NGD ... fail?

[archtop]

Long, long time arch top player and I'm fairly new to PRS, I purchased a new S2 a year ago then a Core McCarty and DGT.

Due to a few shoulder/arm injuries and surgeries it has been difficult to play my 17" and 18" arch tops, and pleased with the playability of the McCarty & DGT I thought I'd try a Core Hollowbody II (my PRSs feel like the neck isn't extended as far out as a Gibson which really helps, as does the smaller body). I purchased a 'Brand New' Hollowbody II on Reverb. When it arrived I pulled the case from the box and ran to my poorly lit music room (we're preparing to move and the kitchen is about the only room with decent lighting). The Hollowbody II exceeded my hopes on comfort so much that within 2 hours of receiving I placed an order for a second Hollowbody II that was on order by the dealer. Later that evening I brought my new PRS into the kitchen to show my spouse, and my heart sank when we saw the guitar in a well lit room... (The guitar looked fine in the listing pics).

I contacted the PRS dealer that night to inform them the guitar appears to have a faded top and wear to the hardware and sent them pics. I initiated a return on Reverb and also sent pics to PRS with comments that PRS has QC issues. After a few days the dealer responded they had "spoke with the head of PRS under Paul" and "PRS is willing to accept the guitar back and redo the finish.". PRS never responded directly to me.

As far as the return: Reverb, knowing about the need to refinish, sided with seller that this is a "preference-based return since you had requested a refund because of the color": I'm out shipping both ways AND the return is 'conditional' (seller might not even accept a return).

I'm new to PRS and I'm shocked that the customer is expected to assume responsibility for having a new guitar refinished, I feel this guitar should never have been shipped to a customer and a buyer of a 'Brand New' guitar shouldn't have to accept a refinished instrument (I would certainly never be able to sell it without disclosing the refinish and taking a hit on price). I cancelled the order for the second Hollowbody II and this one's going back and I guess all I can do is hope for whatever refund I get... if seller accepts the guitar back. After 2 weeks of stress and a ridiculous 'solution' I'm done with PRS. The McCarty and DGT are ready to be listed and I'll endeavor to push even harder with physical therapy in hopes I can someday get back to my L5 and Super 400.

 

[toothace]

You bought this from a dealer on Reverb? A private seller? What is your reasoning for a refinish? To my eye it looks consistent... The hardware wear has me baffled though...

 

[Moondog Wily]

Long, long time arch top player and I'm fairly new to PRS, I purchased a new S2 a year ago then a Core McCarty and DGT.

Due to a few shoulder/arm injuries and surgeries it has been difficult to play my 17" and 18" arch tops, and pleased with the playability of the McCarty & DGT I thought I'd try a Core Hollowbody II (my PRSs feel like the neck isn't extended as far out as a Gibson which really helps, as does the smaller body). I purchased a 'Brand New' Hollowbody II on Reverb. When it arrived I pulled the case from the box and ran to my poorly lit music room (we're preparing to move and the kitchen is about the only room with decent lighting). The Hollowbody II exceeded my hopes on comfort so much that within 2 hours of receiving I placed an order for a second Hollowbody II that was on order by the dealer. Later that evening I brought my new PRS into the kitchen to show my spouse, and my heart sank when we saw the guitar in a well lit room... (The guitar looked fine in the listing pics).

I contacted the PRS dealer that night to inform them the guitar appears to have a faded top and wear to the hardware and sent them pics. I initiated a return on Reverb and also sent pics to PRS with comments that PRS has QC issues. After a few days the dealer responded they had "spoke with the head of PRS under Paul" and "PRS is willing to accept the guitar back and redo the finish.". PRS never responded directly to me.

As far as the return: Reverb, knowing about the need to refinish, sided with seller that this is a "preference-based return since you had requested a refund because of the color": I'm out shipping both ways AND the return is 'conditional' (seller might not even accept a return).

I'm new to PRS and I'm shocked that the customer is expected to assume responsibility for having a new guitar refinished, I feel this guitar should never have been shipped to a customer and a buyer of a 'Brand New' guitar shouldn't have to accept a refinished instrument (I would certainly never be able to sell it without disclosing the refinish and taking a hit on price). I cancelled the order for the second Hollowbody II and this one's going back and I guess all I can do is hope for whatever refund I get... if seller accepts the guitar back. After 2 weeks of stress and a ridiculous 'solution' I'm done with PRS. The McCarty and DGT are ready to be listed and I'll endeavor to push even harder with physical therapy in hopes I can someday get back to my L5 and Super 400.

Just to be sure I have this straight, you got a flawed PRS, you decided that all PRS must go as a result of the way it is being handled, so you joined the forum. Is that correct? If so, welcome, it's been a blast!

In all seriousness, PRS does not generally deal directly with customers. If this is an authorized dealer, I can not imagine them refusing to take it back on the flawed hardware issues. If it is not an authorized dealer, lesson learned. My McCarty 594 HBII is my favorite guitar in large part due to the lighter weight. It arrived flawed (swirls in finish), and the authorized dealer compensated me in what I felt was an appropriate amount considering I am not a collector and all my guitars will be less than mint within weeks of me owning them ;~)) Hope you can find a solution and can understand why PRS wants you to work with the dealer and not directly with them.

 

[HANGAR18]

(I would certainly never be able to sell it without disclosing the refinish and taking a hit on price).

Having the PRS factory do the refinish does not diminish the price of the guitar! They are the manufacturer! Resale value taking a hit is only what happens when anyone other than the original manufacturer does a refinish.

 

[archtop]

You bought this from a dealer on Reverb? A private seller? What is your reasoning for a refinish? To my eye it looks consistent... The hardware wear has me baffled though...

Purchased from an Authorized Dealer on Reverb.

Just to be sure I have this straight, you got a flawed PRS, you decided that all PRS must go as a result of the way it is being handled, so you joined the forum. Is that correct? If so, welcome, it's been a blast!

In all seriousness, PRS does not generally deal directly with customers. If this is an authorized dealer, I can not imagine them refusing to take it back on the flawed hardware issues. If it is not an authorized dealer, lesson learned. My McCarty 594 HBII is my favorite guitar in large part due to the lighter weight. It arrived flawed (swirls in finish), and the authorized dealer compensated me in what I felt was an appropriate amount considering I am not a collector and all my guitars will be less than mint within weeks of me owning them ;~)) Hope you can find a solution and can understand why PRS wants you to work with the dealer and not directly with them.

As far as what I expect from the "head of PRS under Paul" who dealer spoke with and who acknowledged the guitar needs to be refinished? I expect the "head of PRS" to tell dealer "PRS has standards we expect our dealers to adhere to and that defective guitar should not have been shipped to a PRS customer! Get it back at our/your expense and send it to PRS for refinishing. Our valued cutomer should be offered a replacement or full refund".

My expectations were not met.

 

[RC Mike]

If it’s different than the photos posted in the add, that’s the item not being as represented. I’d demand a refund and send it back.

No need to sell guitars you’re happy with, though. That would be an unfortunate emotionally driven reaction.

 

[RickP]

Have to agree on the hardware, that’s not new PRS quality. It makes me wonder how much handling (without cleaning between) the guitar saw… looks like a showroom demo. I’m sure that’s not what you were told. If this is an authorized PRS dealer, you’ll be taken care of by PRS. I just recently dealt with a defect on a new PRS, and they (the home office in Stevensville) handled it for me without a hiccup. I went through the dealer and I was contacted by the mother ship to facilitate the repair.

Call the PTC directly and discuss it. They’re top shelf in my personal experience. If, by chance, the seller turns out not to be authorized, you may have a better argument with Reverb who have been, again, in my personal experience, much less helpful when you have a problem, especially since the Etsy buyout.

 

[archtop]

Thanks for the input so far. I do appreciate it.

The black background is from the listing which is a nice green with hints of yellow and consistent front and back. What I received has a top that looks like a sun faded version of the back. The front is similar to PRS factory 'faded' colors like I'd expect "Faded Emerald" to look, the back is a really nice Emerald that I'd expect on a 10 Top. Should these guitars change this much in 6 - 7 months at the dealer? And should the top differ so much from the back? I've owned hundreds of guitars and never seen anything like this, I've hung Gibsons, Fenders and Heritages on walls for years and never seen noticeable fading.

It's not that I dislike the color of either the top or back, I'm really bothered that the top and back don't match. PRS and the dealer both agree this guitar needs to be refinished, I just have a big issue with the customer being expected to assume the responsibility, burden, time, and risk of dealing with a refinish OR be penalized with hundreds of dollars in shipping charges for a guitar PRS and dealer agree was shipped needing a refinish. After an excruciating 2 weeks of mostly being ignored I have no interest or faith that this will become any easier. And why should I have to wait with my money tied up in this process when I should be playing a new guitar?

(I'm not cherry picking or PhotoShopping pics, every pic I've taken looks like the front and back are from different guitars.)

 

[archtop]

If it’s different than the photos posted in the add, that’s the item not being as represented. I’d demand a refund and send it back.

No need to sell guitars you’re happy with, though. That would be an unfortunate emotionally driven reaction.

Emotionally driven selling the McCarty & DGT, somewhat...maybe? But a purchaser of a new Hollowbody II shouldn't have to wait 3 months, 6 months, a year? while it's being refinished to be able to play that guitar. That's bad business. And I bought the guitar to play now as my injuries have kept me from playing my big jazz boxes for a few years. The other options aren't great either: 1) loosing time and hundreds of dollars on shipping to have it refinished or 2) loosing on shipping both ways to return a guitar that was shipped to me with a material defect that surely must have been noticed during the dealers "Inspection Report".

Also, the Hollowbody was built in May and has apparently faded considerably over 6 - 7 months (and dealer states it was not stored in direct sunlight). The PRS' I bought earlier in the year are 10 Tops with vibrant colors and they've been in a dark house, surrounded by trees, with the curtains usually drawn. Next month we move back to a house we're rebuilding which will be bright and sunny, no curtains planned and no shade as there's no trees left after the fire. I bought those guitars to play and hang on the wall to enjoy looking at and I'm not sure I want to risk having those beauties damaged by fading. Before the fire I had guitars on the walls for years with no issues (but, there was a red PRS McCarty that I was given as a gift and hung it on the wall about 5 hours before a forest fire took the house so I'm now wondering if I should be owning PRS' at all ).

 

[Moondog Wily]

Emotionally driven selling the McCarty & DGT, somewhat...maybe? But a purchaser of a new Hollowbody II shouldn't have to wait 3 months, 6 months, a year? while it's being refinished to be able to play that guitar. That's bad business. And I bought the guitar to play now as my injuries have kept me from playing my big jazz boxes for a few years. The other options aren't great either: 1) loosing time and hundreds of dollars on shipping to have it refinished or 2) loosing on shipping both ways to return a guitar that was shipped to me with a material defect that surely must have been noticed during the dealers "Inspection Report".

Also, the Hollowbody was built in May and has apparently faded considerably over 6 - 7 months (and dealer states it was not stored in direct sunlight). The PRS' I bought earlier in the year are 10 Tops with vibrant colors and they've been in a dark house, surrounded by trees, with the curtains usually drawn. Next month we move back to a house we're rebuilding which will be bright and sunny, no curtains planned and no shade as there's no trees left after the fire. I bought those guitars to play and hang on the wall to enjoy looking at and I'm not sure I want to risk having those beauties damaged by fading. Before the fire I had guitars on the walls for years with no issues (but, there was a red PRS McCarty that I was given as a gift and hung it on the wall about 5 hours before a forest fire took the house so I'm now wondering if I should be owning PRS' at all).

The fact that you are here leads me to believe that you would like a resolution for this issue (which of course this forum can not provide). I don't think it can be stressed enough however, that this is a dealer issue and NOT a PRS issue and if they are rubbing you the wrong way, maybe you can dispute the charge on your credit card for being delivered a product that did not meet the description or photos. Sounds and looks like you have a good enough case for that, so if the dealer still expects money from you on this, I would try that route.

Hope you can find a solution and stick with the brand! As you know, they play like nothing else!! Sorry to hear about your fire losses! That totally sucks and I am sure it has given you a new perspective on the items you own and want to keep!!!

 

[Steve's addiction]

I bought a HB II from Willcut a couple of years ago and the piezo went bad on it. Willcut dealt directly with PRS and was fixed no charge. Like everyone said if they are an authorized dealer they should be taking care of this. Beat of luck.

 

[bodia]

This has nothing to do with PRS, and everything to do with the dealer. Any communication with PRS should be handled by the dealer. In this case, I'd say that guitar was hanging on the wall at the store and getting play time. That's the only way that hardware is going to get discolored. I wouldn't be upset with PRS (although I can see why you are). I'd be pissed at the dealer. If that's what I got compared to the listing pics, it would go back for a refund, and I'd look elsewhere.

 

[Drew]

This is a common tale. If this is a brick and mortar dealer, they have a big glass storefront without proper UV protection film. I've gotten a couple of guitars in the past that were seriously discolored because of that. The most awful way to find out is if the guitar has factory stickers of any kind and you peel them off to find the finish under is a few shades different color.

 

[Huggy Love]

As several have mentioned, this is clearly a dealer issue, and one that is well warranted as the finish & hardware aren't new quality. Expecting PRS to rectify this is like expecting the Ford plant in Detroit to deal with defective car directly, the local dealership that sold it is the one that deals with it. So washing your hands of the brand and selling off guitars you do like is a little emotional and rash.

As a Jazz player with shoulder & spine issues that has been thru a lot of physical therapy over the years, I have had to sell off my archtops and acoustics because therapy will not give you the ability to hold your arm in that position for extended periods of time. The PRS HB and other small hollow body guitars are the only way to keep playing and get the sound you desire.

 

[toothace]

I'm still not seeing that huge a discrepancy between the front and back...

 

[Drew]

I'm still not seeing that huge a discrepancy between the front and back...

The front is terribly UV faded. That's apparent when comparing the now pic to the before pic. Oh..and the top of the stud discoloration is typical UV damage as well.

If I were PRS, I'd be sending a warning to this dealer to shape up.

 

[Tony M.]

This guitar looks like it was on display in the shop window.


Shame on them.

 

[gush]

Sounds like a great way for me to get a terrible DGT super cheap!!!

 

[Dirty_Boogie]

I'm still not seeing that huge a discrepancy between the front and back...

Really?? (I assume you’re kidding).

That is clearly a faded front. As we know, blues and greens tend to fade on many PRS guitars, if left in direct sunlight. To me, this is simply a matter of receiving an unacceptable “new” guitar. There shouldn’t be any back-and-forth here - simply return it. There are so many fantastic PRS guitars available - new and used - that I can’t understand why the purchaser would even go through this. Just move on and something else, even better, will soon show up.

 

[toothace]

Really?? (I assume you’re kidding).

That is clearly a faded front. As we know, blues and greens tend to fade on many PRS guitars, if left in direct sunlight. To me, this is simply a matter of receiving an unacceptable “new” guitar. There shouldn’t be any back-and-forth here - simply return it. There are so many fantastic PRS guitars available - new and used - that I can’t understand why the purchaser would even go through this. Just move on and something else, even better, will soon show up.

I am not. To my eye, the darks are as dark and the lights are as light on the front and the back. There is certainly more light on the front, but I am assuming these were not billets from the same tree and we all know there is variation from piece to piece. That's what my eyes see. YMMV.

I don't have any skin in this game...if the OP is unhappy he should return it etc, etc, etc, yada, yada , yada...