OK, Stuff About Cables Yet Again - With Video.

[László]

PRS does not give a hint about the capacity of their - e.g. 18ft cables. VOVOX does with 75 pF/m as a physical measure.

However, VanDamme does spec the capacitance, and they make the PRS cable. It's the same as their Pro XKE line.

The capacitance is about 25 pf/foot, which totals about the same capacitance as the Vovox' 75pF per meter. As far as I know, the PRS cable is a little more flexible, which to me is a good thing.

This is physical bulls#*t. Sure, silver has a low DC resistance. But not zero. The overall DC resistance of a Zephyr pickup is 5.36% lower than an ordinary singlecoil... And our ears won't recognize any difference.

There are criteria beyond DC resistance that matter with pickups. But I have no experience with the pickups you mention.

 

[László]

The trick, to me, is getting a cable that does what you want and then setting your tone up around that as a known quantity.

Absolutely.

I also like Mogami and Canare cable terminated with mostly Neutrik connectors. They’ve been reliable performance cables for years. Part of “reliable,” pertinent to part of Les’ point, is that they always sound the same placed in the circuit. That translates into a consistent tone, easier setup, and less tweaking knobs to get what I want. The other part of reliable comes from good construction of the cable itself, and in the completed assembly.

Agree. Also noise rejection and lack of handling noise matter. One thing I like about the PRS/VanDamme is there's no noticeable handling noises that you can get with some cables. Same with the Sommer.

“There ain’t no good guy. There ain’t no bad guy. There’s only you and me, and we just disagree.”

Yes, and wasn't that a great song?

 

[Maertl513]

@László, I neither can provide personal experiences with those spectactular - by their advertising - pickups.
I consume occasionally Prof. Dr. Manfred Zollner's entertaining and interesting videos, in whom he describes, why the one or the other told truth about electric guitars (and periphery likewise amps, cables and so on) is proven wrong by physical analysis.
The TCI pickups would have been developed much earlier, if someone at PRS would have read books of Helmut Lemme, which have been published many years before.

(around 1:33 min there is a graph depicting the different curves of magnettypes, after that he elaborates on TCIs).

"We named it before we understand it." is a worthwhile to mention quotation. The deduction could be: trial and error approach or Eureka! by accidence instead of asking scientists.

On the other hand side: We like the PRS guitars.
But the more I reflect about the topics digged into, I go in distance to the whole tone wood discussion. The guitar material need to support the strings in swinging for a sufficient sustain.
For the electrical part of the guitar nothing of the resonating wood affects the magnetic field of the pickup.

 

[RickP]

Yes, and wasn't that a great song?

Absolutely. Never seem to tire of hearing it!

 

[deathworlder]

However, VanDamme does spec the capacitance, and they make the PRS cable. It's the same as their Pro XKE line.

The capacitance is about 25 pf/foot, which totals about the same capacitance as the Vovox' 75pF per meter. As far as I know, the PRS cable is a little more flexible, which to me is a good thing.

There are criteria beyond DC resistance that matter with pickups. But I have no experience with the pickups you mention.

You ever experimented with hi-cap wire like Van Damme session grade 125?

Wonder what a vintage cable would measure...?

 

[László]

You ever experimented with hi-cap wire like Van Damme session grade 125?

I have, but not that one.

Their Lo-cap silver stuff is 55 pf per METER, not foot. That's lower capacitance than the Van Damme XKE (less than 18 pF).

The Medium cap one at 90 oF per METER translates to a cap per FOOT substantially lower than Mogami, Canare and most other cables. Mogami, for example, is close to 50 pF per foot.

The Hi Cap one is about comparable to Mogami. So it's not all that high cap.

I've used cables with higher capacitance as measured by my former studio tech. Didn't much care for them.

Wonder what a vintage cable would measure...?

I doesn't matter to me what a vintage cable would measure. The only thing I can control is the now; can't change the past, can't predict the future. So I like what I like, now.

I started gigging in 1966 and had plenty of experience with the old stuff. Including the 3 curly cables going to my early Vox wah, Maestro fuzz, and '67 Black Panel Bassman head and cab. Capacitance was probably off the charts. Probably lacked high frequencies, but...

I made up for it by playing at very, very loud volumes! Today you'd get kicked out of a club playing like that.

We didn't know any better. We didn't even have the bright nickel plated steel strings that came out a couple of years later.

We ran the PA for vocals only, and didn't mic up the cabs. We just cranked 'em. It's different now, even live, let alone in the studio. Different context entirely.

In fact, bands would play arena gigs well into the late '60s with only the vocals going into the PAs. That's why you'd see players with multiple amps on a stage. Even loud bands like Cream (who I saw live). They needed them!

I've been recording my ad music work professionally since 1989. It's nice to have high frequencies when I want them. And when I don't, there are tone controls -- I use them constantly while playing.

So yes, I'd rather have the option to determine the frequencies I want to hear for myself, instead of letting the cable make my choices.

 

[deathworlder]

I have, but not that one.

Their Lo-cap silver stuff is 55 pf per METER, not foot. That's lower capacitance than the Van Damme XKE (less than 18 pF).

The Medium cap one at 90 oF per METER translates to a cap per FOOT substantially lower than Mogami, Canare and most other cables. Mogami, for example, is close to 50 pF per foot.

The Hi Cap one is about comparable to Mogami. So it's not all that high cap.

I've used cables with higher capacitance as measured by my former studio tech. Didn't much care for them.

I doesn't matter to me what a vintage cable would measure. The only thing I can control is the now; can't change the past, can't predict the future. So I like what I like, now.

I started gigging in 1966 and had plenty of experience with the old stuff. Including the 3 curly cables going to my early Vox wah, Maestro fuzz, and '67 Black Panel Bassman head and cab. Capacitance was probably off the charts. Probably lacked high frequencies, but...

I made up for it by playing at very, very loud volumes! Today you'd get kicked out of a club playing like that.

We didn't know any better. We didn't even have the bright nickel plated steel strings that came out a couple of years later.

We ran the PA for vocals only, and didn't mic up the cabs. We just cranked 'em. It's different now, even live, let alone in the studio. Different context entirely.

In fact, bands would play arena gigs well into the late '60s with only the vocals going into the PAs. That's why you'd see players with multiple amps on a stage. Even loud bands like Cream (who I saw live). They needed them!

I've been recording my ad music work professionally since 1989. It's nice to have high frequencies when I want them. And when I don't, there are tone controls -- I use them constantly while playing.

So yes, I'd rather have the option to determine the frequencies I want to hear for myself, instead of letting the cable make my choices.

So there is truth to the notion, 'you can't add wasn't already there, in the mix; it just becomes noise'?

 

[László]

Speaking of capacitance, my alma mater, a 16.5 point underdog, had very high capacitance on defense this afternoon.

 

[László]

So there is truth to the notion, 'you can't add wasn't already there, in the mix; it just becomes noise'?

You speak the truth, deathworlder!

 

[deathworlder]

Do you have a preference when it comes to 1/4' plugs?

 

[László]

Do you have a preference when it comes to 1/4' plugs?

I'm kind of plug-neutral; G&H, Neutrik and Switchcraft have all worked very well here over the years.

Lately I've been using G&H 1/4" plugs simply because the guy making my cables uses them. Might be because they have more plating combinations and he likes to make nice looking cables.

By coincidence, all of the mic cables currently in use in my studio have Neutrik connectors, but I had good luck with Switchcraft for many years, too.

 

[deathworlder]

I just had to buy a "good" 1/4" TRS cable to connect a modeler to a powered frfr...
Found a 15' Mogami 2549 cable with Neutrick NP3X-B gold plugs. The cable is conventional pair, not quad. Good enough?
The Mogami quad cable would have been 2534...

Correct me iif I'm wrong... The way I understand it; quad is only really desirable iif you require more shielding. Conventional pair has lower capacitance...

What are your TRS patches and XLRs wired with?

 

[László]

I just had to buy a "good" 1/4" TRS cable to connect a modeler to a powered frfr...
Found a 15' Mogami 2549 cable with Neutrick NP3X-B gold plugs. The cable is conventional pair, not quad. Good enough?

Yes, of course. I'm assuming the signal is line-level, not instrument-level, so the capacitance won't be a significant issue even if you use quad core.

Correct me iif I'm wrong... The way I understand it; quad is only really desirable iif you require more shielding. Conventional pair has lower capacitance...

You're correct, the quad has higher capacitance.

The way it's put together and shielded it has lower noise, and most situations don't require it. I do use it to connect mics, though, as described below.

What are your TRS patches and XLRs wired with?

Mostly Mogami. I use both types depending on what's needed.

I also use Canare for a few line level connections, it's their Quad stuff and it's very high quality cable, like Mogami. These are 20 foot cables that are wrapped with techflex braiding so they lay flat on the floor. I use them for line level signals to connect outputs from gear like mic preamps and direct boxes that are sometimes placed far enough from the workstation that the cables can pick up noise.

For line level signals the capacitance is much less of an issue. For microphone-to-preamp signals it's more of an issue.

I often use Mogami quad core cables for dynamic mics.

For condensers I now always use Sommer's SW EMC-Quad Core Reference - it has low capacitance, and Neutrik cooked up some special XLRs for it that have special "fingers" around the circumference to enhance the electrical connection to mics, etc.

To test the first one I bought, I did some A/B recording a few years back swapping between the cables with a Neumann condenser. I liked what I heard, and bought a few more. The drawback is that the cable costs more than a lot of mics.

Why the quad core for the mics? In general, it's just to prevent potential noise.

The city installed an electronic water meter/reader gizmo that occasionally causes EMI or RFI noise in my studio; it can easily be heard with single coil guitar pickups and it's annoying.

Before the mic signal hits the preamp it's a low level signal, so I use the quad core to keep the cable from picking up noise. A mic signal gets boosted 20-60 dB when it hits the preamp. If there's noise, that gets boosted too. So I take no chances.

I'm probably being a little paranoid, but I'd rather not lose a good take or discover that a track has noise after a singer or session player has left. Bringing them back to fix a problem gets expensive, as I have to pay another session fee.

I'm not alone in this; the big studios I've booked will generally use quad core for mics.

 

[JasonE]

I'm kind of plug-neutral; G&H, Neutrik and Switchcraft have all worked very well here over the years.

Lately I've been using G&H 1/4" plugs simply because the guy making my cables uses them. Might be because they have more plating combinations and he likes to make nice looking cables.

By coincidence, all of the mic cables currently in use in my studio have Neutrik connectors, but I had good luck with Switchcraft for many years, too.

If I thought I could make some money I would look into sourcing good quality cable and start making them. I have been looking for something like that I could do on the side. I have repaired many over the years and could kick them out pretty fast.

 

[László]

If I thought I could make some money I would look into sourcing good quality cable and start making them. I have been looking for something like that I could do on the side. I have repaired many over the years and could kick them out pretty fast.

I imagine you'd pick up a lot of good info about the various cables on the market as you did your research, try them out, listen for differences, and determine what you'd recommend to customers, etc.

The person who's been making my cables of late has helped me find a few things I've really liked - the speaker cable I've been using lately is a good example - I wanted custom lengths running from the switcher to the amps and cabs so I don't have to coil up lengths of cable I don't need. He recommended a type I hadn't heard of, and I really liked it and got more.

He also turned me on to some pedalboard cables when I wanted to redo the connections on my pedalboard a year or two ago, and sourced some very nice, small right angle connectors by G&H that have barrels like on larger plugs, to make disconnecting and connecting easier without stressing the cable>plug connections. For pedalboards, I don't buy the typical pedalboard plugs that don't have barrels for strain relief.

I think these are the kinds of things that distinguish one company from another.

But I don't know anything about the profit margins, etc.

For cable that I need to lay flat on the floor and be out all the time, like the signal and power cables from the pedalboard to the rack , the braided Tech Flex sheathing is really great. No tangles or kinks, lays flat, protects the cable if it's stepped on (stepping on cables often can open the braided shielding inside the cable, which isn't visible on the outside, but spoils its ability to reject hum and noise).

The companies offering it will use heat shrink to seal the ends so it doesn't come loose or unravel. I have had several larger gauge power cables made up this way with hospital grade plugs and receptacles as well. These types of plugs are spec'd to hold up to higher voltages and temperatures. It's probably a feel-good thing in most cases, but WTF, they're easy to grasp because of the size so I like them.

Since my cables aren't laid out in troughs under the flooring like the big time studios have, I have them made up in a grey color for the most part, and run them along the edge of the carpet where they're practically invisible. It's helpful that they lay flat as well, it prevents the typical rat's nests behind racks and on floors.

So that's something customers might want.

I'd check out a few of the cable maker websites, look at pricing vs your cost, and decide if it's worth the effort to get into doing it. I like the way this company does the work and would recommend them to folks here:

Revelation Cable Company

Custom Cable and Pedalboard Solutions

revelationcablecompany.com