People should stop obsessing about guitars being made in USA

[DreamTheaterRules]

Just bounced into Sweetwater to check:

SE Custom 24 = $999
S2 Custom 24 = $2249
Core Custom 24 = $4650

A very clear price/line differentiation, IMO.

Now with all US electronics, the S2 is a violin carve and a few other details from being the core Custom 24 I bought in 2012 for $2650 out the door. Yes that was a discount, which I'm assuming you can get on all of the above as well. But in my mind, there's a pretty clear difference between a grand, two grand and 4 1/2 grand. I'd love to see sales numbers, but think PRS would be foolish to ignore all buyers between 1K and $4500. Especially when they can serve those customers with an MIA product.

 

[PXR5]

Personally I believe its not desirable. I agree compared to Les Paul which has a large back angle for the headstock I can see it's probably less likely to break. But I've seen much more elegant and I believe stronger types of wood joint for the join. A large part of a Core is desirability backed by great build and quality control. I also think there is room for carbon fibre rods or indeed multi laminate necks for stability. Bass necks are often laminate. However one large joint relying solely on glue with a large surface oarea isn't desirable to me. Just like a Japanese or USA made guitar is more desirable than one made in China. Now if Andy Guyton told me scarfe joint are superior or he featured them in his guitars or Martyn Booth then I'll accept the explanation. How many people in the forum would prefer a 1 piece back or prefer solid maple tops to veneer. The veneer is fine but I bet 95% would rather a solid maple top.
I gig as a Bassist and am not precious about what can get stolen or damaged. But guitars are my guilty pleasure and luxury.

 

[Ballistic]

Completely disagree. The S2 line should be expanded, if anything. Now that they have US electronics, they provide some great guitars that even in todays economy are affordable. The only PRS guitars I've looked at with any interest in buying in the last 2 years have been S2 models or US bolt on models. The cores have priced themselves out of my interest range.

It seems you're basing your opinion purely on your own sense of value ($) and not what the market is demanding. The S2 misses the mark on the design aesthetic. Most people really don't care about the electronics, they'll change that stuff regardless (ask me how I know). Buyers want the proper PRS shape and fancy tops, plus all the signature models are in the SE line. An SE with a flame veneer is closer in appearance to a core than an S2. Nearly everyone that has brought me their SE to work on said they wanted the closest thing to the "original" (core) that was affordable. When I ask them about a used S2, some of them don't even know what that is.

 

[Broseph]

Do you find they resonate as well as a core. I'm still mot convinced about the neck scarf joint. And uncertain about the way the s2 necks are manufactured. I'd prefer the necks to be made like the cores. But could live with moon inlays and a simple finish like the S2 have. Have them made offshore for a sale price in line with the current S2 series.
I've not played a S2 since they first came out and at the time found it not worth the extra over the SE line and way off a Core.
I recently picked up a used core Singlecut Natural fixed bridge but 2 tone 1 volume for S2 Mcarty money. The finish is very simple it's all mahogany.

The fully USA s2 594 hold their own very well. I actually preferred them over the core versions. I had no issues with resonating. Sure the core looked prettier. But a blind test? Nobody could hear a difference. It’s strictly cosmetic going route of a new core. Which I can’t argue. The s2 carve is hated by some. I find it very comfortable.

 

[DreamTheaterRules]

It seems you're basing your opinion purely on your own sense of value ($) and not what the market is demanding.

Of course I am. That’s how life works. Everyone does it. Nobody here has ever bought any guitar without first deciding that it met their personal sense of value for what they were getting. MANY people have never owned a PRS because they think they are all overpriced. Some own multiple Private Stocks because they decided they were worth it. But… how do you know what the market is demanding? Do you have sales numbers to support…

The S2 misses the mark on the design aesthetic.

This is opinion. It’s half the price. Either you like it or you don’t. Tele’s are the most boring guitar “design aesthetic ever, and they’ve sold billions of them.

Buyers want the proper PRS shape and fancy tops, plus all the signature models are in the SE line. An SE with a flame veneer is closer in appearance to a core than an S2. Nearly everyone that has brought me their SE to work on said they wanted the closest thing to the "original" (core) that was affordable. When I ask them about a used S2, some of them don't even know what that is

Again, that’s opinion. If S2’s weren’t selling, PRS would quit making them. Instead, they seem to be expanding the line.

You’re talking to a guy with 6 US made PRS. NO S2s. I’m just not sure why you’d argue that there is a place in the line for $2K US made models. But again, that’s fine if that’s your opinion. I disagree.

 

[dogrocketp]

Do you find they resonate as well as a core. I'm still mot convinced about the neck scarf joint. And uncertain about the way the s2 necks are manufactured. I'd prefer the necks to be made like the cores. But could live with moon inlays and a simple finish like the S2 have. Have them made offshore for a sale price in line with the current S2 series.
I've not played a S2 since they first came out and at the time found it not worth the extra over the SE line and way off a Core.
I recently picked up a used core Singlecut Natural fixed bridge but 2 tone 1 volume for S2 Mcarty money. The finish is very simple it's all mahogany.

I have basically every level except private stock. The necks on the S2’s are phenomenal, as is the resonance on the 3 I own.I’m not afraid of a scarf joint, or a multi piece neck. I am afraid of wood that doesn’t vibrate, and bad frets. 2 of my S2’s, a Studio and a Custom 24, have stock pickups and Mann bridges. The third, an S2 custom 22 semi hollow, has a stock bridge and 59/09’s. The Semi was bought to flip, but once I set it up and played it, I knew all it needed were different pickups. A used core is always your best value. Don’t doubt the S2 line, the wood, neck, and fret work on mine were impeccable. Buy for sound. Screw status, line level, and new or old. Just get a guitar that makes you want to play.

 

[DreamTheaterRules]

A used core is always your best value. Don’t doubt the S2 line, the wood, neck, and fret work on mine were impeccable. Buy for sound. Screw status, line level, and new or old. Just get a guitar that makes you want to play.

I agree. My opinion is, IF you can find what you want in a used core, BUY IT! But used prices are NUTBAGCRAZY over the last couple years and... you are at the mercy of the what ever may be for sale at the time and at whatever prices... If there's a specific model you want... say I decided to try a 305, the I can look for them, HOPE to find one at a reasonable price, hope that the one that meets those to criteria has the colors/options I want, etc... But if I'm looking at a current model S2, I can shop hundreds of the model I want over a few months and get the color and options I want almost without question.

But I have a choice. If there is no S2 line, then you ONLY have used cores to shop from and that would probably drive prices up even further because they then have no competition except new core models.

 

[DreamTheaterRules]

Now if Andy Guyton told me scarfe joint are superior or he featured them in his guitars or Martyn Booth then I'll accept the explanation

Fair enough. Bob Taylor and many others have, so I've already excepted it. Any wood people know that a properly glued joint is stronger than the wood.

 

[bodia]

Fair enough. Bob Taylor and many others have, so I've already excepted it. Any wood people know that a properly glued joint is stronger than the wood.

The whole "glue issue" argument is such a non starter with respect to scarf joints. If glue wasn't "strong enough" why on earth would there be any set neck guitars. By that reasoning there should only be bolt-on and neck through guitars.

 

[DreamTheaterRules]

The whole "glue issue" argument is such a non starter with respect to scarf joints. If glue wasn't "strong enough" why on earth would there be any set neck guitars. By that reasoning there should only be bolt-on and neck through guitars.

I know this has been a few years ago, but our shop teacher in high school proved this when I was in 10th grade. We made multiple styles of wood joints and then "broke" them. And all we had was regular old elmers glue. Every single one broke the wood, not the joint. He said he always did that demo in his shop class to show that a properly made joint was stronger than the wood. He also made some that weren't probably fitted, to show that if you did it wrong, the glue would break sometimes before the wood, but if properly fitted and glued, the wood would always break first.
There are those that argue that a scarf joint headstock is superior tonally, to one carved out of one piece of wood, just because the joint is stronger than the carved out curve area. Stonger=stiffer=more vibration is the theory.

 

[Moondog Wily]

I know this has been a few years ago, but our shop teacher in high school proved this when I was in 10th grade. We made multiple styles of wood joints and then "broke" them. And all we had was regular old elmers glue. Every single one broke the wood, not the joint. He said he always did that demo in his shop class to show that a properly made joint was stronger than the wood. He also made some that weren't probably fitted, to show that if you did it wrong, the glue would break sometimes before the wood, but if properly fitted and glued, the wood would always break first.
There are those that argue that a scarf joint headstock is superior tonally, to one carved out of one piece of wood, just because the joint is stronger than the carved out curve area. Stonger=stiffer=more vibration is the theory.

One thing I would add is that, although the glue might be stronger than the wood, it does NOT make the same tones as the wood when vibrated by the same frequencies (or any frequencies for that matter). So strength of glue can certainly be stronger, but that does not automatically mean it sounds same or better than wood ;~)) I'll head back to my corner now!

 

[sergiodeblanc]

I feel it’s more exciting to throw caution to the wind and just be open to falling in love with a guitar.

 

[DreamTheaterRules]

One thing I would add is that, although the glue might be stronger than the wood, it does NOT make the same tones as the wood when vibrated by the same frequencies (or any frequencies for that matter). So strength of glue can certainly be stronger, but that does not automatically mean it sounds same or better than wood ;~)) I'll head back to my corner now!

If the wood is prepared properly, the glue is so thin it probably couldn't matter in and of itself, in the tone. But, I'm just a guy on the internet quoting what he's read.

 

[DreamTheaterRules]

I feel it’s more exciting to throw caution to the wind and just be open to falling in love with a guitar.

New member, but the wisdom of a sage... like, old person or something!

 

[Black Plaid]

Of course it's about the skill of the craftsperson and the materials, but you don't open a factory in a low income country to make instruments where quality is the ultimate goal.

 

[DISTORT6]

One thing I would add is that, although the glue might be stronger than the wood, it does NOT make the same tones as the wood when vibrated by the same frequencies (or any frequencies for that matter). So strength of glue can certainly be stronger, but that does not automatically mean it sounds same or better than wood ;~)) I'll head back to my corner now!

Like a maple top on a slab of mahogany?

 

[Moondog Wily]

Like a maple top on a slab of mahogany?

A great philosopher/luthier once said "Everything affects the tone". But I know nothing about the fine details (hence the last sentence in my previous post) ;~)) I am just a guy on the internet quoting what he has read!

 

[alantig]

I am just a guy on the internet quoting what he has read!

"Did you know men can breastfeed? It's true - I read it. I wrote it down and then I read it. I believe everything I read." - Bob Saget

 

[Moondog Wily]

"Did you know men can breastfeed? It's true - I read it. I wrote it down and then I read it. I believe everything I read." - Bob Saget

I have heard that! And to be clear, I was just quoting DTR ;~)) I have no original thoughts!!

But, I'm just a guy on the internet quoting what he's read.

 

[Ronald]

I will continue to choose to keep American craftsmen well paid and productive rather than offshore companies. I have one 1983 Ibanez AM50. It is as fine a guitar as any of the several PRS core guitars I have including 2 PS. It is not a qualitative issue. It does indeed matter to me where the instrument is made. On this one, I disagree with PRS entirely. I also have 1 Rick Turner Model 1. The several PRS I have are excellent in every way. The Rick Turner is exquisite and on another level and also made in USA.