"nitro over celluose (CAB) finish" on McCarty 2020

Discussion in 'Electric Instruments' started by Supasso, Oct 23, 2019.

  1. Supasso

    Supasso New Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2012
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    2
    I watched new McCarty's videos they just uploaded and immediately went to the PRS's website to see more details, and I saw this "For 2020, PRS has updated this model with TCI-tuned pickups and nitro over celluose (CAB) finish".

    I've been hoping for PRS to offer nitro finish on core models for ages, but what on earth is this? I know they used nitro over poly in the past, but nitro over celluose (mispelled?)? Aren't they supposed to be the same thing? What CAB stands for anyway? Does anyone know?

    https://www.prsguitars.com/index.php/electrics/model/mccarty_594_2020
     
    Clashcityrocker likes this.
  2. shimmilou

    shimmilou Established in 1963

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2018
    Messages:
    1,387
    Likes Received:
    2,202
    I found this on a web search.

    CAB Lacquer

    CAB lacquer is typically made from a mixture of a cellulose resin called cellulose acetate butyrate (CAB) and acrylic. It is sometimes labeled as CAB-acrylic lacquer. This finish has the same general properties of nitrocellulose lacquer, except it is much whiter and yellows less over time. It also has slightly better heat resistance and is less brittle. CAB lacquer is an ideal finish for light-colored woods because it preserves the light color. However, it is more expensive and lacks some of the clarity of standard lacquer.

    http://www.woodbin.com/ref/wood-finishes/lacquer/

    So, maybe regular nitro lacquer over this CAB acrylic lacquer, or vice-versa?
     
    #2 shimmilou, Oct 23, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2019
    ScottR, Boogie, WA Paul and 4 others like this.
  3. Supasso

    Supasso New Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2012
    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    2
    Interesting. That makes a lot of sense. I would guess it's old-school nitro over CAB, since CAB is cellulose-based, but not nitro.
     
    dogrocketp likes this.
  4. Clashcityrocker

    Clashcityrocker RedPilled

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2016
    Messages:
    303
    Likes Received:
    511
    I'm looking forward to this. Nitro has such a good feel.
     
  5. pauloqs

    pauloqs PRS McCarty

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2019
    Messages:
    400
    Likes Received:
    675
    Paul is killing it with the 2020 lineup. Nitro on the McCarty and 594, also check out the new Custom 24. It has the CU24-08 splitting system and the McCarty 3-way pickup selector toggle switch.
     
    LSchefman likes this.
  6. drdoom8793

    drdoom8793 THAT guy at Chick-fil-A

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2014
    Messages:
    1,324
    Likes Received:
    1,023
    Wonder if it will wear like old school Nitro. I know a lot of people wouldn't like that but I would LOVE it.
     
    ScottR, Boogie, LSchefman and 3 others like this.
  7. sergiodeblanc

    sergiodeblanc Get in, loser, we’re going shopping.

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2012
    Messages:
    20,075
    Likes Received:
    28,776
    I’d start ordering guitars from Arizona in January, specify ground shipping, and open the box immediately when it showed up with my thermostat set to sauna.
     
    gush, ScottR, dogrocketp and 8 others like this.
  8. drdoom8793

    drdoom8793 THAT guy at Chick-fil-A

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2014
    Messages:
    1,324
    Likes Received:
    1,023
    Lol! I want it to wear naturally, not turn into a pile of firewood!
     
    LSchefman likes this.
  9. Johnny Rigs

    Johnny Rigs Have you tried restarting?

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2018
    Messages:
    422
    Likes Received:
    909
    If there’s one thing I do miss about my Les Pauls, it’s the feel of the nitro finish. Ok, and the smell of the finish a little too..
     
    justjoshin, P90s and drdoom8793 like this.
  10. LSchefman

    LSchefman Hears Tones

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2012
    Messages:
    24,215
    Likes Received:
    19,607
    The PRS nitro (at least the stuff that’s on my PS models) might be a little different from what Gibson uses, or maybe it’s applied differently, or has a different base coat.

    It has the feel, and yeah, the scent (at least new), but as you’d expect with PRS, it’s smoother, less “gloopy” (I just made that word up, I figure that’s because PRS’ sanding between coats is more careful as well as the polishing).

    It has that beautiful nitro sheen, And it sounds like nitro finished guitars should sound (which I realize is controversial, but for me it’s an audible thing that I can’t put into words, and either you hear it or not, and if not I won’t hold it against ya ;)).
     
  11. sergiodeblanc

    sergiodeblanc Get in, loser, we’re going shopping.

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2012
    Messages:
    20,075
    Likes Received:
    28,776
    PRS guitars are tougher than people give ‘em credit for.
     
    ScottR likes this.
  12. HANGAR18

    HANGAR18 What Would Evel Knievel Do?

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2013
    Messages:
    2,048
    Likes Received:
    1,708
    You had me at Arizona... hahahaha

    I've often wondered if they could stain a Maple top in these colors but I suspect the red would bleed into the yellow as well as the blue.

    [​IMG]
     
    dogrocketp, shimmilou and Glide-bpm like this.
  13. shimmilou

    shimmilou Established in 1963

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2018
    Messages:
    1,387
    Likes Received:
    2,202
    Something like this, maybe?

    [​IMG]
     
  14. Boogie

    Boogie SuperD

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2012
    Messages:
    5,939
    Likes Received:
    8,448
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    ScottR, shimmilou, bodia and 2 others like this.
  15. Mike Duncan

    Mike Duncan DGT Player

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2012
    Messages:
    1,727
    Likes Received:
    1,710
    The nitro on my '08 DGT will neither green, nor shatter.
     
    ScottR and bodia like this.
  16. Mozzi

    Mozzi https://imgur.com/user/BAMozzy

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2018
    Messages:
    1,544
    Likes Received:
    2,195
    This is where some better information should be given by PRS because I bet most people think of guitars like a Les Paul as having a Nitro finish which will shatter/crack/check as well as known for being a 'softer' finish that wears relatively easy compared to the Finish we have become accustomed to from PRS in the past. It doesn't seem to take much to wear off the finish on the back of a Les Paul down to the bare wood and compare that buckle rash to a PRS that looks like new until you look close and see little dents/scratches but it looks like the finish and guitars have been protected by a very hard layer.

    Forgetting about the feel and any tonal qualities, the one thing everyone assumes is that Nitro wears and the reason these older guitars look like 'relics' and Poly (whether either of these terms are accurate or not), does not wear at all and can look like new (bar any serious dings that may have caused chipping). I know Poly can be seen as the lesser of the two finishes with numerous low budget guitars having a very thick coating of 'Poly' and, I think, also highlighted by Epiphone and Gibson.

    I think Poly, certainly the finish that PRS has been using and refining over years, is not necessarily worse and its a lack of information and education by Luthiers as led to a lot of misinformation. I never found the 'poly' neck of a PRS to be sticky but, if you rub Nitro so it warms up, that becomes sticky - that's one way to tell a nitro finish is to rub it hard and see if it becomes sticky (oo-er missus :D). What I like about PRS guitars is I know that my guitars can still look as good as new in 30+yrs time - assuming I don't accidentally drop or bang into something and don't wear belts/zips when playing - because that finish is exceptionally hard wearing, but do the same on a Gibson Les Paul and chances are, it will show much more sign of wear.

    Whether this is to be expected with the 'Nitro' finish that PRS will be using or not, I don't know and that is part of the problem. Much like 'Poly' is misunderstood and likened to the 'thick' poly coated cheap import guitars regardless of whether it is different or just applied a lot thinner, Nitro too will be assumed to have the attributes that Nitro finishes have - much softer, not hard wearing, yellows with age and more susceptible to rapid temperature checking/cracking. I don't know at all whether or not the new PRS guitars will end up looking like relics with their beautiful finishes wearing through to bare wood but I would rather buy older/used PRS guitars with the hard 'Poly' finishes we associate with PRS because I don't want my guitars to look like relics in need of restoration. I know others will feel differently and have their own preference.

    Without being educated by the Builders, we tend to see guitars either finished in 'Poly' or 'Nitro'. I know there are a few alternatives but I am sure that not all Poly or all Nitro finishes are the same and that the generalisations that are often attributed to each may not be the case for all. For all I know, the Nitro finish that PRS are using for their 2020 models could be something entirely 'new' - some ingredient added that makes the guitars have the feel and tonal quality associated with Nitro but also the extremely hard wearing and protective qualities associated with PRS's 'poly' finish without the risk of checking or yellowing either - not saying it is like this but as not all Poly finishes are the same, not all Nitro finishes maybe the same too so it would be great to hear what these changes mean and what the benefits to the changes are - not just in the short term either...
     
  17. sergiodeblanc

    sergiodeblanc Get in, loser, we’re going shopping.

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2012
    Messages:
    20,075
    Likes Received:
    28,776
    Then how was Todd’s relic DGT done, razor blades?
     
  18. Mike Duncan

    Mike Duncan DGT Player

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2012
    Messages:
    1,727
    Likes Received:
    1,710
    I think they must have used razor blades. My finish is gummy is certain areas and brittle in others. Even 11 and half years in, it's still curing.
     
  19. Mozzi

    Mozzi https://imgur.com/user/BAMozzy

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2018
    Messages:
    1,544
    Likes Received:
    2,195


    Just watched this video and @1.22, the finish is described thusly:
    "New Nitro over Cellulose for thin but hard coating that sinks very little, sounds great and doesn't alter the original sprayed on coating"

    Again, I don't know if this is the same as a Gibson Nitro finish, the same as Nitro finishes on older (08) PRS guitars, a new development that gives the best of both Nitro and Poly (or at least the traditional hard finishes PRS are known for) or something else.

    The video is still a great watch...
     
  20. Shawn@PRS

    Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 1985
    Messages:
    6,319
    Likes Received:
    12,796
    Nitro can vary dramatically from one formula to another. The nitro our competitors are using today is not the same formula they were using in the 1950's. Also, the formula PRS is using now is not the same formula found on Mike Duncan's 2008 DGT. What we are using now is the "Private Stock" nitro finish that we've been using on PS guitars for several years.
     
    ViperDoc, JonW, toothace and 15 others like this.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice