Pernambuco vs. Chaltecoco Pernambuco

[László]

Oh...I wasn't suggesting that it was (or wasn't for that matter) marketed correctly. Just saying that one way or the other, it wasn't what Twinfan was thinking it was

I do get that part of it. Honest.

I guess myths are better, and worth more, than reality.

Gentlemen, I'm hereby announcing that I'm going into the Streptococcoperniechocca Torch and Pitchfork business!

I'm now taking pre-orders for these rare pitchforks and torches, made of this legendary wood, and they will only be $1000 for the pitchfork, and $500 for the torch. Deposits of 50% required to reserve yours.

In addition, I will be marketing the Official Reproduction Honus Wagner Baseball Card, in a limited run of ten thousand, made of exactly the same cardboard as the famous original! $100,000 each, a fraction of what you'd pay for the original.

For only $50,000 more, each card can be carefully artificially aged into "relic" status to match the look of a card kept in a shoebox in my grandmother's attic for 100 years.

Finally, I will be marketing a reproduction of the original 1909 SVDB penny for only $500 dollars, a third what you'd pay for the real penny in a coin dealer's shop.

PM me for more silly information.

 

[martysnarf]

...I guess myths are better, and worth more, than reality.

DING!! We have a WINNER!!

 

[docbennett]

Les...let me show you why your arguement has holes in it.

You are familiar with the art world. Your brother is a famous, talented artist.

Let's make an analogy.

I purchase an original Picasso for $1,500,000. I am thrilled...I got a bargain...it's beautiful, it's by a famous artist...I love the picture. I even got a great deal. It's an investment, as well as a decorative fixture for my mansion.

I find out a year later that what I bought was a perfectly executed forgery by an artist who is so talented, you can't tell the difference without knowing. the value of the "knockoff"....$15,000.

According to your logic, I should still be happy, since I still love the picture. the picture is the same....just not the one that was represented to me.


It's not the tone....it's the rarity of the componants. That is the driving principle behind all collecting and relative value. Rarity/scarcity along with desirability of the purported original determine ultimate value. If the original pernambuco was not valued for its intrinsic worth, no one would pay the premium and as a consequence simple supply and demand economics would dictate that there was no upcharge for it. However, the "mythology" of the wood along with scarcity and demand have resulted in significant upchages and value associated with it.

More down to earth example.....would you be happy with a Dali lithograph you paid $3,000 for, only to find that it was not signed by Dali, but was one of the many forged lithos that were mass produced in the late 70's until his death??? The fake would be worth less than $100 bucks, but IT'S THE SAME PICTURE DAMMIT!

I hope I am trying to covey the way collectors and afficianados think....purchases are based on many intrinsic and socially accepted variables, and when these variables are misrepresented, the intent of the buyer has been sabotaged. When PRS markets and sells an item, they totally figure into the equation these principles when developing an MSRP.


Edit....and, this is the reason i got out of rare book collecting of signed copies.....too much damn forgery going around, and too many signatures became too difficult to authenticate. Same book...similiar signatures...but one is real, and the other is fake....hence the dramatic difference in worth. I fail to see the difference between my examples and the "authenticity" of the wood.

 

[László]

Les...let me show you why your arguement has holes in it.

You are familiar with the art world. Your brother is a famous, talented artist.

Let's make an analogy.

I purchase an original Picasso for $1,500,000. I am thrilled...I got a bargain...it's beautiful, it's by a famous artist...I love the picture. I even got a great deal. It's an investment, as well as a decorative fixture for my mansion.

I find out a year later that what I bought was a perfectly executed forgery by an artist who is so talented, you can't tell the difference without knowing. the value of the "knockoff"....$15,000.

According to your logic, I should still be happy, since I still love the picture. the picture is the same....just not the one that was represented to me..

The analogy is silly.

You're getting a genuine PRS - the "Picasso" part. That's no fake. PRS is the "artist" as it were.

You're complaining about the rarity of the paint.

 

[Twinfan]

Many thanks for the clarification, Shawn.

So chaltecoco is NOT pernambuco. Adding it to the name does not make it so.

 

[docbennett]

The analogy is silly.

You're getting a genuine PRS - the "Picasso" part. That's no fake. PRS is the "artist" as it were.

You're complaining about the rarity of the paint.

I think that the debate is whether the second generation PB is the same as the 1st generation or different. So, I see no difference in the analogy. Are you getting "original PB" or "coco-PB"? As a consequence of this debate, it is now clear that you are paying for a "2nd generation PB that is NOT the same as the 1st generation".

If nothing else, this debate has led to additional knowledge and disclosure about the materials used. I consider my analogies valid.

 

[László]

I think that the debate is whether the second generation PB is the same as the 1st generation or different. So, I see no difference in the analogy. Are you getting "original PB" or "coco-PB"? As a consequence of this debate, it is now clear that you are paying for a "2nd generation PB that is NOT the same as the 1st generation".

If nothing else, this debate has led to additional knowledge and disclosure about the materials used. I consider my analogies valid.

If you'd read the link I posted very early in this thread, you'd have already known that there were two distinct materials involved long before you started your ranting on the subject.

You'd have understood that two species were involved, and this was something PRS themselves identified. There was zero reason for this "debate" in the first place.

There was no reason for the analogy, which by the way, sucked as most analogies do. It exploded like a bad pimple being squeezed. Now there's a better analogy. LOL

 

[markie]

Les does not get the "Collecting" of things ................................................... I get it!

Doc "Collects" Guitars ............................................ I get it!


The Player (real pro) vs Collector thought process has been around as long as I have been buying PRS Guitars. It is somewhat amusing to me that people plunk down 3K for a Guitar when a $500 Guitar can do the same thing the 3K Guitar can .................................... then throw rocks at the "Dumbass" who spent 7K :laugh:


I live in a 4000+ sq ft house. Just me & my lovely Bride. We do not need that much room, but we still live there. I hope my House is not made of glass.........

Both our Vehicles have right at around 100K on them & were purchased used.

My Wife buys nearly all of our clothes from Goodwill. Not underwear or shoes though.......... a guy has to draw the line somewhere



Moral of the story: Different strokes for different folks :beer:

 

[Dirty Bob]

My Wife buys nearly all of our clothes from Goodwill. Not underwear or shoes though.......... a guy has to draw the line somewhere

What about the bunny slippers?

 

[markie]

What about the bunny slippers?

Murali from BAM sent me the Slippers. They were new :rock:

 

[hippietim]

The analogy is silly.

You're getting a genuine PRS - the "Picasso" part. That's no fake. PRS is the "artist" as it were.

You're complaining about the rarity of the paint.

Perhaps the analogy isn't perfect. But the point is valid. With pernambuco/sinker mahogany/PS grade maple/etc. there is an expectation that what you are paying for is somehow special (whether it's premium/rare/expensive/whatever). IOW, you are paying for the rarity of the "canvas". You can argue that it doesn't matter because it's a great guitar until you are blue in the face, your opinion of what makes the guitar valuable is only relevant to you. Other people may only be willing to pay the premium price here if they are getting the extra special materials - you can dismiss that sentiment all you want and it still doesn't matter what you think.

What if I sold guitars that were spec'd to have side dots made of Epätosi-Diamonds. Other than our Finnish friends, the expectation most people would have is that the dots would be diamonds. So if the dots were actually Moissanite many people would probably get upset despite the fact that they very often look superior to real diamonds, can be produced without questionable ethics in mining, etc. But if we use your logic here, those people should get over it because it's a great guitar and the Moissanite does just as good a job (if not better) than a real diamond.

 

[László]

Les does not get the "Collecting" of things ................................................... I get it!...

I get it, actually. I just think that buying a guitar for the neck wood devalues the object of buying a guitar for its inherent musical qualities.

The Player (real pro) vs Collector thought process has been around as long as I have been buying PRS Guitars. It is somewhat amusing to me that people plunk down 3K for a Guitar when a $500 Guitar can do the same thing the 3K Guitar can .................................... then throw rocks at the "Dumbass" who spent 7K :laugh:

Except they don't do exactly the same thing. If you weren't a collector, and if you were a musician using them professionally, maybe you'd understand why people value them for their musical qualities?

Moreover, I'm not saying people being spendy are dumbasses, I have a PS on order. Because it's what I want musically.
And not because I'm a collector.

You can want a fine thing for its inherent quality without it having a damned thing to do with collector BS.

I live in a 4000+ sq ft house. Just me & my lovely Bride. We do not need that much room, but we still live there. I hope my House is not made of glass.........

Both our Vehicles have right at around 100K on them & were purchased used.

My Wife buys nearly all of our clothes from Goodwill. Not underwear or shoes though.......... a guy has to draw the line somewhere



Moral of the story: Different strokes for different folks :beer:

Different strokes, indeed. Whether this is a tempest in a teapot is another matter.

I'm not sure how the size of one's house figures into this; I also spent 28 years in a very large and expensive house. It was about the same size, on a two acre parcel. Ten of those years after the kids went away to school. But I'm not sure how that applies here? I enjoyed it anyway. But I lived in it, and used it. It served a practical purpose. I raised a family in it.

 

[Dirty Bob]

I think Les was simply arguing the logic surrounding "forgery" by a specific artist...which is where I saw the flaw with the analogy...doc presented...focusing on the actual analogy distracts from the point he was attempting to make.

Mark was simply saying different strokes for different folks.

We all can get carried away and lose focus.

This comes down to one issue...is a product for sale being represented clearly and factually to the buyer? Yes or No.

 

[Twinfan]

I have no idea what the specs sheets will say, but the wood is being openly marketed as Chaltecoco. But why Chaltecoco Pernambuco? Because most people (myself included) have no idea that Chaltecoco and I are realted. Is it marketing spin? Absolutely, but that's what marketing is supposed to do, get people excited and have them spend some money.

I've just re-read this and I'm a bit shocked. It's very misleading marketing, especially if you're trying to get people to spend many thousands of dollars.

Using the same theory, it's OK to tell people who have never seen a lion that it's a leopard-lion?

I think not.

 

[PRSHB2]

Now wait one darn minute hippietim. Are you suggesting that different people can have differing opinions? That's blasphemy!!!

 

[crgtr]

This has been a fun read. Please continue.

 

[hippietim]

Now wait one darn minute hippietim. Are you suggesting that different people can have differing opinions? That's blasphemy!!!

Crap. I didn't mean to come across like that. What I meant is that we should all conform to what Les thinks is right.

 

[László]

Crap. I didn't mean to come across like that. What I meant is that we should all conform to what Les thinks is right.

Hahaha! I guess we should.

Or maybe we should all conform to what you, Twinfan, Markie, and Bennett think is right?

Hey, it's a discussion board. I'm discussing.

(or I'm disgusting, take your pick, wait I already know what that is. )

 

[rugerpc]

Not only that - this entire discussion ruined a perfectly enjoyable story thread elsewhere on the forum before it hardly got off the ground.

 

[11top]

Murali from BAM sent me the Slippers. They were new :rock:

Key word highlighted above. :rofl: