NGD: 2003 Santana III

aamefford

The (should be) Committed
Joined
Nov 17, 2021
Messages
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Finally getting to my NGD! Thread. So many folks here helped, chided, enabled and advised on what guitar I should get with my GAS money burning a hole in my pocket. I wanted something that qualified as “Core” that I could afford. Enter the 20 year old Santana III. I really like it so far. The neck is a great fit for my hands, the pickups sound great and it rings like a bell acoustically.

I picked up the Music Nomad setup gage kit, figuring I have two electrics to set up, and the gage kit costs about what a set up does. I’ve gotten the truss rod where it needs to be, and the action at .06” low E and .05” high E with no buzz. I’ve got the string radius at 10” about as well as I can get it. It currently has .011’s on it per the seller. I have a couple questions for the group:

1) in the Last photo, the high E bridge saddle can be seen to be pretty much down as far as it will go. Given I’ve got the high E at .05” should this be of concern?

2) I’ll very likely put 10’s on this eventually. Again, any concerns with the high E saddle being at minimum height already? It seems that 10’s would technically raise the action half a thousandth. And yes, I’m very clear that half a thousandth is about 1/6 the width of a human hair. Except for red ones.

3) If I need to go lower with the high E saddle, is the next step CAREFULLY dropping the 6 trem pivot screws?

4) what color is this thing?

Ok, enough set up questions. I love the top on this. Some nice, subtle flame, not over the top. I like the feel of the neck. The “weird” Santana knob placement still falls to pinky finger pretty nicely, I don’t seem to mind it. It’s 8 lbs, 4 oz, give or take. A couple pounds heavier than my daughter at birth! Not bad, but a couple lbs heavier than my S2 Studio. The weight increases to about 42 lb with the hardshell case included…. PRS cases are HEAVY!

Ok ‘nuff blathering - a few picks of my first Core!

 
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Finally getting to my NGD! Thread. So many folks here helped, chided, enabled and advised on what guitar I should get with my GAS money burning a hole in my pocket. I wanted something that qualified as “Core” that I could afford. Enter the 20 year old Santana III. I really like it so far. The neck is a great fit for my hands, the pickups sound great and it rings like a bell acoustically.

I picked up the Music Nomad setup gage kit, figuring I have two electrics to set up, and the gage kit costs about what a set up does. I’ve gotten the truss rod where it needs to be, and the action at .06” low E and .05” high E with no buzz. I’ve got the string radius at 10” about as well as I can get it. It currently has .011’s on it per the seller. I have a couple questions for the group:

1) in the Last photo, the high E bridge saddle can be seen to be pretty much down as far as it will go. Given I’ve got the high E at .05” should this be of concern?

2) I’ll very likely put 10’s on this eventually. Again, any concerns with the high E saddle being at minimum height already? It seems that 10’s would technically raise the action half a thousandth. And yes, I’m very clear that half a thousandth is about 1/6 the width of a human hair. Except for red ones.

3) If I need to go lower with the high E saddle, is the next step CAREFULLY dropping the 6 trem pivot screws?

4) what color is this thing?

Ok, enough set up questions. I love the top on this. Some nice, subtle flame, not over the top. I like the feel of the neck. The “weird” Santana knob placement still falls to pinky finger pretty nicely, I don’t seem to mind it. It’s 8 lbs, 4 oz, give or take. A couple pounds heavier than my daughter at birth! Not bad, but a couple lbs heavier than my S2 Studio. The weight increases to about 42 lb with the hardshell case included…. PRS cases are HEAVY!

Ok ‘nuff blathering - a few picks of my first Core!

Sweet! Santanas Rule!

Re 1) .05 is a pretty low action. you looking for less?
Re 2) I fail to understand how a different gauge string would raise the action?
Re 3) There's a way, but it's not your solution.

How's the relief doing? if there's room, tightening truss rod would drop action and give you some play to raise saddle
 
Sweet! Santanas Rule!

Re 1) .05 is a pretty low action. you looking for less?
Re 2) I fail to understand how a different gauge string would raise the action?
Re 3) There's a way, but it's not your solution.

How's the relief doing? if there's room, tightening truss rod would drop action and give you some play to raise saddle
1) I’m fine with the .05 actually. It’s just at the bottom of the adjustment.
2) splitting hairs, so no difference that could be detected. The high E on a .010 is .001” smaller than on a .011, so it would be .0005” higher. In real life, you are correct, no difference anyone could tell.
3) curious?

Relief is good, at least using the Music Nomad method of fretting at the first and twelfth fret, and measuring clearance at the sixth fret. The .006” feeler gage slides right in. I suspect the neck could be flattened ever so slightly more without issue.

I did notice that the bridge is not perfectly parallel with the strings. It tips ever so slightly away from the bridge pick up, making the bridge at most 1/32 closer to the strings at the pickup side corner of the bridge as compared to right at the saddle. If I’m thinking right, this would raise the action as compared to dead nuts parallel? I should loosen the strings, loosen the trem spring tension at the claw very slightly, and retune, then recheck until I get the strings parallel, correct? Or is 1/32” not enough to worry about?

Last, tuning stability is only ok. I think a good cleaning, nut lube and new strings should probably settle it in. And be a start over on set up, because I’ll switch from 11’s to 10’s.

Damn I’m long winded. Sorry about that.
 
1) I’m fine with the .05 actually. It’s just at the bottom of the adjustment.
2) splitting hairs, so no difference that could be detected. The high E on a .010 is .001” smaller than on a .011, so it would be .0005” higher. In real life, you are correct, no difference anyone could tell.
3) curious?

Relief is good, at least using the Music Nomad method of fretting at the first and twelfth fret, and measuring clearance at the sixth fret. The .006” feeler gage slides right in. I suspect the neck could be flattened ever so slightly more without issue.

I did notice that the bridge is not perfectly parallel with the strings. It tips ever so slightly away from the bridge pick up, making the bridge at most 1/32 closer to the strings at the pickup side corner of the bridge as compared to right at the saddle. If I’m thinking right, this would raise the action as compared to dead nuts parallel? I should loosen the strings, loosen the trem spring tension at the claw very slightly, and retune, then recheck until I get the strings parallel, correct? Or is 1/32” not enough to worry about?

Last, tuning stability is only ok. I think a good cleaning, nut lube and new strings should probably settle it in. And be a start over on set up, because I’ll switch from 11’s to 10’s.

Damn I’m long winded. Sorry about that.
For action I normally fret around where the fretboard meets the body.
Still a bit hung up re 2). Action is to bottom of string. The string sits on saddle and nut. Whether the string is .010 or 9, 11 or anything, the bottom sits in the same spot, saddle and nut grooves permitting.

Anyways, I’m not following the bridge comment… the front edge is not perpendicular to neck? It could be that the knife edge is not sitting properly in the right spot on the body screws. That would explain a lot of things.
 
maybe this will help. I struggled to get a good photo.

ah, now I get it.
Checked on my CE24 and Santana. They do run parallel for bridge plate and strings. While technically not a must in general as other brands might have a neck angle involved, it looks like PRS guitars do have them parallel at least on my sample size of n=2.

Your height off the body looks good, so it is a bit curious to see them at that angle, especially since you're already running such low saddles. But maybe the III runs a little different than my two PRS.

Pretty sure it can still be dialed in. Just from reading, if your action is so low without buzz, maybe there is some room left to tweak relief and with that raise the saddles. Probably won't change the saddle break angle 'issue', but at least your saddles wouldn't sit right on the plate.

Try Nadir's TR spec link...
 
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