NGD - PRS SE Custom 24 Trampas Green

[jdag]

No pics...yet! I want to be sure I am going to keep this guitar 1st! Here's my story and questions...

I was inspired by my 7 year old nephew to learn guitar when he played me ~18 (yes, 18) songs for my 50th birthday. Everything from Happy Birthday to Satisfaction to Back in Black to Smells Like Teen Spirit. I decided then that I wanted to learn to play.

So I started shopping $100 guitars, and of course ended up buying a $500 PRS SE Standard 22. I am absolutely loving this journey. So much so, that I decided to step up to a 2017 SE Custom 24 this week.

Now, I am having some buyer's remorse. Not because the Custom 24 is not fantastic. But because I think I like the Standard 22 better. The main issue is the tremolo on the 24 vs. the fixed bridge on the 22.

Last evening, I was playing the Custom 24 for a while. I put it down for about 30 minutes, and when I started playing again it was horribly out of tune. So I tuned it up, payed for about 30 minutes, and put it down.

About 2 hours later, I decided to practice some chord changes before going to bed, so picked it up again. And again it was very noticeably out of tune, so much so that I thought at 1st I was playing at the wrong frets. Further, tuning is much more difficult on the 24 as a change on the E string seems affects the others, and then changes on the others re-affect the E string...etc...

So, is this at all common with the tremolo? Is there some other issue with this guitar? Am I just not a tremolo guy and should I look to get a 2015 Custom 22 instead???????

I appreciate the the help in advance!

 

[shinksma]

In general PRS guitars with trems are very stable - I can pick up the SE Ackerfelt that is hanging on my wall that I haven't played in months and I bet it needs very little or no tuning.

Perhaps your guitar isn't quite set up right. Or, maybe you just have brand new strings? Strings need to be stretched out to stabilize, especially on trem guitars. Tune up, really wail on some beds, and check your tuning - it probably has gone flat and needs tuning. Rinse and repeat a few times. It will get better over about a day or two.

If it is a set-up issue: does the trem feel too easily moved? i.e., to dive bomb you don't need to put much pressure on it? (You may want to compare to other guitars for reference.) That might mean you need another claw spring or need to tighten up the springs underneath (back side of guitar under the cover). If you aren't comfortable, take it back to the store to have them do it, they should be able to adjust it for you free of charge.

If you can, post some pictures of the headstock showing the strings around the tuners, and pix of the bridge, especially from the side (basically, your point of view while wearing the guitar). We might spot a glaring issue.

 

[andy474x]

If you changed strings and went to a larger gauge set, they will bind in the nut as the slots are cut for a 9-42 set.

Or, maybe the tuning keys are just getting banged around if you're putting it back in the gig bag?

 

[jdag]

Thank you for the quick response. The main reason I had initially elected for the Standard 22 over the Standard 24 was the fixed bridge of the 22. But when moving to the Custom, both the 22 and 24 have the tremolo (unless I find a 2015 Custom 22). I never had any tuning issues at all with the Standard 22, which is sort of feeding my buyer's remorse.

I don't have a frame of reference for how easily this trem moves, so I may need to run to a shop to compare it to others. I do not have the trem arm on, but just hitting the bridge with the palm of my hand accidentally does cause movement and pitch change. Is that normal or does it sound loose?

I will get some pics posted up soon.

 

[andy474x]

99% of the time, tuning issues on SE guitars with trem bridges is due to strings getting stuck/binding at the nut. If the guitar goes out of tune when you use the trem, that's one sign. Also, try bending a string, check intonation, then apply some pressure to that string behind the nut, and check again. If the intonation is changing, your strings are binding. I use the trem frequently enough on my SE Custom 24, so I went to a Tusq XL pre-slotted nut, because the string slots are more of a bowl shape than a deep slot with walls that add friction and catch the string. But a good nut filing by a tech, or even installing a USA nut, would be a cheap and easy way to go too.

 

[garrettb]

What you describe sounds like normal trem function to me.

I would expect that the going out of tune is due to the new strings stretching and should settle down soon. Since the bridge floats above the body, it's a constant balance of tension between the strings and the tremolo springs. Therefore, retuning one string affects the others until you reach equilibrium.

Depending on how you position your right hand, it can indeed push on the bridge a bit and change the pitch. Some people don't like floating trems for that very reason. You can learn to adjust your position for the bridge or maybe trems just aren't your thing, at least not yet.

The stoptail does make things a little simpler for beginners (just remember painters tape to keep the bridge/studs in place if you take off all 6 strings at once). If you're digging the Standard, I see no reason to switch. Whatever is most comfortable and sounds best to you is what will keep you interested in playing. Have fun!

 

[jdag]

strings getting stuck/binding at the nut.

Andy474x, I think you are right on the nut being the culprit.. I tuned the guitar, did some bends, checked tuning (was flat), and put pressure on the string behind the nut (pitch sharpened up, but generally not all the way back). I've also found that after bending, putting just a tiny bit palm pressure on/off the trem will also bring the note up from being flat (again, not all the way back into tune). I cannot imagine that this is normal.

garrett, I appreciate your thoughts on sticking with a fixed bridge, and it is definitely something I am considering. I do want to upgrade from the Standard to the Custom (don't need to, but want to). But the "trem is not for me" thought might be right.

I do think I will take a run out to the shop later today or tomorrow though. I am a very analytical person, and this is something I need to fix or it will drive me nuts.

 

[jdag]

If you can, post some pictures of the headstock showing the strings around the tuners, and pix of the bridge, especially from the side (basically, your point of view while wearing the guitar). We might spot a glaring issue.

Here are some pics. Others are available on my Flickr page: https://flic.kr/s/aHsm1r1Udj

 

[garrettb]

It's a beaut!

(don't need to, but want to)

Ha, that pretty much sums up this board. Welcome to the addiction.

If you're interested in what the tremolo bridge can do, you can definitely incorporate it into your technique. You could also block or partially block the trem to immobilize it.

 

[Rider1260]

Nice guitar I have always loved that color

As far as the Trem goes , your guitar does not have the locking tuners and that would greatly help ( http://guitarvaultusa.com/news/mann...cking-tuners-for-prs-se-guitars/#.WZdMeq2ZN3k )

I also believe John was doing an upgrade or trade in that was even less expensive.

Once you have locking tuners the guitar will be much more stable tuning wise, I also rest my hand on the trem bridge with no issues in fact i find I can add a bit of warble without touching the bar

 

[jdag]

Thanks again for the feedback, everyone. I will mess around for a few days and see how it goes, hopefully it is just a 'break in' period with the strings.

 

[DogPhishHead]

Thanks again for the feedback, everyone. I will mess around for a few days and see how it goes, hopefully it is just a 'break in' period with the strings.

I would say it's the strings binding on the nut. I don't care what PRS says, they don't do much with there "USA setup" on these SE guitars. I've played several that have a tuning issue. It needs a good setup by a pro luthier. My Zach Myers was perfect with tune, fret work, intonation, but it had three strings binding on the nut. I had a graph-tech nut put on it, so much better stability and sounds better with .105-.48s than those wet shoe lace .009s.

 

[László]

That's a beautiful guitar! Have fun with it!

 

[dogrocketp]

I would say it's the strings binding on the nut. I don't care what PRS says, they don't do much with there "USA setup" on these SE guitars. I've played several that have a tuning issue. It needs a good setup by a pro luthier. My Zach Myers was perfect with tune, fret work, intonation, but it had three strings binding on the nut. I had a graph-tech nut put on it, so much better stability and sounds better with .105-.48s than those wet shoe lace .009s.

I don`t think that there`s anything wrong with the USA setup of these. The first thing I always do is have the nut changed on my SE`s. All 6 of them have USA nuts. Think that`s the only essential change there is and I work the trem bar a lot. Do have it set up by a good technician who knows PRS. They`re the best trems I`ve tried. It`s very possible that things changed when the guitar was shipped. people tend to forget about that, especially in very hot or very cold weather.

 

[jdag]

I don`t think that there`s anything wrong with the USA setup of these. The first thing I always do is have the nut changed on my SE`s. All 6 of them have USA nuts. Think that`s the only essential change there is and I work the trem bar a lot. Do have it set up by a good technician who knows PRS. They`re the best trems I`ve tried. It`s very possible that things changed when the guitar was shipped. people tend to forget about that, especially in very hot or very cold weather.

I was just thinking about this thread when I rec'd the notification that dogrocketp posted this.

I have spent a decent amount of time on the guitar over the past couple of days, and the tuning problems have improved tremendously. Maybe attributable to "breaking in" the strings? I am a complete newbie player, so this is all a learning experience for me.

That being said, I love this guitar! I am having so much fun.

 

[shinksma]

I have spent a decent amount of time on the guitar over the past couple of days, and the tuning problems have improved tremendously. Maybe attributable to "breaking in" the strings?

Very very likely. Strings continue to stretch after being installed (timing seems to vary based on brand, IME), so this was just probably a case of strings-need-stretching. I pull and stretch my strings for a couple of hours, if I can, after installing a new set for this reason.

 

[jdag]

Well, it was clearly something! And that something seems to be solved, so I am happy! I still sound terrible...but least I am in tune.

Oh...and look good (at least the guitar).