PRS-Phase-I-Tuner-Button-Large---Ebony-x46707617.htm

I tried to email John but he hasn't responded to me. Figured to try posting here to see if I have better luck!

Thanks,

Ace

 

[dogrocketp]

Try calling John directly, he's and his wife Roxanne are extremely nice people.

 

[sergiodeblanc]

I have a small set of buttons on some leftover Phase 1 tuners that PRS put on a guitar they let me spec, so they might fit.

Try calling John directly, he's and his wife Roxanne are extremely nice people.

And do this. John likes the phone.

 

[danktat]

I’d really like to find another set of Gotoh Phase I’s to see if I could hobble together a set of winged Phase III’s.

I have a set of Phase 1's that were pulled off of the 2001 cu22 I used to own. The previous owner switched them out for Phase 2's but included the originals with the guitar. When I sold that guitar, I kept the Phase 1's.

 

[sergiodeblanc]

I have a set of Phase 1's that were pulled off of the 2001 cu22 I used to own. The previous owner switched them out for Phase 2's but included the originals with the guitar. When I sold that guitar, I kept the Phase 1's.

Always a good idea to keep those!

 

[Driver 8]

Always a good idea to keep those!

Just curious why? Are I's considered better than IIs?

 

[danktat]

Just curious why? Are I's considered better than IIs?

Part of it is scarcity. We PRS guys are not nearly (as a group) as much of the "after market" crowd as some other brands. So original parts come at a premium. Some are, but, many, like me, are NOT. So, being as though there are less and less phase 1's around, they hold great value. Just look them up on like Reverb and you will be like "WHAT?!?!? For a used guitar part from 1997?!?!?!.....You gotta be kidding me".... lol