PRS In Church?

Gtrbldr

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Well, had a busy sunday night. Had an extra service, 11 songs, setlist 3 days ahead and alot of inverted keys (women singing songs in male keys). Lot of work and improv, but a great service!! Used my CU24 for the whole service.
 

BradM

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So, I had an interesting week! Since I have (had) two PRS guitars...one left!! :O I swapped my '04 SCT 10-top...for a Chris Singleton '62 Princeton + cash my way. Pristine and a total blast to play! That said, to make it accurate...they installed a dummy ground switch in the back. For me, that means two possible mods in the near future! :)

Fender-Princeton62-Stapleton.jpg
 

Lacire

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I have an original blackface Princeton amp from 1964 that I’ve played for years, one of my favorite amps, always found it loud enough for most places and light enough to carry in one hand. The more you use it the more you’ll come to enjoy it, throw in a couple pedals and it covers a lot of bases.
 

BradM

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Well, as it's not vintage and I'm the 2nd owner (i.e. no warranty), I just modded it with a PRE-PI master volume. About to mod the negative feedback by installing a switch in the Ext. Speaker jack and adding 5e3 gain that's switchable to stock 6G2...all easily reversible. Contemplating a WGS G12Q for it, but that's later if desired. It's the perfect size, for sure!
 

Lacire

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My wife gave me a hard look when I told her I was buying a used amp for $100, we didn’t have a lot of money and the guy wouldn’t budge off the price. The one I have has a 10” speaker and no reverb. When I got it the original speaker had been replaced with a Pyle brand speaker but I was able to source a used 64 Jensen for it. The only problem I’ve had with it was a bad high voltage filter cap a couple years ago, other than that it’s been solid and reliable for me.
 

theDeepender

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^^^ The problem with people is people....lol. God works through people. Find a "style" or "type" that works for you and leave the rest alone. Chew the meat, spit the bones kind of thing. What draws others may repel others just as much. If our eyes are truly on Jesus then a lot of the ancillary things we have issues with may not be noticed. ;)
Well said.
 

theDeepender

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This, for sure. In regards to my testimony, I came to faith as a result of feeling the presence of the Lord at a POD (Payable on Death) concert in 2018. Their vocalist, Sonny Sandoval, is very outwardly Christian and is a cofounder of The Whosoever's ministry. I've always known him as a Christian, as it was a band I've listened to since the late 90's. BUT, when I saw him live, I was in a bad place mentally and spiritually, but when I saw him perform, I kept thinking "if I could only have an ounce of the joy he is performing with, I wonder where that comes from". Boom, it was like God entered into that small club and just lit up my soul, and I started crying, joyfully! I knew immediately that the answer, the missing piece, the healing would only come from accepting Jesus as my savior. I am VERY grateful to Sonny for leading me in that moment to see the truth, His truth.

So, to your point, my walk with Jesus started in a small heavy metal club in December of 2018, with a performer on stage, right in the middle of the secular world. That's where I was, and that's where he finally reached me.
I love that!
 

theDeepender

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This past weekend, I was honored to be a part of the worship team for our church's 6th-12th grade retreat at a camp here in Michigan called Spring Hill. We have several campuses that combine for the weekend, and it was the most amazing worship experience I've been a part of. The band was full of super talented believers focused on the goal of creating moments of worship for the kids, and the during the Saturday evening high school service, we played a nearly 12 minute version of a song called "Hidden", and we went into a spontaneous worship moment that just broke the room down, and seeing these kids who have to live with so much shame or guilt or stress just fall to their knees in tears, with their friends and leaders their to comfort them was something I've never seen before. I was emotional on stage at that point, we all were. The Holy Spirit was moving in that moment, and to experience that and to be able to give those high schoolers the space to open up to their peers and mentors was something I will never forget.

We played a lot of high energy songs, and we sure were rocking all weekend, but I wanted to share that moment specifically as it had, and will continue to have, a profound impact on my life as a Christian and my God given gift to play guitar and help lead worship.
It’s a very special thing to be there when the Spirit is working. May you experience that often and may He be always pleased with your offering of praise.
 

theDeepender

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This is my first year of retirement. I mistakenly thought I would "slow down", lol! Instead, I'm finding a more immediate goal of years of projects to finally complete. Trying to clear the garage back out to work on amps there. Interesting how much you collect over the decades!!! :) On the PRS front, I will say I'm now into 5 weeks of playing my Singlecut TVJones-loaded axe and my Sunburst 22 is getting jealous.:p
I’ve noticed some jealousy from time to time, so I try to rotate through my guitars as evenly as possible.
 

Gtrbldr

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I understand exactly what you mean by your sentiments, Gtrblder. After all, our worship should be all about Christ and point to the Word. But, I will differ a bit on the outlook. Biblically speaking, God used some on "pedestals" (and not) as examples to look to (or not). David was the object of much of the Lord's approval, yet not when he strayed. Job was highly recommended as a faithful follower for Satan to consider and then had him tested, etc.

My view is this...if a worship leader is onto a "world stage" (Chris Tomlin, Mark Hall, etc.), is that not to God's glory? Sure it is. Don't we all still screw up and sin at times? Yep...hence 1Jhn 1:9 comes along and reminds us how we have to turn from that ole sin nature within. So, if a bit of what seems like world fame or good financial fortune comes along. Not a thing wrong with that...consider it a blessing from the Lord. Still, there will be the human flaws that shine through like David's adultery, Jonah's thinking he's right about those Ninevites...but was wrong, etc. Then, that's for the Lord to correct.

Now, the opposite is also true. What if God intends for you to be on that stage (or whomever) and you refuse to take it? (Liken that to Moses not wanting to lead the people out of Egypt) Would that not also be sin in refusing to use a gift or talent the Lord gave? The Lord's own words to Moses were..."You will be like God to the people and Aaron will speak on your behalf." And, God did that only to help Moses get beyond his own lack of confidence.

Point is...if the Lord puts people on a stage to lead worship, share His word through music, lead someone to Christ...so be it. That's a great and honorable calling. I've learned these days not to let those straying from the word and falling into the greed trap cause me judge all efforts in that manner in the same way. If they're not sincere in their efforts, and they're true believers...the Lord will correct them.

On a similar note, my dad wasn't a believer...told us kids "all those TV preachers just want to take your money". Well, some do...some don't. Now I had an experience listening to an evangelistic "hellfire & damnation" preacher on a street corner and I told my pastor,"I almost went up to him and told him that style of beating it over someone's head deterred me for years." But, he said..."Don't do it. For as it might put off some, others will be led to Christ in that same way." That's what prompted me years ago to just stand back and view that bigger picture. Lol, and that reminds me of how much I don't know everything the Lord uses in this world...just need to answer that basic question...is it bringing Him the glory. So, I do understand your point in the ultimate quest of life of humbleness and portraying more of Christ and less of ourselves. Yet, He will use some in the limelight and that's ok, too.
Has been a while and gave it some thought, beacause your idea has merit. Yet I think we should seperate worship in a "we lead a church/congregation" context from the specialties that definately have their place, but seem rather dominant in the interwebs space.

As governmental policy maker my rule of thumb is make policy for the big picture, correct for unwanted external effects or outliers. My bigger picture here is: most of us serve in church. That is what I referred to in my fist post. A lot of people inchurch know our singers. My wife was one of the vocals for some time, quit three years ago and is STILL recognized for that. Even if she stands next to me, who is still serving often, people adress her for her role, but do not recognize me. Do I care? No. Do I think this is vulnerable: yes. Apparently we (in our church at least) regard the worship leaders very highly. That is why I take the book by jeremy riddle seriously.

The outliers by the way are the very present celeb worshipleaders/big productions/mega churches etc. They have a place, but supporting and are walking very VERY thin lines. My church is on of the big, present ones in Holland for that matter. What I consider to be an important red line (for example) is profits from worship, business models, personal reverance of this or that "worship leader" ("I follow Paul,” or “I follow Apollos,” or “I follow Cephas,” or “I follow Christ.” 1 cor 1: 12) and "positions" derived from fame. Temptation is a very real thing.

So, in short: in church: lets get rid of the stage thing and all it represents if it is too big a thing. Outside church: be wise like like snakes, but innocent like doves.
 

theDeepender

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Has been a while and gave it some thought, beacause your idea has merit. Yet I think we should seperate worship in a "we lead a church/congregation" context from the specialties that definately have their place, but seem rather dominant in the interwebs space.

As governmental policy maker my rule of thumb is make policy for the big picture, correct for unwanted external effects or outliers. My bigger picture here is: most of us serve in church. That is what I referred to in my fist post. A lot of people inchurch know our singers. My wife was one of the vocals for some time, quit three years ago and is STILL recognized for that. Even if she stands next to me, who is still serving often, people adress her for her role, but do not recognize me. Do I care? No. Do I think this is vulnerable: yes. Apparently we (in our church at least) regard the worship leaders very highly. That is why I take the book by jeremy riddle seriously.

The outliers by the way are the very present celeb worshipleaders/big productions/mega churches etc. They have a place, but supporting and are walking very VERY thin lines. My church is on of the big, present ones in Holland for that matter. What I consider to be an important red line (for example) is profits from worship, business models, personal reverance of this or that "worship leader" ("I follow Paul,” or “I follow Apollos,” or “I follow Cephas,” or “I follow Christ.” 1 cor 1: 12) and "positions" derived from fame. Temptation is a very real thing.

So, in short: in church: lets get rid of the stage thing and all it represents if it is too big a thing. Outside church: be wise like like snakes, but innocent like doves.
Much wisdom here.
 

BradM

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Has been a while and gave it some thought, beacause your idea has merit. Yet I think we should seperate worship in a "we lead a church/congregation" context from the specialties that definately have their place, but seem rather dominant in the interwebs space.

As governmental policy maker my rule of thumb is make policy for the big picture, correct for unwanted external effects or outliers. My bigger picture here is: most of us serve in church. That is what I referred to in my fist post. A lot of people inchurch know our singers. My wife was one of the vocals for some time, quit three years ago and is STILL recognized for that. Even if she stands next to me, who is still serving often, people adress her for her role, but do not recognize me. Do I care? No. Do I think this is vulnerable: yes. Apparently we (in our church at least) regard the worship leaders very highly. That is why I take the book by jeremy riddle seriously.

The outliers by the way are the very present celeb worshipleaders/big productions/mega churches etc. They have a place, but supporting and are walking very VERY thin lines. My church is on of the big, present ones in Holland for that matter. What I consider to be an important red line (for example) is profits from worship, business models, personal reverance of this or that "worship leader" ("I follow Paul,” or “I follow Apollos,” or “I follow Cephas,” or “I follow Christ.” 1 cor 1: 12) and "positions" derived from fame. Temptation is a very real thing.

So, in short: in church: lets get rid of the stage thing and all it represents if it is too big a thing. Outside church: be wise like like snakes, but innocent like doves.

"The outliers by the way are the very present celeb worshipleaders/big productions/mega churches etc." - I don't think we disagree at all on the premise of the fringe extreme, Gtrbldr. When God puts someone in positions of influence, it's His call to do so for leading the people correctly according to God's word...not against it. You can't eliminate the "stage" without eliminating God's intent to put it in place at times. The bigger picture at present is...sinful mankind...and Satan's influence. Neither of which any human can counter in the present. Solomon was his wisest when he asked for wisdom....at his worst when he knew it all and sought pleasure. Just like gov't policymaking, it will always fail unless God is put in the midst of it. Making more policy sometimes overly complicates the matter. Prime example? The Pharisees and Sadducees of Jesus' day. They refined lists of sabbath do's & refrains to the extreme that they used it against Christ Himself.

And, to keep it short (lol, normally not like me!), the "stage" itself is never the issue...it always comes back to the hearts of people, whether they're the ones on the stage or listening in the masses. The only real solution, as I see it, is pray for those you know need Him and yield to the Spirit if God places you on the stage he desires for you. My personal strive is always to share the same Jesus to others whether I'm in church or in a public setting.

I'll add this...this is one cool place to enjoy chats with guitar players AND fellow believers at the same time! For you that know the Lord in this thread...God bless your endeavors! For those that don't and might be here? PM me! ;)
 

BradM

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Well, I wasn't sure how much I'd miss the Singlecut vs. love for the Stapleton Princeton. The verdict? It was a great swap. A close friend, also a believer, ended up with the Singlecut (I'll have to invite him in to this thread!).

About the amp? I got a wild hair last night and actually re-voiced the Princeton 6G2 into more of a 5E3...in some ways. It had the pre-PI master I'd already installed. So, I decided to changeup the Negative Feed-Back circuit (NFB). For you electronic-minded, Fender used a 56K NFB resistor in the 6G2...very clean & controlled level of NFB. In other designs, Fender used a way to inject NFB back into stage 2's tube so a cathode bypass capacitor could be used to increase that stages gain. That's what I did with this 6G2 Princeton.

The end result? The gain level I've modded it to is right in-between the original 6G2 and the latter years 5E3 gain. Breaks up nicely and a tad more mid-to-upper end gain that's just where I like it. Easy to push it standalone or back it off for pedal use. Great amp for the Sunburst 22! And, nice weight for carrying out.
 

BradM

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My wife gave me a hard look when I told her I was buying a used amp for $100, we didn’t have a lot of money and the guy wouldn’t budge off the price. The one I have has a 10” speaker and no reverb. When I got it the original speaker had been replaced with a Pyle brand speaker but I was able to source a used 64 Jensen for it. The only problem I’ve had with it was a bad high voltage filter cap a couple years ago, other than that it’s been solid and reliable for me.
What year did you find that $100 bargain? And, do you like the '64 Jensen? I assume i was well broken in. :)
 

Gtrbldr

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I agree the stage is not (necessarily) the issue. That is why the "if it is too big a thing".

I think we are more in agreement than it might look on the surface. Outcome should be glorious worship. You refer to input: hearts in the right place, pure motives. I am referring to an instrument: stages. The output is a congregetion lead into a certain direction. However the instrument has to meet criteria to make shure the congregation is lead in the right way to achieve the worship we seek. I think thw instrument "stage" cannot be seen independently from the input you refer to. There is a reciprocal relation there.

Long story short, i think agree. Just talking about different elements in the chain leading to pure worship.
 

Lacire

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What year did you find that $100 bargain? And, do you like the '64 Jensen? I assume i was well broken in. :)
I really don’t remember exactly when I got it but somewhere around 2000 give or a year or two……… I’ve slept some since then :rolleyes:. It wasn’t clean and pristine but not to beat up. The Jensen I found on eBay.
 

kirellah

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It’s a very special thing to be there when the Spirit is working. May you experience that often and may He be always pleased with your offering of praise.
Yes, it was a very special moment to encountered the Spirit like that, and to know he was using us on stage was incredible. It's definitely informing how I've approached playing every Sunday since then.
 
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