Picking speed, I can't move past my plateau

mezzio said:
I've had the same problem, no matter what I did, what I practiced, I couldn't gain any speed... So I started taking lessons.

After a few months of it, my instructor saw that the speed could be there, but isn't coming out for some reason. He noted my hands were fast enough when they needed to be, the technique was correct, but something was still holding me back.

He decided to try something, as odd as it was, to see if I had some sort of mental block going on. I put ear plugs in, and noise cancelling headphones on over it with soft white noise playing so I couldn't hear anything going on around me. Sat face to face with him, and only used my eyes to mimic what he was doing, starting obnoxiously slow, and building up. I guess only being able to look at his fretboard & hands, and not hearing what I was doing did work a little because I was actually able to kee up with him for a little bit... Until I realized I was keeping up with him, and screwed it all up, lol.

While it worked in the practice room with dim lights and not being able to hear anything but static and my heartbeat, I'm still struggling "in the real world", I am actually convinced my mind is telling me I can't do it, and holding me back some, so I've been trying to find ways to get over it... I honestly think at this point I'm gonna need to find a band to play with so I have something to concentrate on other than myself.
Click to expand...
I had a similar experience as you did - lessons etc.....I think my mind is holding me back as well, maybe because some part of my sub conscious thinks that I will lose control if I just "go for it". My speed is slowly improving (emphasis on "slowly"), so I just keep plugging away. Now if I could just get my pinky to stay closer to the fretboard.....
 
I guess I need to amend my comments. 10 notes per second sounds like a lot. It sounds like it should be fast. I still say it's "fast enough," and certainly there are great players who never play that fast.

But I took multiple attempts to time the first second of a recording I made. I was not trying to play at absolute top speed, but was kind of shredding for a friend to hear, and depending how quick you are with the trigger finger on the stopwatch, I get somewhere between 21 and 25 notes per second during the intro.
 
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My suggestion is to use a metronome (which you are already doing) and work on practicing 5 minutes at a time.

Here is a good read on an intermediate practice routine (specifically read the part about "Using A Timer"): http://www.justinguitar.com/en/PC-502-IntermediatePractice.php

In one of Rusty Cooley's instructional vids he talks about how this is how he used to practice to build his chops. I have used this technique a lot and I think it helps immensely. For pure technique building I think it works great. I get a whole lot more done practicing 60 minutes broken up into 5 minute blocks than I do "playing" for 3 to 4 hours at a time.
 
I long ago gave up the search for speed, instead focused on content and taste. All that "he says more with one note" thing is fine, but to be able to salvo when needed would be fine too..
 
Stop overanalyzing.
Make sure u have a top of the line instruction DVD and follow it.
Honestly, it isn't that difficult.

I would say practice, but most guys just practice themselves to mediocrity.
They just "noodle" and never improve.
However, if u take it seriously, r honest with yourself, put some time and effort into it, u will improve.

good luck.
 
IKnowALittle said:
Stop overanalyzing.
Make sure u have a top of the line instruction DVD and follow it.
Honestly, it isn't that difficult.

I would say practice, but most guys just practice themselves to mediocrity.
They just "noodle" and never improve.
However, if u take it seriously, r honest with yourself, put some time and effort into it, u will improve.

good luck.
Click to expand...

Thanks man

Any recommendation on a DVD?
 
Parralax view said:
I long ago gave up the search for speed, instead focused on content and taste. All that "he says more with one note" thing is fine, but to be able to salvo when needed would be fine too..
Click to expand...

I have thought about going the same route myself, but I would like to salvo when needed too.
 
I'm going in the opposite direction with speed. I used to be lightning fast as was the fashion, but I have just slowed down to old weary hands. I now attempt to play with more style and focus. Yeah, that's what I tell myself....
 
The term downward pick slanting is not a technique in itself,it's just a way to describe the position some players have their pickinghand.If you have your picking hand like that and it feels natural the technique is to change strings on even numbers.Troy Grady have all this explained on his excellent YouTube channel.Most of us learn and practice scales with 3 notes per string.With downward pick slanting that is big problems when changing string.The solution for players using that hand position,like Eric ,Yngwie or gypsy jazz players is economy or so called sweep picking.Some players also use hybrid picking when changing strings.So for example if they play 3 notes per strings ideas,instead of going down,up,down on one string and then down on the next string they use middle finger instead of a downstroke.Key to changing strings with downward pick slanting is the upstroke.Just practising first position pentatonic scale is perfect.Its 2. notes per string and you always change strings with an upstroke.When turning direction on the high e string for example you have to use four notes.Here is a link to an excellent lesson by Prs player emil werstler http://www.premierguitar.com/articles/22326-future-rock-pentatonic-transitions
 
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The Viking Gangster said:
Thanks man

Any recommendation on a DVD?
Click to expand...

Honestly, I don't.
If I were u, I would check out transcriptions from some of the shredders. Learn them and integrate whatever moves you into your repertoire.
Also, don't practice scales, waste of time, however, scale exercises can be really helpful.
None of it matters if you practice two hours a week and think your doin' well, don't kid yourself. if that is all u can do, might as well not bother. Two hours a day, cool, after three months, you will look back and think
"how was that so hard?" ... and you will not believe how much progress you have made.

or ... the other side of the coin. perhaps you just aren't ready yet. man, u have to master the fundamentals first, which so many guys don't do.
regardless ... all the best ... challenge yourself, it's all there for the taking.

cheers!
 
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I reckon if you can shred and pull a squealy on every note you're just about there.
 
The Viking Gangster said:
Les

Thanks for a great response. I enjoyed reading the article too. I started playing when I was around 9, but it was all Beatles, Zeppelin and some folk songs. Mode for a Day by Yes, Reeling in the Years by Steely Dan, and other songs like that were the more complex song I could play in high school. I played in a New Wave band in my senior year. So Joe Jackson and the Cars were the style we played. Long story short, went to college, got married, bought a house, and have been raising 3 kids for the past 30 some odd years. Not a lot of guitar study going on there. Always had one around and played songs, but.....

Now I'm back practicing to get better than I was when I was 17. back then and for most of my life, I could learn how to play most songs on my own (not Van Halen and such..). So I figured if I worked on it hard enough I could play Cliffs of Dover. Well.....that didn't happen. I came across other songs like that too where there was some kind of barrier inhibiting me from playing those songs. I then realized that it wasn't a trick like tapping that was keeping me down. It was a whole area and set of techniques I never really payed attention to. Since them I've been trying to learn and improve on a few techniques (Legato, shredding, sweep.....) just so I can play songs like Cliffs of Dover. So far, Cliffs of Dover is out of my reach. Alway with You Always with Me and Electric Gypsy are getting better, but Cliff of Dover is not even close.

I need to spend more time learning songs and jamming with others. I think that will help me in the other areas that I've been neglecting because of technique.

Thanks,

Alan
Click to expand...

I think that iknowalittle is right. You need the hour or two a day thing rather than the hour or two a week thing for what you're trying to accomplish. I'm the same vintage as you are with a pretty similar story. Played out in clubs through College....we were tight but the music was never super challenging..., then kids and little or no guitar playing for a couple of decades. Then got back into it. For me, I found that if I spent enough time on a particular piece, I could ape it rather convincingly, but it didn't translate to the next song, and life is just too short with too many things going on to put in the time to do it right. I find it more personally rewarding to play with others, and choose to spend the time I have available doing that. There are still challenges. Getting back in to the swing of singing and playing at the same time was one of them. If you really have Cliffs of Dover on your list of to-do's, it'll take time, but you'll get there.
 
aristotle said:
I think that iknowalittle is right. You need the hour or two a day thing rather than the hour or two a week thing for what you're trying to accomplish. I'm the same vintage as you are with a pretty similar story. Played out in clubs through College....we were tight but the music was never super challenging..., then kids and little or no guitar playing for a couple of decades. Then got back into it. For me, I found that if I spent enough time on a particular piece, I could ape it rather convincingly, but it didn't translate to the next song, and life is just too short with too many things going on to put in the time to do it right. I find it more personally rewarding to play with others, and choose to spend the time I have available doing that. There are still challenges. Getting back in to the swing of singing and playing at the same time was one of them. If you really have Cliffs of Dover on your list of to-do's, it'll take time, but you'll get there.
Click to expand...

Hey Michale_DK:

I have listened to some of the advice from this thread and have been slowly increasing my speed. I do try to put in the time each day. If I don't, I can tell. It really comes down to learning how to make it feel natural. When it's forced and uncontrolled, you get crap. Also, I think it was iknowalittle that said, "Don't just noodle around. Be honest with yourself." So I try to do focused practice and pay attention to my technique and keep adjusting and experimenting too. For example, I've started to approach picking in more of a strumming frame. This has relaxed my hand more and seems to have increased my speed.

Only time will tell, but I've keep working on it.

Thanks,

Alan
 
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IKnowALittle said:
Honestly, I don't.
If I were u, I would check out transcriptions from some of the shredders. Learn them and integrate whatever moves you into your repertoire.
Also, don't practice scales, waste of time, however, scale exercises can be really helpful.
None of it matters if you practice two hours a week and think your doin' well, don't kid yourself. if that is all u can do, might as well not bother. Two hours a day, cool, after three months, you will look back and think
"how was that so hard?" ... and you will not believe how much progress you have made.

or ... the other side of the coin. perhaps you just aren't ready yet. man, u have to master the fundamentals first, which so many guys don't do.
regardless ... all the best ... challenge yourself, it's all there for the taking.

cheers!
Click to expand...

Working on those fundamentals.....shedding it right now and trying to put in the time each day.
 
swede71 said:
The term downward pick slanting is not a technique in itself,it's just a way to describe the position some players have their pickinghand.If you have your picking hand like that and it feels natural the technique is to change strings on even numbers.Troy Grady have all this explained on his excellent YouTube channel.Most of us learn and practice scales with 3 notes per string.With downward pick slanting that is big problems when changing string.The solution for players using that hand position,like Eric ,Yngwie or gypsy jazz players is economy or so called sweep picking.Some players also use hybrid picking when changing strings.So for example if they play 3 notes per strings ideas,instead of going down,up,down on one string and then down on the next string they use middle finger instead of a downstroke.Key to changing strings with downward pick slanting is the upstroke.Just practising first position pentatonic scale is perfect.Its 2. notes per string and you always change strings with an upstroke.When turning direction on the high e string for example you have to use four notes.Here is a link to an excellent lesson by Prs player emil werstler http://www.premierguitar.com/articles/22326-future-rock-pentatonic-transitions
Click to expand...
swede71

Troy Grady is where I got that term about downward pick slanting. A buddy of mine lent me some of those videos.

Thanks for the link

Alan
 
I'm going to add a couple more comments, no intent to offend.
It's very difficult to help when we have no idea of your skill level or the kind of music you're interested in.
Regardless, I'm going to give some general advice.

I started playin' in 1982, when I was 12.
I was lucky. My Dad was a professional guitarist for many years before I came along ... way better than me.
He went to Vietnam in '66 and got out in May of '69.
Then he grew his hair, went to Woodstock and met my Mom.
By the time I was old enough to understand anything, he was a Prof, along with my Mom at UofT.

So, anyway, when I was 15 in 1985 he taught me this. All of it.


I would suggest you learn it. Actually, it's very likely that very few guys on the forum can play this.
I have a transcription (long after I learned it ... trans done in 2005 by Guthrie Govan, so u know it is first-rate), if you are interested, just let me know, I will scan and send it to you. Man, it covers all the bases.

I learned it, it was hard ... but returned incredible dividends. Took my playin' to another level.

In 1988, when I was 18 and doing pretty well, my Dad threw down a challenge.
"If you can learn Woodchoppers Ball reasonably well, I will buy you a car".

Well, I did and he bought me a car, nothing great, but when your 18, it's freedom.

This is just cruel ...


I know I have a point. Don't get distracted, power on thru and don't over analyze..
 
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