Paul's 85!

Discussion in 'Electric Instruments' started by 88prs, Oct 22, 2020.

  1. Revad

    Revad New Member

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    dont get me wrong ...
    I am not wondering about the price of a private stock (in that case your speach would be obvious, and i am completly into it)
    When i saw the teasing and the spec of that guitar i was expected a range of price beetween the modern eagle V and the graveyard 2.
    Not that ... so what did i miss ?
    Thats not a little difference
    A MEV is 10000 euros in europe
    Graveyard 2 about 12000
    The paul’s 85 is 15000 ...

    sorry but at some point there must be an explanation

    maybe the explanation will pop up if i see it for real !
     
  2. LSchefman

    LSchefman Hears Tones

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    Totally agree. I'll kick the can a little farther down the road:

    This isn't about the time spent making it, or the care put into it. The result of the effort is what you're buying. It's really about putting a price on an art form.

    Paul's PS runs are wonderful instruments, but they're also works of art in their own right (assuming for the moment that the luthier's art is as worthy of being called 'art' as any other creative endeavor). I have a couple of these runs. You might ask if I (as someone who sprung for them) think they're worth the money.

    Well.

    Since when has the equation of art to money ever made sense?

    A group of critics say this piece of art or that one is worth millions of dollars, and no one argues about it. Because the magic about art is that people realize, "Only a few of us are able to create something that." So they pay what they have to pay in order to acquire it. This is why owning great art has historically been the exclusive province of very wealthy people.

    In contrast, you can own a PS guitar, this combination of instrument and work of art, for about the same money as a pretty nice motorcycle. It actually takes more time to make, and uses rarer materials than the motorcycle, but that's largely irrelevant to the price of either one.

    Both are within reach of the ordinary dude. You don't have to be a billionaire to own one of these guitars. Maybe you have to do some saving. Maybe you have to get a little credit. But an ordinary person can actually buy either the guitar or the bike.

    As a musician, I'd rather own a PS than a motorcycle.

    If I bought the motorcycle, no one would question it, because it's large and shiny and you can go places on it.

    However, it actually takes longer to make a PS than it does a motorcycle. And I can 'go places' on the PS where a motorcycle can't go. Yet I'm sure there are people who doubt my sanity for getting them. So do I think the guitars were worth the money?

    Sure. Obviously. If not, I wouldn't buy one.

    Does it matter if someone else agrees? Nope. Why should it?
     
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  3. LSchefman

    LSchefman Hears Tones

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    The explanation is that's how much they are willing to sell you one for. What's simpler than that?

    It's not like taxes that you have to pay or you go to jail.

    It's your choice. Either you buy, or you don't. That's not up to them.
     
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  4. Revad

    Revad New Member

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    that was not the debate AT ALL
    But thanks for your point

    i never said it was not worth it
    I was just trying to understand

    so whats so special with pauls limited runs ?
     
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  5. veinbuster

    veinbuster Zombie Three, DFZ

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    The runs that Paul is most directly involved in tend to be for guitars that he wants to play; i.e. what is the best guitar he can build for himself at that moment.

    Just that is appealing to someone who likes guitar characteristics similar to what Paul likes. He can select wood better than any of us. He hears things that most of us can’t hear. The result is a better package than we could do ourselves if we went to the vault.

    So...people who want the best Paul can come up with today will pay a premium. This run is getting buyers fast enough that it probably could have been priced a bit higher. It will still be a great guitar in 20 years, even if there are some lines in the finish.

    A Paul run is almost always heirloom worthy.
     
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  6. toothace

    toothace Zombie Thirteen, DFZ

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    I disagree. PRS owes no explanation for what they price their product. They make something, they put a value on it, people decide if that's a value purchase for them. The historians here can correct me, but I believe that's how the free market works.
     
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  7. Revad

    Revad New Member

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    Thanks a lot !
    I understand the hype and the price then , that make sense
     
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  8. Revad

    Revad New Member

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    thank you for one more condescending comment

    the historians can correct me either but i never said it wasnt worth it , i never said what it should cost, just what i was expected
    so the « what did i miss » question was by pure humility

    but i get how sensitive it can be

    so i am sorry for the feelings that i hurt
    And thanks to those who actually help me in my understanding
     
  9. toothace

    toothace Zombie Thirteen, DFZ

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    Wasn't meant to be condescending...I'm sorry it was perceived that way.

    I get questioned all the time about my fees - 2 already today! (I'm a not-rich dentist) Bottom line is things cost what they cost. It's up to the consumer to decide if they are comfortable with that cost, to determine if it has "value" to them. The vendor/manufacturer/service provider is under no obligation to justify what they value their services or product at. How else would the cable companies be able to get away with everything?:confused:;)
     
  10. Revad

    Revad New Member

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    No problem ! ;-)

    actually if that sells its because it is the good price !

    For me, as a customer and far more as a guitar player, i need to understand how the builder estimate the value of its work . the price is a number so its easy to see it and point it, but the question was not just about the price but about the value of that work for PRS (it can be the woods, the specs, the finish, i dont know ! Or maybe its just « let put that price it will sell anyway! » and that doesnt bother me at all !)

    i have 5 PRS guitars , 4 of them are Private stock and 3 of these private stocks are 594 ... sometimes it is because how it looks , sometimes for the story behind, sometimes for the specs and sometimes its a combination of reasons ... and everybody have these own reasons

    whatever is the price, i am not interesting in that one ... (well until i have one in hands ;-) )
     
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  11. Dead&Co

    Dead&Co New Member

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  12. Rockmark

    Rockmark New Member

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    The proto is beautiful. Expensive, but that's where private stocks swim. I'm sure it will be a wonderful guitar. The issue I have is when pre ordering any of these special/very expensive runs is it's a coin toss what you may end up with looks wise. They will all have the same quality in the builds but you are obligated to buy whatever the dealer is sent. I learned that I like to see what my guitars look like before I plunk down the bigger bucks. Learned my lesson after preordering a new Dragon. Really disliked the top when it arrived and can honestly say I have seen much better tops on core off the shelf models. It was a major disappointment and totally uninspiring to play. Never again have bought another without first seeing pics. Now my new Dragon 35th has a dream top. However I waited till the end. When everyone thought they were mostly gone I was able to cherry pick mine from about 10 still available. I looked at all available out there and can say there was only one I liked more that was already gone. Patience pays.
    But regarding cost and value, it's whatever the market will bear between the seller and buyer. Always boils down to that. We are all big boys/girls when deciding how we are separated from our cash.
     
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  13. LSchefman

    LSchefman Hears Tones

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    I get what you're asking. I just don't think it's an answerable question, since it's both an artistic product and a musical instrument.

    I have a couple of the limited run PS guitars. I can't explain why they're more wonderful than some other guitar. I love the tone and they're gorgeous. What else can be said?

    Can I quantify why they cost more than my Wood Library guitars? I'm not sure I can, nor do I think there's much of a point to trying. They're all wonderful instruments.

    Why is the Mona Lisa more valuable than another very fine artist's paintings? You can buy larger, more lavishly illustrated canvases for a lot less money, by very fine, internationally beloved, artists. If there's a short answer to that question that doesn't involve a whole lot of speculation, I'd love to see it.
     
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  14. Tonart

    Tonart Tone of the Art......or is that backwards?

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    I think they would look great aged naturally. Just look at the early or pre factory guitars. They look nice!
     
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  15. Tonart

    Tonart Tone of the Art......or is that backwards?

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    Prescient words indeed. I can vouch for it. This tone and resonance on this guitar is indeed out of the ordinary. That Paul chose the woods personally is indeed one of the reasons I bought it.
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  16. docteurseb

    docteurseb New Member

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    Let's see...
    Compared to an identically spec'd one off Private Stock build (which by the way is more limited than a run of 80-120 identical guitars):
    • Private Stock HB 594: priced the same.
    • Graveyard I: same/cheaper, despite the exceptional tops
    • Graveyard II: considerably cheaper (you were getting the design cost of a new fretboard and veneer inlays for free)
    • Modern Eagle V: ever so slightly more expensive
    • Paul's 85: roughly 25-30% more expensive.
    All are art pieces.
    All are limited in their own way.

    Only one stands out, which can be a little bit shocking/disappointing at first, but that one too will be sold out sooner rather than later.
    If this has the specs you need, and you value Paul's involvement in the entire wood selection process, this is a fantastic guitar to add to a collection.
     
    #76 docteurseb, Oct 28, 2020
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2020
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  17. Dead&Co

    Dead&Co New Member

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    You get to own a guitar, personally hand-picked and created (Paul's own specs!), by the man who started the company in celebration of its 35th history. Not sure why this is even a discussion, tbh.

    [​IMG]
     
  18. DISTORT6

    DISTORT6 NJ Devil

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    When the company who started the whole figured maple top craze gets a batch of wood that even they say is spectacular...
     
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  19. docteurseb

    docteurseb New Member

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    FYI, the one at Ish just got back on the market and is up for grabs (based on their IG account).
     
  20. Cheddar Kung Pao

    Cheddar Kung Pao New Member

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    yeah i had to cancel my order unfortunately. :(
     

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