Pick attack on delay

[danktat]

I know the very first answer I will probably get is to invest in a "really good" delay pedal. So lets see if we can get that on out of the way first.

Here is the issue. I have a cheap delay pedal on my board just for some light slap back here and there as I mainly use reverb and chorus for getting a nice, wet sound. It sounds good to my ears EXCEPT that it seems to pick up a LOT of my pick attack. Almost as much attack as actual tone signal. So, on single not lead stuff, there is an audible "click" that happens in the beginning of each note. Even as the delay decays. I have tried the level control to see if I can bring that down. Rolling off the volume on the guitar itself. Angling the pick itself to see if more of a "slide" off the strings as opposed to a "pop" off the strings would help. But to no avail. Now, bear in mind that I don't hear this when I am playing without the delay. The original picked note does have a pretty percussive attack...but no "pop". It is the echoes that have it. Also, when I am playing chords with the delay on, I don't seem to hear it either.

So, my question is, is this common in delay effects? It it simply a flaw in the cheap a$$ pedal I am using? [It is a Mosky clone of the Mad Professor pedal]......OR (and this is likely) is it a result of my playing technique [or lack thereof]. And, if any of you have experienced this, and found a remedy, could you share it with me.

Thanks in advance.

 

[alantig]

First thing I would try is a lighter gauge pick. It's not always an easy change to make. But that's what I'd do before investing in another pedal.

Also, you don't say you're using a compressor, but I'll ask anyway. I noticed this week that the compression setting I had on a couple of the patches in my G-System were giving me a very sharp, popping attack. I hadn't noticed it before because I used these patches for a song that basically all hybrid picking, and that attack thing really worked there w/o being intrusive. It didn't really sound different (attack-wise) from having the compressor off. But when I used it w/this other picking technique, it really jumped out. But if you're not using a compressor, that doesn't apply (unless the delay does some compression w/o admitting it).

 

[danktat]

Also, you don't say you're using a compressor, but I'll ask anyway.

Yes. A boss compressor is in the chain before the delay. Delay is last in the line before my looper.

 

[alantig]

Yes. A boss compressor is in the chain before the delay. Delay is last in the line before my looper.

Worth a shot bypassing it to see if it makes a difference. Always try the cheap stuff first!

I've noticed I get that clicking or chirping sound with some of my higher end picks. I've also noticed that once I get it, I can't seem to get rid of it - changing angles, amount of attack, nothing works. Three days later, same pick, same guitar - no issues. It makes me think this hobby is not always good for my sanity.

 

[danktat]

Also, you don't say you're using a compressor

And just for reference, this is my board (pretty generic I know) that I have running into the front of a Fender Hot Rod DeVille 2x12.

I just popped in at home and played it without the compressor turned on, and it still gave the same "click" before the decay.

 

[László]

Yes. A boss compressor is in the chain before the delay. Delay is last in the line before my looper.

A compressor raises the volume of soft sounds. That's what's accentuating your pick attack. The delay is merely repeating it. Reduce the attack time of your compressor.

 

[danktat]

A compressor raises the volume of soft sounds. That's what's accentuating your pick attack. The delay is merely repeating it. Reduce the attack time of your compressor.

Tried that too. Turned it off completely and still had the issue. I literally left work, popped in at home, plugged in, and tried that........Just because it sounded rational.

 

[László]

Tried that too. Turned it off completely and still had the issue. I literally left work, popped in at home, plugged in, and tried that........Just because it sounded rational.

Maybe you simply play with a lot of pick attack, but don't notice it on the initial picking. When the delay picks it up, maybe it sounds unnatural. Or maybe the delay is exaggerating the upper midrange, where you'll hear pick attack strongly. Or maybe, maybe, maybe...a million things could be the culprit.

Try other picks?

It makes me think this hobby is not always good for my sanity.

It's even worse when it's not a hobby!

 

[Black Plaid]

The only think I can think is to get one of the analog delay pedals that has a sidechain loop and eq the delayed signal to remove some of the pick attack frequencies...

the JHS Panther Cub can do this I think, but then, it's kinda throwing a lot of money at the problem and you'd need a larger board.

Which is the opposite of the answer you wanted.

 

[Alnus Rubra]

Bought one of these last year. Probably what you would call a cheap @$$ pedal, but no pick attack issues identified.

 

[danktat]

I may plug in my HD500X .... just to compare the two. If it is happening with BOTH, then it may be my playing. OR my amp. As you can recall, I was having an issue with foot switches popping as well. Like it taps the reverb tank or something. We will have to see.......to be continued.......

 

[aphantomvaper]

Not necessarily a "better" delay pedal; you could try a different delay pedal.

I like your board Dankat! It definitely shows the Trey aspect of your playing

 

[danktat]

Not necessarily a "better" delay pedal; you could try a different delay pedal.

I like your board Dankat! It definitely shows the Trey aspect of your playing

I looked up a few youtube videos of this pedal and tried to listen pretty closely. There DOES seem to be a little bit of what I am hearing in mine on the videos I watched. Not quite as pronounced. But there just a bit. I may try something else just to see. I will look around for one of those papery thin picks in my drawer of stuff to try that first.

And I WISH I had some Trey in my playing.....lol......but that IS kind of my [poor man's] Trey/SRV crossover board....lol

 

[CandidPicker]

A compressor raises the volume of soft sounds. That's what's accentuating your pick attack. The delay is merely repeating it. Reduce the attack time of your compressor.

Les, thanks for this. My SE HBII Piezo piezo's channel comes in percussive with strong pick attack. I tried what you suggested, lowered the attack to 0.001 ms and increased the threshold to about 40%, also switched the compressor type to "soft knee" from "medium knee." It helps to hybrid pick when playing piezo, and blend in the magnetic pickups.

I did discover the the piezo channel is inordinately softer in volume than the magnetics without amplifying the 2nd HBII output, and thru passing to the PA. So I tossed in a mixer and re-routed the piezo path to the amp, not after amp/cab.

I'll have look Saturday and see what needs attenuating from the mixer. My feeling is that the HBII is much brighter being a SE HBII, so I'll need to adjust some amp tone controls since the piezo tone isn't affected by the guitar's tone knob.

Trying to follow the rules here, but I think this is why the old musician's joke about guitarist's brains costing so much holds true.

Here's a SS of what I'm thinking might be better for my needs than trying to place the 2nd IN connecting after the 1st IN's CAB. IN # 1 is the magnetic/mix guitar output and IN #2 is the Piezo guitar output.

 

[László]

I looked up a few youtube videos of this pedal and tried to listen pretty closely. There DOES seem to be a little bit of what I am hearing in mine on the videos I watched. Not quite as pronounced. But there just a bit. I may try something else just to see. I will look around for one of those papery thin picks in my drawer of stuff to try that first.

And I WISH I had some Trey in my playing.....lol......but that IS kind of my [poor man's] Trey/SRV crossover board....lol

Sometimes I find that a medium or heavy pick stops the clickiness. Everything depends on your hands and playing style. For me, a light pick is clickier. It also depends what the pick is made of. For the past 4-5 years, I've been using Blue Chip picks - not suggesting that you try them, they're probably more for maniacs like me - but they don't sound clicky.

I find I get a stronger click from celluloid pics, and a much softer click from Dunlop's Tortex. We all listen for different things, and our hands produce different things. Not that I use Tortex, the attack is too soft for my taste.

On acoustic guitar, I often WANT the pick attack to be loud, and will switch to a celluloid pick to accentuate that.

It's also extremely likely from what you're describing that the delay you have accentuates the upper midrange frequencies, which is usually where that clickiness lives. But I'd also ease off on the compressor.

I have a compressor on my board that ONLY gets used if I need ultra-clean, hard, funky strumming. I don't much care for pedal compressors, and bypass it unless it's absolutely necessary.

 

[danktat]

I have a Donner Echo Square 7 on order. Same footprint on the board, but seven different options as far as delays. I am sure at least ONE of them will be better than what I have now. We shall see.

 

[Kiwi]

Dank, one more thing to try: Get a delay pedal with a tone control for the delayed signal.

This one's not too expensive, especially used: https://www.t-rex-effects.com/tap-tone

I run it into a blackface Fender, which can get pretty bright, so I turn down the Bite control. Works quite well.

See? - there are very few problems that spending more money on gear can't fix.

=K

 

[danktat]

From this video of it, it sounds good to my ears. And the pick attack doesn't sound any different on the echos than it does on the original picked note. If I can get THAT out of it, I'll be golden. And this will give me a little more delay variety as well. I will see when it arrives.

 

[danktat]

Well, lets see if this helps. I am working right now but I will test it out when I get home.

 

[alantig]

So your delay test is...