NGD 2013 PRS 408 MT

[alantig]

Congrats, Corey. The 408s are awesome - you should have a blast with this. The wait sucked, but you'll be playing that beauty a lot longer than you waited for it.

 

[thieves&foxes]

Wow! Is that Antique Natural? WOW! enjoy your new guitar Corey she is beautiful.

 

[László]

Nice grab!

 

[CoreyT]

Thanks everyone, glad I took the plunge on it.
I will amp it up before to long, and give the pickups a workout.
I may register for a Sound Cloud account in a bit, and maybe upload a short clip.
Not super confident yet to do a video, but maybe later

I bought a Tascam DR-07 MK II earlier in the year, and have yet used it to record anything, so that will give me a chance to break it in too.

Just pulled off the stock end pins and put on a set of the Schaller Strap Lock ones.
All of my straps are equipped with the Schaller setup.
As with the SE guitars, the stock PRS USA screws work great with the Schaller end pins.

I was not expecting that type of finish on the back of the neck, but I like it.
I guess I can see why my dealer kind of thought it was a quilt since the flames are spread out more than a tighter pattern like I am use to seeing on my SEs.
I need to research too on what type of spray to use on the control cover to preserve Paul's sig.

 

[alantig]

I need to research too on what type of spray to use on the control cover to preserve Paul's sig.

JetWhitey, uh, white courtesy phone...


You haven't amped it yet? Just you wait... :rock:

 

[vchizzle]

Wide flames are nice! They're relatively straight though, I wouldn't call it a quilt. Congrats! she's a beaut!

 

[Em7]

I was not expecting that type of finish on the back of the neck, but I like it.
I guess I can see why my dealer kind of thought it was a quilt since the flames are spread out more than a tighter pattern like I am use to seeing on my SEs.

The figured top on an SE is an engineered product that is manufactured by laminating a thin figured veneer to a carved plain maple cap (a very common practice in Asian guitar factories). The maple top on a Maryland-made PRS is pure Mother Nature. If you look at the faux binding on the sides of a Maryland-made PRS, you will see that the figure on the binding follows the figure on the face of the top. That's because the maple cap on a Maryland-made PRS is solid curly maple. The use of solid curly maple instead of an engineered laminated maple product is one of the reasons why Maryland-made PRSi cost more than Asian-made SEs. The mahogany back on a Maryland-made MT guitar is also made from a single piece of wood, and the neck is made from quartersawn lumber. Maryland-made PRSi are no compromise instruments.

By the way, you can purchase a "player" cover from the PRS Store.

 

[CoreyT]

Thanks again guy's.

Em7, the stock unsigned cover is on it now, going to keep the signed one in the case.
Maybe I can get Paul to sign the one on the guitar if I get down to the meet and greet next month.

OK, I played the 408 a bit ago through my Blackstar HT5-R amp which goes into an Orange 1x12 cab fitted with a Celestion Vintage 30.
It sounds really good, but I get some hum when using only one pickup at a time,
No hum if using both pickups.
If I split the pickups and choose either neck or bridge, still a little hum, but not much.
Not sure where the hum is coming from, and if I touch the strings or bridge, the hum gets less.

Anyways, I made an MP3 with that Tascam recorder, but not to happy with the way it turned out.
A little distorted, I had it about 6" back from the speaker, maybe it needs to be back further.

Also since this is my first recording, I butchered up some chord changes
It is a lot harder playing when you know the recorder is on, so please forgive my flubs.

I messed up the DM7 chord on White Room when it first starts, as I hit a C instead
I never do that when just playing, but something about the recorder being on made me nervous.

https://soundcloud.com/coreytan/130525-0018

I am really liking the guitar though.
Oh, when the recording starts out, I have some delay on with my TC Flashback X4.
Later on playing a short riff that popped into my head, I have the Whammy pedals lower octave and original note engaged too to give it a dual guitar sound.

 

[László]

Thanks again guy's.

Em7, the stock unsigned cover is on it now, going to keep the signed one in the case.
Maybe I can get Paul to sign the one on the guitar if I get down to the meet and greet next month.

OK, I played the 408 a bit ago through my Blackstar HT5-R amp which goes into an Orange 1x12 cab fitted with a Celestion Vintage 30.
It sounds really good, but I get some hum when using only one pickup at a time,
No hum if using both pickups.
If I split the pickups and choose either neck or bridge, still a little hum, but not much.
Not sure where the hum is coming from, and if I touch the strings or bridge, the hum gets less.

Anyways, I made an MP3 with that Tascam recorder, but not to happy with the way it turned out.
A little distorted, I had it about 6" back from the speaker, maybe it needs to be back further.

Also since this is my first recording, I butchered up some chord changes
It is a lot harder playing when you know the recorder is on, so please forgive my flubs.

I messed up the DM7 chord on White Room when it first starts, as I hit a C instead
I never do that when just playing, but something about the recorder being on made me nervous.

https://soundcloud.com/coreytan/130525-0018

I am really liking the guitar though.
Oh, when the recording starts out, I have some delay on with my TC Flashback X4.
Later on playing a short riff that popped into my head, I have the Whammy pedals lower octave and original note engaged too to give it a dual guitar sound.

The hum is no doubt EMI/RFI that comes from nearby transformers, power sources, dimmers, computer monitors, refrigerators, etc.

I get zero hum and noise with mine in my studio room, but in some rooms I'll pick up a little hum.

 

[veinbuster]

Very nice addition.

 

[LJD]

Sweeet. I finally played a 408 (w/rw neck) today and WOW, I finally understand what the hype is about. That bridge pickup is fantastic.

 

[CoreyT]

Thanks guy's.
LJD, you going to pick one up?

Les, I get less hum as in quieter when using any of my SEs with that Blackstar amp.
The 408 treble pickup was much louder as far as the hum goes.
Could that be because it is a hotter pickup?
Also weird how the hum quits altogether if you use both pickups at the same time.

Also my powerstrip is a Furman line conditioning unit.

 

[László]

Les, I get less hum as in quieter when using any of my SEs with that Blackstar amp.
The 408 treble pickup was much louder as far as the hum goes.
Could that be because it is a hotter pickup?
Also weird how the hum quits altogether if you use both pickups at the same time.

In part, I'm thinking it picks up a little more noise because of the unusual size and design of the pickup, and in part because it is a hot pickup with extended frequency response, and I will explain:

On a traditional humbucker pickup, noise is cancelled by wiring the two coils of the pickup so the signal coming from each is about 180 degrees out of phase with the other one. This works like a balanced microphone line to reduce or cancel out noise that the coils might pick up (signals that are 180 degrees out of phase cancel each other out).

In the case of a guitar pickup, however, the phasing isn't perfect because the pickups sense different parts of the string, so along with the noise cancelling, you get a little bit of high end rolloff with most humbuckers. This high end rolloff makes the pickups sound a little less crisp, thus their typical warm sound, and the reduced high end also makes high frequency residual noise less prominent.

On the 408 you have a large pickup, that's sensing a wider distance between the pickup slugs and poles, and having it exactly 180 degrees out of phase is probably more difficult. It's a loud pickup with an extended frequency response. For whatever reason, it's a little bit more sensitive to noise than some of the other pickups, though not like a single coil.

And it's wired to add turns to the coils when split, so perhaps this unusual wiring scheme makes it a little bit more sensitive to noise.

The reason the noise cancels in the middle position is, once again, the two pickups are out of phase and the noise is completely cancelled out. "Both pickups on" is usually the quietest position in most 2-pickup guitars.

If you have a big, hot pickup with a broad frequency response, it tends to be a little noisier. A P-90 is louder, and noisier, than a Strat type single coil. Etc.

With the 408 you can see that it's merely picking up stray EMI (electromagnetic interference) in your room, because if you turn in various directions, the level of noise changes, and you can usually find a spot to aim it where there is no noise. It's the same with a P-90, though a P-90 is a heck of a lot noisier pickup.

Also my powerstrip is a Furman line conditioning unit.

A powerstrip line conditioner does absolutely nothing to reduce pickup noise. It also does next to nothing to reduce other noise in your system, and I'll get into more of that in a moment, but let me explain why it doesn't affect what your guitar itself is picking up.

The pickups work by interacting magnetically with the vibrating string. They're also picking up other electromagnetic artifacts that are all over your house; electrical appliances like refrigerator motors, lights, dimmers, computer screens, cell phones, TVs, etc, generate a lot of EMI. This stuff bombards the pickups, and the pickups are sensitive little things that don't get a very loud signal from the strings. And they themselves don't generate a loud signal. The signal is tiny, and needs to be preamplified, first by the preamp section in your amp, and then once again by the power amp section of your amp.

They aren't powered by the power lines, they're powered by little magnets. So a power conditioner is doing nothing at all for your guitar. It can't, your guitar isn't AC powered.

Now let's talk about power conditioners:

Most power conditioners are simply surge protectors with some EMI/RFI filtering. These filters are designed to prevent digital gear from becoming scrambled by small power surges, and all gear from blowing up in case of a large power surge, like a lightning strike. I once had an amp for my studio monitors affected by a lightning strike, and it wasn't pretty. When I turned on the amp the next day, it literally turned my woofers inside-out, and both it and the studio monitors started smoking before I ran over and unplugged it. Too bad, it was a nice amp (a Krell).

However, my tech also proved to me -- with an oscilloscope -- that many surge protectors with EMI/RFI filters actually induce more signal noise into a system than plain power strips with no filtering. I don't know why this was the case, but it was there. We wound up throwing most of them away after testing. The Furman ones were quality, and were pretty neutral, so we kept those.

A second level of power conditioner is one that also regulates the voltage, so you get a steady amount of power. These are useful if you have crappy electrical service, but they don't affect noise in your system to a significant degree.

The power conditioners that DO tend to help reduce noise in a rig or recording system are the ones that have an isolation transformer to completely isolate the power lines in the system from outside noise, and the best of these have "balanced power." Balanced power means that the two legs (+ and -) of the power are converted to be out of phase with each other to cancel out the noise, a lot like a humbucker pickup. This does tend to reduce noise radiated into cabling from power cords, etc., by about 8-14 db, and that is significant. Most of these also will protect gear in the event of a surge. So there's that, too.

In order to do this, they have very heavy components, and the smallest I have seen is two rackspaces and weighs about 70-80 pounds. Not necessarily something most guitarists want or need. And a decent one costs about a grand. I had my tech modify a SOLA unit that put out 2kVa, and weighed 150 pounds, to balanced power. The transformer was so noisy from mechanical vibration even before the mods that we had to mount it in my HVAC room on rubber pads, and soundproof the room! I was thrilled when Equi-Tech and Furman came out with products that were quiet enough to not need all that! And I currently use an Equi-Tech transformer in my studio, but have also had the Furman IT-1220.

Your Furman unit might be helpful in the event of a surge, or a slight brownout if it regulates voltage, especially in the case of any digital gear that's attached, but it does absolutely zero in most cases for noise in your power lines. I have seen this proven by my tech using an oscilloscope, as I had a rackmount Furman unit powering each rack when I had a lot of analog gear.

When I added balanced power with an isolation transformer, the 'scope proved that we had lowered our noise floor, and we could measure it. My AC wasn't bad, but we measured an 8 db reduction in hum and noise. Again, however, this had nothing whatsoever to do with guitar noise, it was purely noise induced in the audio from the AC.

Note also that NONE of these units solves the problem of noise caused by ground loops, which are one of the most significant sources of noise in most rigs. In most studios (mine included) the most effective solution is star-grounding connected to a solid earth ground.

 

[CoreyT]

Les, thank you very much for all of the info.
Detailed as always!

Later today (gotta go see the new Star Trek movie in an hour or so) I will plug the 408 into my bigger amp, the Carvin V3M which is a better made amp than the Blackstar.
I will report back later if it has less hum with it.

My youngest son stopped by yesterday and said there seems to be another guitar on my wall
He loves the SE Semi-Hollow Custom I got him last September, and I let him play the 408 for a bit, and he liked it.
Said it was very professional feeling.

 

[László]

I will report back later if it has less hum with it.

It's important to remember that the noise that you described has nothing to do with the amp, unless you're standing too close to the transformer and picking up noise from it.

The noise you described is coming from the pickups "hearing" the EMI that's simply in your room. It has nothing at all to do with the amp's quality.

That said, one of your amps may be less noisy than the other, but it has nothing to do with the guitar. How to find out?

Turn your the volume volume on the guitar itself all the way down, and you'll hear whether the noise is from the amp or the pickups. With the guitar's volume control set to 0, you're only going to hear what's coming from the amp, and the rest of your rig, like pedals, etc.

If the noise increases as you turn up your guitar volume, you know you're picking up noise in the room. If you move around the room, turn around, etc., the EMI the pickups are sensing may change and vary the noise level.

If you're using powered pedals with the amp, or other outboard gear, it's possible that you have ground loops as well. These tend to make EMI much worse, or subtly worse, and it's hard to diagnose without knowing how to go about solving the problems, which is a subject that's too involved for this post.

 

[Brad737]

I like the front, but man the back is awesome. I hope you have a lot of fun with her.

 

[HighGain510]

Yowza! The top AND back are gorgeous! Congrats man!

 

[CoreyT]

Thanks guy's!

Les, just got done playing into both amps.
Rolled the volume down to zero as you instructed, and all noise went away except for slight hiss from the speakers, but that is normal with it on.
Roll the volume up and the hum comes back except for the middle position using both pickups.
Well there is a tad of hum, but not like with using either pickup alone.

Now this is on the gain channel on both amps.
If I use the clean channel, there is no hum really to speak of.

So it must be the gain stage that is introducing it on both amps?

Did an experiment with the Carvin on the clean channel.
I always have the gain on about 50%, so that channel is nice and sparkling clean, very Fenderish.
For kicks I cranked the gain up all the way on that channel and I got a crunch tone very much like Malcolm Young of AC/DC.
Still with the clean channels gain cranked to max, there was no hum, just getting the hum on the drive dirty channels.
I did not know the amp would do that since I mainly play on either channel 1 or 2 which are identical gain channels, with channel 3 being the clean one.

The two dirty channels you do not need an overdrive, fuzz, or distortion pedal at all, the amp can get pretty dirty or metal sounding on those two channels.

 

[László]

Thanks guy's!

Les, just got done playing into both amps.
Rolled the volume down to zero as you instructed, and all noise went away except for slight hiss from the speakers, but that is normal with it on.
Roll the volume up and the hum comes back except for the middle position using both pickups.
Well there is a tad of hum, but not like with using either pickup alone.

Now this is on the gain channel on both amps.
If I use the clean channel, there is no hum really to speak of.

So it must be the gain stage that is introducing it on both amps?

Did an experiment with the Carvin on the clean channel.
I always have the gain on about 50%, so that channel is nice and sparkling clean, very Fenderish.
For kicks I cranked the gain up all the way on that channel and I got a crunch tone very much like Malcolm Young of AC/DC.
Still with the clean channels gain cranked to max, there was no hum, just getting the hum on the drive dirty channels.
I did not know the amp would do that since I mainly play on either channel 1 or 2 which are identical gain channels, with channel 3 being the clean one.

The two dirty channels you do not need an overdrive, fuzz, or distortion pedal at all, the amp can get pretty dirty or metal sounding on those two channels.

That's to be expected. The preamp gain stage increases the volume that hits the preamp tubes, which causes them to distort. Increase the volume hitting the preamp tubes, and along with the signal you increase the noise.

 

[sergiodeblanc]

I got to play the mahogany version with a rosewood neck today! (Chris' old blue one)

Killer guitar!! It was kinda weird at first not having the typical volume loss associated with the split sounds, a really versatile instrument for sure... And man are those switches tiny!
I'm impressed with the pickups, totally useable.