Paul's Guitar - middle position question

[martie6621]

New (to me) 2019 Paul's guitar which is VG overall. I have a question about the tone and volume when the pickup selector is in the middle position. When in the middle the volume drops significantly - about half of the normal volume. This occurs no matter what how the 2 small toggles are engaged - both and either HB or SC modes. In additon the overall tone is very "out of phase" - sounds like a nasally wahwah in the cocked position. It gets some nice tones but it seems very (too) different to me. Curious that PRS designed this.

Does anyone know if this is normal for the volume output to do this in the middle position? I have not noticed this in any of the reviews I have read or on the ones on YT.

l like the guitar but want to love it more....

BTW this is the Core version not SE.

Thanks all.

Martie

 

[tyfu20]

Mine did not sound that way in the middle position. May be a wiring issue.

 

[Alnus Rubra]

Doesn’t sound right. With the coil taps/splits engaged you may experience a drop in output, as you will know.

If you’re not confident with wiring, I would find a luthier that is and get it checked.

 

[Andrew Paul]

New (to me) 2019 Paul's guitar which is VG overall. I have a question about the tone and volume when the pickup selector is in the middle position. When in the middle the volume drops significantly - about half of the normal volume. This occurs no matter what how the 2 small toggles are engaged - both and either HB or SC modes. In additon the overall tone is very "out of phase" - sounds like a nasally wahwah in the cocked position. It gets some nice tones but it seems very (too) different to me. Curious that PRS designed this.

Does anyone know if this is normal for the volume output to do this in the middle position? I have not noticed this in any of the reviews I have read or on the ones on YT.

l like the guitar but want to love it more....

BTW this is the Core version not SE.

Thanks all.

Martie

I will check mine tonight and get back to you, but I don’t recall that happening.

 

[garrettb]

Not normal. Sounds like somebody's been monkeying with it. Maybe they liked out of phase in the middle, or maybe they should've put down the soldering iron. Or maybe there's a bad connection on the toggle switch.

To start troubleshooting, it should be wired like this: https://d159anurvk4929.cloudfront.net/documents/paulsguitar_2017.pdf

 

[Lewguitar]

The magnet might be reversed in one pickup. If you take a magnet and hold it against the screw polepieces of one pickup and it attracts, then hold the same side of the magnet against the screw polepieces of the other pickup and it repels, that means the two pickups are magnetically out of phase and probably why they sound nasal and thin when combined.

If you're familiar with Peter Green, one of the pickups in his Les Paul was magnetically out phase with the other and when they were combined he got that signature nasal sound of his.

 

[Malloc]

It’s not terribly difficult to reverse the phase magnetically (flip one of them) or electrically (flip the hot/ground of one pickup). Biggest hangup would be rewiring MT style wiring if the tech has never done it before, but I can attest it’s possible with ~intermediate wiring proficiency.

 

[garrettb]

Based on these responses (thank you) it appears someone has made some changes under the hood to this guitar. I am not a technical person and cannot attempt to fix it.
How difficult would this be to correct to factory spec by a luthier? Do we need the schematic to know how to wire the pups per spec? I don't want a major repair bill since I am in a return period with the store. I don't think they misrepresented it and I like the guitar.

I gave the link to the wiring diagram in my previous post. Anyone experienced with wiring can match it up.

In your shoes, I'd ask for a partial refund to cover the wiring repair. Unless you bought it local of course, in which case I'd have the shop take care of it.

 

[Andrew Paul]

Garrett provided the schematic. Here are a couple pictures of my Paul’s guitar wiring if you just wanna photo visual. Probably hard to follow but take a look anyway. Maybe you can compare it to yours and the schematic

 

[martie6621]

I gave the link to the wiring diagram in my previous post. Anyone experienced with wiring can match it up.

In your shoes, I'd ask for a partial refund to cover the wiring repair. Unless you bought it local of course, in which case I'd have the shop take care of it.

Thank you

 

[Jazzedout]

Any pics? I would like to see how the neck pickup looks...
Maybe it is just mounted reverse?

 

[garrettb]

Garrett provided the schematic. Here are a couple pictures of my Paul’s guitar wiring if you just wanna photo visual. Probably hard to follow but take a look anyway. Maybe you can compare it to yours and the schematic

This is a newer one with the TCI pickups. 2020+ per PRS. I don't think it'll match the OP's 2019 guitar, but maybe. Here's the TCI diagram just in case:

https://support.prsguitars.com/hc/en-us/articles/4408349383963-Paul-s-Guitar-2020-Current-Wiring-Diagram

Any pics? I would like to see how the neck pickup looks...
Maybe it is just mounted reverse?

Rotating along the same plane as the strings won't impact phase.

 

[martie6621]

Checked the magnetic pull on the 2 pups and they are pulling the same direction.

Curious about the 2020 and later wiring diagrams maybe being different than this one, a 2019. Why and what were changed in the guitar? One of my observations on PRS is the incidence of updates and changes to a premium model. What would a 2020 do better than a 2019?

 

[Andrew Paul]

Checked the magnetic pull on the 2 pups and they are pulling the same direction.

Curious about the 2020 and later wiring diagrams maybe being different than this one, a 2019. Why and what were changed in the guitar? One of my observations on PRS is the incidence of updates and changes to a premium model. What would a 2020 do better than a 2019?

I thought 2019 Paul's had 408TCI pickups and wiring same as my 2020. I may be wrong. 408TCI pups were introduced in 2018 with the Paul's Experience Limited Edition. Can you provide a photo of the wiring in your control cavity?

 

[bodia]

I thought 2019 Paul's had 408TCI pickups and wiring same as my 2020. I may be wrong. 408TCI pups were introduced in 2018 with the Paul's Experience Limited Edition. Can you provide a photo of the wiring in your control cavity?

I thought so, too.

 

[garrettb]

The diagrams suggest that the Paul's got the TCI treatment for 2020. Could've been earlier; I haven't followed all the changes very closely the last several years. PRS have always been way better at making guitars than documenting things. Either way, diagrams for both styles are available.

@martie6621, the change to TCI means that the coil tap switches now have three rows of three lugs instead of two rows of three lugs. Visually, that's the dead giveaway for which version you have.

They use the extra row so that in single coil mode, the signal runs through a capacitor to tune the frequency response. I've only heard the TCI narrow 408 pickups on the ME V, but assuming they're the same pickups as in the Paul's, compared to the old version they sound more Stratty to me. Up to you if that's a good thing or a bad thing.

 

[martie6621]

Thanks mine has TCI pups per the hang tag. Will post a pic of the wiring cavity later today....

 

[bodia]

Fantastic looking guitar!

 

[Alnus Rubra]

What a beauty, congrats.