Overall length Custom 22 vs CE 24

Discussion in 'Electric Instruments' started by Dave_W, Aug 15, 2019.

  1. Dave_W

    Dave_W New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2019
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    1
    Sort of a strange question - but is the overall length of these 2 guitars the same? eg end of headstock to end of body? I know the scale length is identical and I would assume that the neck pickup just gets moved backwards a bit to allow for the additional frets, but I thought it was worth asking. I used to play a SG that sat uncomfortably far away from my fretting hand and hated it. I loved the comfort of the custom 22 but realized that the satin finish of the neck and the maple neck of the CE24 might be right up my alley.

    Thanks!!!
     
  2. dogrocketp

    dogrocketp I drank the PRS kool aid, and it was tasty!

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2013
    Messages:
    2,113
    Likes Received:
    1,629
    I'll give you the forum approved answer. I go from 22 to 24 frets with no problem because of the balance. They each have a different sound. Buy them both.
     
  3. Mozzi

    Mozzi https://imgur.com/user/BAMozzy

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2018
    Messages:
    1,202
    Likes Received:
    1,643
    Actually, the bridge and bridge Pick-up get pulled a bit close to the neck. If they just added 2 'extra' frets and moved the neck, they would be much more difficult to use because of the body being in the way. The addition of two frets isn't all that much in terms of extra length, its not as if the two frets are as wide as just the first fret - but it does mean the 'neck' is a bit longer.

    If you look closely, you will see that the neck joins the body at different frets - more obvious on the top side I think because of the scoop on the lower horn - depending on whether its a 22 or 24 fret guitar. If you look at the Custom 22 and Custom 24 (as these are very similar looking) you will also see that the 22 fret guitar has less 'wood' from the base of the guitar to the bridge than the Custom 24 because the Custom 24's bridge and bridge PU have had to be shifted to account for the slightly longer neck.

    I know that the 'bridge' PU sounds pretty much the same and its the 'neck' PU that changes. Its no wonder people think that must mean the Neck PU must have moved but the reality is that the bridge and bridge PU have moved but the distance between the bridge and neck has reduced. The Pick-ups are dependent on the distance from the bridge as that is the starting point of the string and any vibration with the 'end' point shifting depending on where you fret the note (or nut if you pluck it open). Because the Bridge PU is the same distance from the bridge in both the Custom 22 and 24 as it, along with the bridge, was moved closer to the neck, its sound doesn't change but because the neck is now 'closer' to the 'starting point' of the string, it changes the tone.

    Overall, the length of a Custom 24 is a bit longer thanks to the addition of those 2 frets but its not a big deal and certainly not as long as some guitars as it has a relatively small headstock because it has 3 tuners on either side instead of 6 in a line. Its perhaps a couple of CM's more as the two extra frets are also the two slimmest but I bet you wouldn't really notice. Even in a shop next to each other, a Custom 22 and Custom 24 look virtually identical in size and length with only the owl as an indication of which is which. Obviously if you start to look very closely you will see the neck meets the body at different frets and the bridge and bridge PU are moved closer to the neck but the extra length of one isn't immediately obvious. There are still some that think the neck PU is moved to accommodate the extra frets which only proves they cannot detect the difference in length of each.
     
  4. bodia

    bodia Authorities said.....best leave it.....unsolved

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2015
    Messages:
    16,488
    Likes Received:
    20,470
    Best. Advice. Ever.
     
    LSchefman, Boogie and Bowtiefanatc like this.
  5. Going Modal

    Going Modal I should be practicing right now.

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2019
    Messages:
    11
    Likes Received:
    12
    Mozzi is totally right--most people think the neck PU gets moved down/in, but it's really the bridge, bridge PU, and ultimately the nut & headstock that move up/out. (They all move out exactly the length of those 2 added frets, and the neck is thus longer.) Probably not hugely noticeable in playing, though.
     
    LSchefman likes this.
  6. veinbuster

    veinbuster Freeze zone

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2012
    Messages:
    9,373
    Likes Received:
    9,523
    Exactly.
    I mostly play 22 fret, but never notice a difference when switching to a 24, except for a few songs I play that need the really high E that the 24 lets me play.
     
    LSchefman and Bowtiefanatc like this.
  7. Callan

    Callan hack guitarist..

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2014
    Messages:
    248
    Likes Received:
    447
  8. Micky!

    Micky! Dragon trainer

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2019
    Messages:
    70
    Likes Received:
    166
    Does the scale moves up, or are the horns deeper?
     
  9. veinbuster

    veinbuster Freeze zone

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2012
    Messages:
    9,373
    Likes Received:
    9,523
    The horns are the same. The neck is longer so to keep the scale the same, the bridge is further up the body by the length of the two addition neck frets. The result is that the neck pickup is that much closer to the bridge pickup.
     
    LSchefman likes this.
  10. Dave_W

    Dave_W New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2019
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    1
    If you had a 22 and 24 next to each other, would the 24 be taller by the amount of the 2 frets?
     
  11. Mozzi

    Mozzi https://imgur.com/user/BAMozzy

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2018
    Messages:
    1,202
    Likes Received:
    1,643
    The illustration shows exactly what changes and, as illustrated, the body shape (inc the Horns) does not change at all. The only thing that changes is the position of the bridge and bridge pickup as well as the neck length. The extra 2 frets, both the smallest frets on the neck, is the difference in neck length. The nut is slightly further from the body on the Custom 24.

    The neck joins the body at the 20th fret with a Custom 22 and the 22nd fret with the Custom 24. If they moved the neck PU to add an extra 2 frets, the neck would join at the same 20th fret making the extra 2 frets much more difficult to reach because of the body and heel joint. Even if you don't play above the 22nd fret, its easier to use the 22nd fret on a Custom 24.

    It shouldn't really make any major difference. You can either make slight adjustments of where you place your hand to pick and fret OR you move the guitar a fraction further back so you strum and fret exactly the same as a Custom 22. The scale length is exactly the same so you either move your hands a little further forward or most logically, move the guitar a bit further back. The BIGGEST thing to consider isn't the number of frets, the extra length, the body shape (both are the same here anyway), its the difference the position of the neck Pickup in relation to the bridge makes. As 4 out of the 5 (assuming both are the 5-way blade version) use the neck, even with a 3-way, that's 2 out of the 3, use the neck pickup, that's the majority of the tones these guitars offer. If you never go above the 12th fret, there is the tonal difference that people should focus on far more than fret count.

    The only decision really should be which, if not BOTH, guitar is going to give you the tone you prefer, want and/or need. The 24 has a brighter neck PU, as you would expect as its closer to the bridge. Unless you really need 24 frets which really makes the decision for you, then the only decision is which one gives you the tones you are looking for (if you can't have both).
     
    shimmilou and LSchefman like this.
  12. Mozzi

    Mozzi https://imgur.com/user/BAMozzy

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2018
    Messages:
    1,202
    Likes Received:
    1,643
    Yes! but remember, the two extra frets are the two smallest frets. Combined, they are smaller than just the first fret so its a very small difference overall...
     
    LSchefman likes this.
  13. Dave_W

    Dave_W New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2019
    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    1

    For sure - it would be less than an inch. I don't have any 24 fret guitars (yet...lol), but there might be one in my near future
     
    LSchefman likes this.
  14. Mozzi

    Mozzi https://imgur.com/user/BAMozzy

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2018
    Messages:
    1,202
    Likes Received:
    1,643
    I have a Custom 24 and the Special 22 Semi-hollow which is an expanded (in terms of tonal variety) Custom 22 with the same trem bridge and going back and forth between them, the extra 'length' is not noticeable at all. I probably sit the guitar slightly further back so my hands are in the same position relative to my body and do this automatically. My Custom 24 has a different neck (Pattern Thin) so there is a slight difference - not enough that it really registers and switching between my guitars, the biggest thing is getting used to the slightly different positions of the knobs, blades, switches and mini-toggles. That requires more getting used to, more thought. The thinner neck of my Custom, despite not even registering the majority of the time, is more noticeable than the length.

    I honestly think that the difference on tone is far more a reason to buy (or not) than anything else. If you need 24 frets, then you will buy the Custom 24 regardless but for the majority who never really go above the 20th fret (if at all), the decision should be tonal.
     
    LSchefman likes this.
  15. Micky!

    Micky! Dragon trainer

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2019
    Messages:
    70
    Likes Received:
    166
    So basically the Neck PU remain at the same position on the body, but the neck, the bridge PU and the Bridge goes up.

    Anyway for me I tried a C24 and a really disliked the neck position (lack of bass).

    But several things altered my feeling during this test:
    - The amp was not set-up to my taste and the amp was not my favorite (certainly because it was too new to me)
    - The regular neck profile is not what I like.
    - and I am not sure to be a fan of VB/HFS set...

    Anyway there is a 2016 official video that compare C22 and C24, and I definitely prefer C22


    And I am clearly the kind of guy to leave frets above the 20th alone :D
     
    LSchefman likes this.
  16. alantig

    alantig SSBMA

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2012
    Messages:
    8,546
    Likes Received:
    9,506
    Not if they were laying down. Then it would be longer. ;)
     
  17. LSchefman

    LSchefman Hears Tones

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2012
    Messages:
    23,250
    Likes Received:
    16,629
    There’s a slight sonic advantage to the 24 fret guitar playing through heavy distortion - because the midrange is more prominent, and the bass is tighter, there’s good “cut” in a mix, and a little less mud.

    The 22 fret guitar has a fuller tone played clean or with mild distortion.

    So depending on what you want to accomplish, both are great options.
     
    sergiodeblanc, veinbuster and bodia like this.
  18. Mozzi

    Mozzi https://imgur.com/user/BAMozzy

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2018
    Messages:
    1,202
    Likes Received:
    1,643
    Basically, the neck PU doesn't move - the routed cavity is in the same place. Because of the extra two frets, the 'nut' is slightly further away from the neck PU. To keep the same scale length, the Bridge and Bridge PU is brought forward a bit towards the neck.

    Whether you feel it lacks Bass or not, or maybe its because the Pick-up is a bit brighter so you hear more of the high-end which makes the other seem like it has more bass rather than being 'less bright'

    - The amp of course can compensate with some tweaks and the array of pedals can also be tweaked to suit the flavour of tone you want. Having a bit more brightness from the neck can be beneficial in a mix, give a bit more clarity and stand out against the bass and drums.
    - The Custom 24 comes with the Pattern Thin and Pattern Regular neck, I don't think the Custom 22 comes in Pattern Thin (just Pattern Regular) as standard. If the Regular neck profile isn't your thing, then the Custom 24 offers a Thin neck and you may have to pick a 594 (Pattern Vintage) as a 22 fret Core model - or he DGT for example.
    - The Custom 22 and 24 both come with the 85/15 Pick-ups if you buy NEW. That also goes for the CE24 and you get the 85/15 'S' Pickups for the SE/S2 version(s) of these guitars. I don't know exactly when PRS replaced the VB/HFS set but any PRS with these are 'used' and that's if they haven't been switched out. You also have no idea if the guitars are set-up properly with the right Pick-up height - whether that means 'right' by PRS spec or right for you - these can be different.

    I also won't give my thoughts/opinions on used gear - especially if its not my 'used' gear. Firstly, its not the current specs and relying on the used market to be selling a 'stock' older model. By stock, I also mean that it is 'factory' set - never had the PU's or electronics messed with and set-up to be exactly as it was when it left PRS. Certainly for the last few years, the Custom 22/24 has come with 85/15's which you may prefer in either/both 22 and 24 fret guitars - more than the VB/HFS PU's.

    There is NOTHING wrong with preferring either the 22 or 24 fret guitars, preferring the tone of one for whatever reason you want. Picking a guitar on its tonal quality/difference is, in my opinion, far more important than picking one because it has 24 frets or because its fractionally shorter. That has been my entire point in this discussion. People shouldn't be concerned whether the Neck PU was moved or the bridge, should worry about which is the shorter/longer guitar. The neck carve difference can be minimised if you look for Pattern Regular Custom 24's and even that isn't a big difference - the Thin isn't 'Wizard' Thin and the Regular isn't a baseball bat neck either. If you don't or very very rarely go above the 20th fret, then it only comes down to the tonal difference which isn't 'massive' but it is certainly audibly different as the reason to buy either. Unless you can see the owl. it can be incredibly difficult to determine which is which visually and I bet if you were blindfolded, assuming both have the same neck, you probably wouldn't notice the difference in terms of feel and playability - you would have to rely on the tones of the neck PU only to detect a difference. Point is, they are incredibly close and the tonal variation is the primary reason to buy either and own both because of the tonal difference.

    If I didn't have the Special 22, I wouldn't feel like the Custom 22 would be a pointless purchase because I have a Custom 24. It would be a different enough (4 out 5 tones are 'different' because of the neck) guitar to add to my tonal palette...
     
    bodia and Dave_W like this.
  19. Gigi

    Gigi New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2018
    Messages:
    40
    Likes Received:
    49
    I was looking at the catalog and saw that the Custom 22 now comes only with the pattern neck profile.
    So no more pattern thin...
     
  20. sergiodeblanc

    sergiodeblanc Get in, loser, we’re going shopping.

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2012
    Messages:
    18,931
    Likes Received:
    24,402
    There is a god...
     
    bodia, LSchefman and Black Plaid like this.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice