Pattern thin versus pattern regular

[Sculptair]

Was in my local guitar shop over the weekend playing the only custom 24-08 they said they had in stock. It had a pattern thin neck. While I was there they found another 24-08 but it's tag said it was a McCarty with a pattern regular. I couldn't feel the difference between the necks... but then again the tag was wrong about the model of guitar. For those that have played both, how obvious is the difference between a pattern thin and regular neck?

 

[Mozzi]

That's a very difficult question to answer because some people are far more sensitive to even the smallest difference. I have at least 1 guitar with each of the 4 pattern neck shapes - including Pattern Thin and Pattern Regular (as well as Pattern and Pattern Vintage) but I am not overly sensitive to the differences. As long as its not ridiculously narrow/thin or overly fat/wide I can happily play any guitar comfortably without cramping or pain.

It hardly registers for me the difference when switching between Pattern Thin and Pattern Regular as other factors, like switch positions take more of my attention. Its no more than a secondary and fleeting thought that it feels 'different' but not different enough to occupy my thoughts any more than that. It doesn't even register if I were to play one today and the other one tomorrow as being different - it only feels different when going from one to the next so there is some immediate reference.

I am not saying that the difference is so small that its pretty much the same, just that for me the difference isn't that different that it's like going from a big chunky baseball bat neck to a wizard thin neck but for someone who is very sensitive to neck thicknesses, that maybe their perception which is why I think this is a difficult question to answer. There are some that find the Asymmetric Pattern Vintage to be very chunky - yet its no wider at the nut than a Pattern Thin Neck and only 1/32nd inch thicker than a Pattern regular (that's just 0.8mm according to PRS measurements. I think the thin maybe 1.6mm thinner (its either 1/32nd or 1/16th inch thinner than the regular) so its not a massive reduction and still keeps the same C shape too so its only slightly different.

The best bet is to try a guitar you definitely know is Pattern Thin (Custom 24's are more commonly Thin) and a Pattern Regular (Custom 22 is always Pattern Regular as standard) and just grip the neck at various points up the neck and see how much of a difference it feels to you. I am not a fan of very thin necks but I don't have any issue with the Pattern Thin at all....

 

[mark cassidy]

Sorry. I love PRS guitars. I have three. I have no idea what neck they have - pattern thin or regular. I just love playing them. Especially the S2 24. I know the experts at PRS will argue but I believe it is a cosmetic thing, intended to attract sales. The human hand is much more pliable and adaptable than a tiny fraction of an inch diameter on a wooden neck. I had a very sore thumb a while back - documented in these pages - which I attributed to the guitar I was obsessed with at the time, the S2. I let my hand rest a spell and then changed my playing style slightly so that I was not picking up quite so many base notes with my thumb. issue solved. Django played any old guitar he could find with just a couple fingers. Love PRS but this is a cosmetic thing I think. Obviously just my 2c though!!

 

[László]

Sorry. I love PRS guitars. I have three. I have no idea what neck they have - pattern thin or regular. I just love playing them. Especially the S2 24. I know the experts at PRS will argue but I believe it is a cosmetic thing, intended to attract sales.

Mark, I’m sorry but that’s simply a load. It may be the case for you, but your personal conclusion can’t be generalized to the majority of serious players.

Most professionals I know from session work are quite picky about what carve they will play. And yes, the hand is very sensitive to small differences in thickness. We can feel the tiny difference between regular paper and card stock, and a heavy pick and a medium pick.

I can adapt to a lot of neck carves (I’ve been at this guitar thing for 52 years), though not the Pattern Thin; it doesn’t fit my hand well. And that matters — it affects how I play during a session I’m getting paid to perform on.

By the way, one issue when we’re discussing neck width (as opposed to depth) is the string spacing. It’s different depending on the width of the neck. This matters to some players for fast picking, arpeggios, etc. I play the Pattern Regular one I have a little differently from my Pattern and Pattern Vintage necks. Love it, don’t have to move the pick as far, and am actually a little faster on it.

I’m relatively adaptable to various carves, but I can’t live with Wide Thin or Pattern Thin for very long. I can play it, and have owned a couple because the tone of a particular guitar appealed to me, but they didn’t stick around.

It’s good that PRS offers different neck choices. It’s not cosmetic, it’s not BS, it matters to experienced players, and that’s the very reason having a choice helps with sales.

PRS would be foolish not to offer players a choice of carves.

 

[HANGAR18]

Was in my local guitar shop over the weekend playing the only custom 24-08 they said they had in stock. It had a pattern thin neck. While I was there they found another 24-08 but it's tag said it was a McCarty with a pattern regular. I couldn't feel the difference between the necks... but then again the tag was wrong about the model of guitar. For those that have played both, how obvious is the difference between a pattern thin and regular neck?

I have found it to be extremely difficult to tell the difference between a Pattern Thin and a Pattern Regular so I don't mind either one. What I do object to are the "Pattern" neck carves like they typically put on Custom 22's as they are too fat for my liking.

 

[bodia]

Was in my local guitar shop over the weekend playing the only custom 24-08 they said they had in stock. It had a pattern thin neck. While I was there they found another 24-08 but it's tag said it was a McCarty with a pattern regular. I couldn't feel the difference between the necks... but then again the tag was wrong about the model of guitar. For those that have played both, how obvious is the difference between a pattern thin and regular neck?

Here's a visual representation.

 

[mark cassidy]

Hey, I really appreciate you taking the time to respond to my post! And I bow to your obvious knowledge and experience. My own experience is as an amateur hacker who loves the heck out of guitars. I would have thought, however, that a top player would be able to sound top with whatever guitar he was sort of stuck with. As a session musician, do you take like a rack of guitars to every session gig, or do studios have stock that you have to manage with? Or a combination? Given Jeff Beck's predilection for working on hot rod cars I find it difficult to believe that he worries much about sensitive hands. Either way, I find it very cool to hear from someone in the business, doing this to earn a living. Well done and good luck to you sir!! UOTE="LSchefman, post: 514949, member: 812"]Mark, I’m sorry but that’s simply a load. It may be the case for you, but your personal conclusion can’t be generalized to the majority of serious players.

Most professionals I know from session work are quite picky about what carve they will play. And yes, the hand is very sensitive to small differences in thickness. We can feel the tiny difference between regular paper and card stock, and a heavy pick and a medium pick.

I can adapt to a lot of neck carves (I’ve been at this guitar thing for 52 years), though not the Pattern Thin; it doesn’t fit my hand well. And that matters — it affects how I play during a session I’m getting paid to perform on.

By the way, one issue when we’re discussing neck width (as opposed to depth) is the string spacing. It’s different depending on the width of the neck. This matters to some players for fast picking, arpeggios, etc. I play the Pattern Regular one I have a little differently from my Pattern and Pattern Vintage necks. Love it, don’t have to move the pick as far, and am actually a little faster on it.

I’m relatively adaptable to various carves, but I can’t live with Wide Thin or Pattern Thin for very long. I can play it, and have owned a couple because the tone of a particular guitar appealed to me, but they didn’t stick around.

It’s good that PRS offers different neck choices. It’s not cosmetic, it’s not BS, it matters to experienced players, and that’s the very reason having a choice helps with sales.

PRS would be foolish not to offer players a choice of carves.[/QUOTE]

 

[László]

I would have thought, however, that a top player would be able to sound top with whatever guitar he was sort of stuck with. As a session musician, do you take like a rack of guitars to every session gig, or do studios have stock that you have to manage with?

I mostly do session work on the ad music tracks I produce for clients, but have done many for other producers, too, over the years. Other producers who’ve had me do the work know that I bring my own guitars, and they know I play PRS. Usually we discuss it, and I bring one, but most often I just have them send me a file and I do the work at my place.

It’s different for players who do record dates. The ad world is a smaller community, we work a bit differently than record makers, and in my area we all know each other and are friendly.

There are a few things I do stylistically that some of my producer friends like, so when they need that, I get to do sessions for them.

Here’s a track I did for Cadillac several years ago that’s kind of typical of what I like to do as a composer/keyboardist/guitar player. I’ve posted this before, apologies if you’ve already seen it.

 

[Gigi]

The best bet is to try a guitar you definitely know is Pattern Thin (Custom 24's are more commonly Thin) and a Pattern Regular (Custom 22 is always Pattern Regular as standard) and just grip the neck at various points up the neck and see how much of a difference it feels to you. I am not a fan of very thin necks but I don't have any issue with the Pattern Thin at all....

You are wrong, custom 22 never came with regular (or standard) or more recent pattern regular neck profile, but wide fat/thin or pattern/pattern thin. by 2017 only pattern judging from catalogs.
custom 24 are thin for the most and regular.

i think that it's the shape more than the depth that makes us confortable or not with neck profiles.

 

[HANGAR18]

It would have been nice if they had chooses a less confusing set of names for their neck carves.

 

[Mozzi]

I don't know why I wrote Custom 22 - what I meant was 509 and have no idea why I typed Custom 22. The Custom 22, like my HBii is Pattern neck and I knew that - the only Pattern Regular Neck I have is my 509 which I know only comes as 'Pattern Regular' as standard. I don't have a Custom 22 myself - although my Special Semi-Hollow is based on a Custom 22 and I believe it has a 'Pattern' neck - another reason why I have no idea I typed Custom 22.

If I want to compare Pattern Thin to Pattern Regular, I would know to pick my Custom 24 and 509 so it makes no sense as to why I typed Custom 22. I chalk it down to not paying attention to what I typed but thank you for picking up on it.

 

[Mozzi]

It would have been nice if they had chooses a less confusing set of names for their neck carves.

I do agree - but Pattern makes sense as the CNC uses a 'Pattern' to carve the neck shapes so Pattern makes sense. Pattern and Pattern Regular seem to be the most confusing and the only difference seems to be width at the nut with the Regular being the odd one out of all the Pattern shapes and being narrower at the nut. All the other 3 Pattern shapes have the same width at the nut. Thin and Vintage though are less confusing...

 

[László]

I do agree - but Pattern makes sense as the CNC uses a 'Pattern' to carve the neck shapes so Pattern makes sense. Pattern and Pattern Regular seem to be the most confusing and the only difference seems to be width at the nut with the Regular being the odd one out of all the Pattern shapes and being narrower at the nut. All the other 3 Pattern shapes have the same width at the nut. Thin and Vintage though are less confusing...

Ya know, if PRS really wants to sell guitars, the company should name the carves after me:

“The Fat Les,” “The Fat and Old Les,” ”The Svelte Les” and “The Les Who Never Drove A Longer, Lower Wider ‘62 Pontiac.”

To make it easier for customers to figure out, there could be a picture of me on the hang tag as merely fat, a few years ago, fat and old, as I am now, svelte as I was until I got all tubby and old, and a picture of a “Longer, Lower, Wider” ‘62 Pontiac.

I must add the observation that one didn’t often see 1962 Pontiac Grand Prix’ shipped to quaint European cities for trendy couple vacations...at least as far as I know.

I should add a personal confession: I scored a lot of Pontiac ads back in the day, and now they don’t make them any more. It appears that I killed the brand.

 

[Parralax view]

Every time I see an old Pontiac ad it reminds me of David McDavid Pontiac in Dallas Texas. They went through a series of Great Danes named Wide-Track as their mascots...As to the neck profile, all I know is wide-fat and it suits me fine.

 

[mark cassidy]

I mostly do session work on the ad music tracks I produce for clients, but have done many for other producers, too, over the years. Other producers who’ve had me do the work know that I bring my own guitars, and they know I play PRS. Usually we discuss it, and I bring one, but most often I just have them send me a file and I do the work at my place.

It’s different for players who do record dates. The ad world is a smaller community, we work a bit differently than record makers, and in my area we all know each other and are friendly.

There are a few things I do stylistically that some of my producer friends like, so when they need that, I get to do sessions for them.

Here’s a track I did for Cadillac several years ago that’s kind of typical of what I like to do as a composer/keyboardist/guitar player. I’ve posted this before, apologies if you’ve already seen it.

LSChefman - Many apologies for not responding before now, was busy with the boring necessity of work!! Are you effing kidding me?!! This is brilliant!! You certainly don't need a hacker like me to tell you that but WELL DONE anyway and a tip of my hat to the discipline and skill this obviously requires. And for Cadillac. Woohoo!

 

[Casi1]

The Pattern Thin felt ‘flatter’ to my hand but not by much in comparison to Pattern Regular. There was less in the palm. However, Pattern Regular has always felt thin to me in comparison to the old Standard/Regular.

Basically, if you handed me a Pattern Thin, I’d immediately know it was a Pattern Thin, but if you handed me a Pattern Regular, I wouldn’t be able to tell you if it was a Pattern Thin or Regular, but I’d know it was too Thin for me.

If you find Pattern Regular comfortable, then you might not notice a difference at all.

 

[Sculptair]

Thx for all the great replies. I went back to that shop to play both of those guitars and the only differences I could tell were the string action and the tone. The thin had higher action and the regular had a richer tone. I took turns playing each guitar multiple times and became more and more comfortable with their playability with a slight edge to the regular...which I attributed to it’s lower action.

 

[László]

LSChefman - Many apologies for not responding before now, was busy with the boring necessity of work!! Are you effing kidding me?!! This is brilliant!! You certainly don't need a hacker like me to tell you that but WELL DONE anyway and a tip of my hat to the discipline and skill this obviously requires. And for Cadillac. Woohoo!

I really appreciate the kind comments! Thanks, so glad you like it!