Not hugely enamored of the 85/15's

greiswig

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Jul 6, 2015
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Hello, all,

I recently picked up a 30th anniversary CU24. I also have a 22-fret Schroeder hardtail guitar with covered WCR Godwood pickups in it. I spend most of my time playing Robben Ford-style blues, old R&B, and so forth. So medium gain, Dumble ODS kind of tones. I'm using an AxeFX for the most part these days.

The 85/15's in the PRS are pretty nice pickups, are a bit brighter sounding (perhaps because having no covers) and possibly a bit deeper sounding. But the bridge pickup lacks the woody midrange complexity that I get out of the Schroeder/WCR combo. I've tinkered quite a bit with pickup height, and lowering it gets quite a bit closer. And, actually, dropping the tone control down to 7-8 range seems to get it closer as well. But I think these pickups were just designed for a different overall tone than what I'm after.

I was a little surprised to see that the stock tone cap is higher than most...I think it's around .03uF or something? Surprised because with a cap that high in value, I wouldn't expect to roll off anything on the tone knob. Anyone replace that cap with a different (higher still) value and have an experience to report? I've heard that changing that can alter the resonance of the pickups. Or...

Sacrilege to pull the stock p'ups and replace them with the Zhangbuckers I've got sitting around? ;-) Going to have to get some different rings to try that little experiment...
 
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0.033 uf is pretty middle of the road cap-wise and seems to be what PRS is preferring these days. The typical choice on humbuckers is 0.022 uf and for singles it's often 0.047 uf. The higher the value, the more high end it rolls off. I'm using a 0.015 in my Tele, actually. The tone cap doesn't affect the tone when the knob is turned up.

But if the pickups don't do it for ya, swap 'em! And then you can either make a small fortune selling the 85/15 pups in the used market or keep them for later.
 
They're my favorite pickups of all time, because they're clear, bright, open and respond to the guitar's controls very nicely, but if they're not for you, swap 'em!
 
0.033 uf is pretty middle of the road cap-wise and seems to be what PRS is preferring these days. The typical choice on humbuckers is 0.022 uf and for singles it's often 0.047 uf. The higher the value, the more high end it rolls off. I'm using a 0.015 in my Tele, actually. The tone cap doesn't affect the tone when the knob is turned up.

But if the pickups don't do it for ya, swap 'em! And then you can either make a small fortune selling the 85/15 pups in the used market or keep them for later.

Thanks for the input. I thought that the tone cap affected things even with the control all the way up, because the pot doesn't ever go to infinite resistance. If it was a 10M pot, that would be pretty close! Don't know what the pot values are, but I bet they're both 500k, right?
 
The resistance of the pot factors in (hence the existence of no-load pots), but the cap doesn't kick in until you turn the knob down. They pots will be 500k.
 
Love to have those pickups, but then I'd have to buy something to put them in, sigh. Better keep 'em. :coffee:
 
Well if you don't want them, I'll swap you my SE CU24 pickups for them :p

I personally love them, but tone is a personal thing, so no fault to you for not liking them, they're just not for you. There's probably a hundred people here that would take them off your hands in a heartbeat though ;)
 
Well if you don't want them, I'll swap you my SE CU24 pickups for them :p

I personally love them, but tone is a personal thing, so no fault to you for not liking them, they're just not for you. There's probably a hundred people here that would take them off your hands in a heartbeat though ;)

Yeah, but I confess that I always feel really curious when a bunch of other people like something that I don't. To me, these sound like they'd be great for modern rock and metal, but for the bridge tone I'm after in particular they sound almost "scooped" in the mids. But I also don't know how much of that is the guitar. My Schroeder has a redwood top, not maple, so it is possible that swapping pickups between those two guitars would result in both guitars sounding pretty much like they did before the swap.

Guess I'll have to experiment a bit.

Now I just have to fix up and sell my 1986 Custom 24 to justify this newer one!
 
Yes? I know...it's odd, eh? But I've never bonded with the rotary switch, and the wide-thin neck is not as good for my hands. I'd put in a 3-way toggle and some different p'ups, but I still find myself preferring a blade switch and the versatility.
 
Yes? I know...it's odd, eh? But I've never bonded with the rotary switch, and the wide-thin neck is not as good for my hands. I'd put in a 3-way toggle and some different p'ups, but I still find myself preferring a blade switch and the versatility.

Different strokes...

What good is a guitar if you're not into it? Heck, you may even be able to pay for your new one and a second one!
 
Not even sure what it's worth, honestly. I've seen some mint ones from that era go for tidy sums, but mine is not mint. It was played.
 
I noticed on my 30th CU24 that the pickups are very responsive to how hard you play. The beauty of the pickups, 85/15's, came through for me when I started to play softer.

The guitar has its own tone which will color any pickups you put into it. I was thrown off by the scooped tone, which you mentioned, shortly after I purchased the guitar. I was even planning on trading it in for a little while there. i also thought about swapping out the pickups. But, for some reason, now I think it's one of the best guitars I ever owned. I don't know what happened, but I love my guitar now.

So, based on that experience, I would recommend not doing anything for a little while and see if your feeling change.
 
I'll give you $350! :rofl:

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Yeah, but I confess that I always feel really curious when a bunch of other people like something that I don't. To me, these sound like they'd be great for modern rock and metal, but for the bridge tone I'm after in particular they sound almost "scooped" in the mids.

No guitar or pickup will be a hit with everyone, because we're all different. I can only share my experience with the guitar and the pickups, but there might be some info that you might find useful.

First, I'm not a metal player; I hire metal players for my tracks when I need one. But I play most other styles.

As you know, most humbuckers are midrange-heavy pickups. In part, that's due to the phase cancellation that's designed into a humbucking pickup never being quite perfect, in part, to the fairly wide swath of string that the magnets focus on, attract, to the placement of two pickups next to each other, etc., etc.

With the 85/15, according to a member here who spoke about it with Paul Smith, the goal was to create a pickup with more clarity, and with a tone somewhat like a P-90, but without the noise of a P-90. In any case, it's a fuller range pickup than most humbuckers, and the extended high frequency response might mask the power of its midrange, but that midrange is there. I don't of course know the controls on your amp, but you might want to set it up to accentuate the midrange, if that's what you like.

What I've noticed about the guitar is that it seems to do what the CU24 was always supposed to do - it bridges the gap between a Singlecut guitar and a Strat better than ever.

I have no problem using it where other people might use a Strat. I also use it where I'd have once used a P-90 guitar. But in any case, it gets work when I want a lot of clarity, chime, definition, etc.

One secret of the guitar is that its volume and tone controls sound great rolled down, and yet retain their clarity. The tone, however, is going to change as you do that, and I find the tone control especially useful to tailor the guitar to the sound I need for a particular track. I don't know if you're a "turn the knobs to 10" player or if you use the volume and tone controls in your playing, but it's worth experimenting with them in either case.

When I play my Singlecut, I set my amps up differently. They aren't the same guitar, they don't have the same pickups, and the amps aren't going to do the same thing when you go from one to the other (unless you compensate in some way with an EQ pedal, etc.).

I've used the guitar on so many of my projects lately, that I'm surprised when I think about it! I am in deep love with my McCarty Singlecut, but this CU24 30th is getting some pretty solid rotation in my work, and I'm certainly using it every bit as much as the SC (the McCarty Singlecut has specially wound 57/08s that sound like a great PAF).

In any case, I feel you if the pickups aren't your thing - no guitar can be all things to all players. ;)

Curious, did you buy the guitar without playing one first?
 
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What I've noticed about the guitar is that it seems to do what the CU24 was always supposed to do - it bridges the gap between a Singlecut guitar and a Strat better than ever.

I have no problem using it where other people might use a Strat. I also use it where I'd have once used a P-90 guitar. But in any case, it gets work when I want a lot of clarity, chime, definition, etc.

One secret of the guitar is that its volume and tone controls sound great rolled down, and yet retain their clarity. The tone, however, is going to change as you do that, and I find the tone control especially useful to tailor the guitar to the sound I need for a particular track. I don't know if you're a "turn the knobs to 10" player or if you use the volume and tone controls in your playing, but it's worth experimenting with them in either case.

The new guitar pictured below [which I helped CR Guitars spec] has covered 85/15s in it. It's a McCarty that is Singlecut thickness, so it's a very different-sounding guitar than the CU 24. The pickups still have that clarity, chime, & definition, but the overall presentation is more like you'd expect from a classic Les Paul type guitar except inasmuch as the double cutaway has a significant impact on the lower end of the frequency spectrum, IMO a good thing since most of the time single cutaway guitars have more of that than I personally want to hear. Oh and the vibrato contributes to that effect as well.

My single favorite thing about the 85/15s is how well they respond to rolling off the volume and tone. I'm a separate-volume guy all the way; I highly value the ability to dial in a wide range of sounds by using the middle position and working the separate volumes. The 85/15s (with whatever pots & caps accompany them) in this guitar represent the first time I've ever heard a PRS that does that subtle stuff better than my vintage Les Paul with PAFs. When I demoed the guitar in the shop, I launched into a bunch of classic funk and R&B stuff, and Craig and I couldn't stop giggling like schoolgirls at how well this guitar nailed that stuff. BTW, the Singlecut to which Les refers, at least the one I had in my house for 24 hours, gets the "everything on 10" part absolutely right, in fact probably better than the vintage LP in that it's more controllable and more predictable, but it didn't fare nearly so well when I started playing with the vol and tone controls.

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I've used the guitar on so many of my projects lately, that I'm surprised when I think about it! I am in deep love with my McCarty Singlecut, but this CU24 30th is getting some pretty solid rotation in my work, and I'm certainly using it every bit as much as the SC (the McCarty Singlecut has specially wound 57/08s that sound like a great PAF).

I think that particular SC/CU24 combination is a great 1/2 punch. Not much functional overlap there, except inasmuch as both are beautifully made and great-sounding PRS guitars!
 
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This is all really good advice, folks. (Well, except for the $350ish offers for my old guitar!)

I have always been the type to set the volume and tone on 10 and leave them there, except when I'm doing Metheny style stuff, or want a solo to sit differently in the mix, then I roll the tone off a lot. I did notice how differently this instrument reacts to rolling off both of those controls from other guitars, but I didn't know how much of that was just the 180pF cap on the volume knob or something odd about the way the tone cap was wired.

I'll spend some more time with it as-is before making big changes. Fortunately, pickups are easily reversed if I do try it.
 
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