New PRS SE Custom 24 guitar - finish issues

[henryM]

HI All,

I'm very glad to join this forum as a new owner of PRS SE Custom 24 Black Gold Burst model. I bought PRS as I really like how they look like and for the easy playability of SE models.

But I have some concerns regarding the finish of the fretboard. I had to swap my initial guitar of same model as it had different cosmetic finish issues(previous one had paint drops on fret board). Now even on this replacement one I can see the edge is overly and unevenly sanded even slightly over the fret mark dots on the side.

I have attached some pictures here. I'm not sure if this is the norm. But I had much higher expectations for finish quality of PRS guitars.

Thanks for all your feedback in advance.

 

[Alnus Rubra]

If you’re unhappy with it, I’m sure you can return it.

If it is a really good, resonant guitar and you can live with it then keep it.

 

[Draconomics]

Call me crazy....I think it's inconsequential. I do see what you're talking about with the dot markers, but I only noticed because you mentioned it. If the guitar is solid, I wouldn't fret over it.

 

[Daryl Jones]

I'm surprised that got by the inspection all SE's get before shipping out to the selling dealer. However, if you can't feel it disrupting you as you play then I would ignore the cosmetic flaw. And that's easy for me to say being it isn't my machine to fuss over. We all have high expectations of PRS visual aspects, that's one of the reasons we are attracted to them after all. But talk to your dealer and see if there is a remedy that will be acceptable. I'm sure there is a Luther that could work some magic on that. Otherwise, there should be a return/replace option...

 

[SinSir]

Call me crazy....I think it's inconsequential. I do see what you're talking about with the dot markers, but I only noticed because you mentioned it. If the guitar is solid, I wouldn't fret over it.

I agree. Many of the expectations these days are often something I wouldn't notice or give a second thought to after noticing. It's most important to me if a guitar feels, plays, and sounds good.

And I'm not saying my way is right either..it's just me. I know we expect a lot from PRS, but they deliver a heck of an overall product with the SE for a fair price. I'm willing to give a little grace for what PRS got right.

 

[Draconomics]

I agree. Many of the expectations these days are often something I wouldn't notice or give a second thought to after noticing. It's most important to me if a guitar feels, plays, and sounds good.

And I'm not saying my way is right either..it's just me. I know we expect a lot from PRS, but they deliver a heck of an overall product with the SE for a fair price. I'm willing to give a little grace for what PRS got right.

I agree with ya. I mean...that factory must crank out a crazy amount of guitars each day. For SE's to maintain such a pretty solid track record with mostly insignificant defects that are generally cosmetic, that's pretty amazing. If you get those defects on a $3000+ US made guitar...I think that's a bit of a different story (looking at you big G).

 

[Ruffone]

I agree with ya. I mean...that factory must crank out a crazy amount of guitars each day. For SE's to maintain such a pretty solid track record with mostly insignificant defects that are generally cosmetic, that's pretty amazing. If you get those defects on a $3000+ US made guitar...I think that's a bit of a different story (looking at you big G).

I wouldn’t call that insignificant, the finish is totally gone on the edge of the fretboard in that location. If any moisture gets in there it could cause more of the finish to start flaking off the edge of the fretboard. It shouldn’t matter if it’s an SE or a core, you paid for a new guitar and you should get a new guitar. As for the track record, he said this is the second SE guitar that he has received in a row with defects. Is this now going to become the norm?

 

[Draconomics]

I wouldn’t call that insignificant, the finish is totally gone on the edge of the fretboard in that location. If any moisture gets in there it could cause more of the finish to start flaking off the edge of the fretboard. It shouldn’t matter if it’s an SE or a core, you paid for a new guitar and you should get a new guitar. As for the track record, he said this is the second SE guitar that he has received in a row with defects. Is this now going to become the norm?

Respectfully, I still disagree. Its a cosmetic defect, but overall insignificant. I'm not seeing missing finish either, it's still there, you can see the reflection off it in the photos. The edges are just rolled a bit too much. Speaking for me, it wouldn't bother me enough to return it if I liked the guitar overall and was happy with the feel. One is absolutely entitled to a new instrument without imperfections, but we also kinda need to be realistic too. Imported guitars that are churned out at high rates will inevitably have them, even my Pauls SE has a little stain that crept up the rosewood at the body joint. That's what you pay for on a Core model: perfection.

The idea of this being the norm is sort of a slippery slope argument. Finding two with cosmetic defects is interesting, but given the vast majority of SEs sold that we don't see cosmetic imperfections on or that they do and the respective owners don't bother them enough to report, I wouldn't say this is going to be a norm.

 

[ElrytNamrogo]

That's what you pay for on a Core model: perfection.

Eh...even my Core models, all of them, have had some level of "imperfection" to them. Whether it's finish being over-sanded and slightly thinner than it "should be" or a headstock veneer not fitting absolutely perfect, there's always been some margin of error. I spend a lot of time looking at every detail of my guitars (outta love, of course) and will eventually find something, somewhere that could be considered "imperfect."

All of this, I'm totally fine with...to me, guitars are made by humans using organic material. For me to expect total and absolute perfection would be setting myself up for disappointment.

All this being said, I am in total agreeance with you...that if the guitar plays great, sounds great, and one finds it inspiring, then keep it and learn to love it even with it's cosmetic imperfections.

However, to the OP, if the issue bothers you enough...regardless if it's simply cosmetic or winds up affecting playability of the instrument, then I'd say reach out to PRS and see if they'd be willing to do anything with it. If not, then I'd return it. You spent your money and deserve to be fully satisfied with your purchase.

 

[Mozzi]

The way they make the guitars in Indonesia is different. They don't 'radius' the fretboard until after the guitar is basically finished. Its then 'machined' down to the correct radius, fretted and then, only then is the 'nut' slut cut to get the 'perfect' depth and height. The 'edges' are always sanded too as part of the fret work to 'break' any sharp edges and 'feel' better to play, like its already 'broken-in'.

What I am seeing is that process and certainly doesn't impact the functionality or the playability at all. It may not be 'perfectly' centred, but they still provide you with markers and unless they 'impact' on the playability, function, sound, then I could understand. Rosewood bound fingerboard, frets that look great, especially on the ends etc is 'crazy' good value. I bet it was probably polishing compound residue on the previous one - not 'paint'.

If you watch this, particularly from about 15.00mins in after the guitar HAS been through 'finishing', the 'paint/stain' phase, is when they Radius and Fret the 'guitar'. Maybe that 'particular' one needed a 'bit' more sanding to bring it 'perfectly' to shape so it feels and 'plays' perfectly as expected!

EDIT: Another thing to consider is 'tolerances' of QC. Does that impact on the Playability, the functionality, the Sound - and 'if not', is it even 'worth' the effort of replacing the entire 'fretboard' to centre some side dots 'perfectly' which wouldn't actually make ANY difference. Its not 'worth' scrapping a perfectly functioning instrument that costs 'little', compared to the cost of replacing it. Its 'not' cost effective to scrap a guitar for that and not cost effective to address for what would make 'no' difference to it as an instrument.

 

[Draconomics]

I bet it was probably polishing compound residue on the previous one - not 'paint'.

This. It's the same white goop that makes it's way into the truss rod cavity.

 

[Mozzi]

This. It's the same white goop that makes it's way into the truss rod cavity.

I find it very hard to believe that 'paint' can get on the fretboard after its already been through the Staining/painting department, then the Fretboard is sanded to Radius, so any 'stray' paint/stain would of been removed at that stage. Therefore the most likely candidate is Polishing compound. Even my Cores have had some polishing compound before.

You can clearly see that Radiusing has happened after the side dots were installed so could very easily end up 'not' centred as the edges get sanded more than the centre.

Considering the price, I don't know that you'd find Rosewood bound Rosewood Fretboards with 'intricate' inlays, great fretwork and rolled edges and the amount of 'bespoke' parts on a guitar costing this little and still be as solid, as reliable and playable as the SE's. Neither 'issue' sounds like a major QC issue even though these guitars are 'not' actually built and QC'd by PRS themselves, only QC'ing these after they have been built and passed by Cort to send to PRS to 'check' before sending out to retailers. Basically, they are checking to see if their SE's are 'within' tolerances to sell. If not, they 'scrap' or 'repair' issues depending on what is more cost effective on a 'cheap' guitar. If its going to take 'hours and hours' stripping an SE down, stripping off the fretboard to put a 'new' one on, redoing all the frets, inlays, side dots etc using US labour costs/overheads etc, it means that 'tolerances' maybe a bit more lax on things like sidedots - as long as they are 'present' and in the right place, not sticking out or affecting playability, its within 'tolerances'.

With Core, they maybe a LOT less tolerant on Sidedot position, but the way they make their necks, they are all made, radiused and fretted before they are joined to the body. If they aren't 'good' enough then, its much easier to 'fix' before its joined to a body, before it goes through Stain/Paint, before its all assembled and sent overseas to be 'checked' by PRS...

 

[László]

I agree with other posters who've said that, considering the price, the issue isn't worth worrying about. But if you're unhappy, return the guitar to your dealer.

The US factory has a great deal more people-years of experience building Core PRS guitars (and S2s) to PRS standards, and due to the much higher price, they can afford to take more time with each guitar, use the very best materials (hardware, electronics, length of time the wood is dried, full thickness maple tops instead of veneers, etc.).

Paul Smith is on-site and regularly meets with his team, and on and on. Many of the workers have been there a long time, some of the higher-ups since the beginning of the company 38 years ago.

The overseas-made SE line is great value for the money. But it isn't PRS that's making the guitars, it's a third party company making them with the logo, under license. They do a nice job for the time and money spent on production. There are compromises inherent in overseas production, but you still get a nice guitar.

That doesn't mean SEs aren't good guitars, just that it's difficult to expect absolute perfection every time out of the gate, as one might with a guitar that costs several times as much. That doesn't mean you can't find an absolute gem among SE production, because you can.

When PRS first started licensing SE production in Korea, part of the internet flipped out and predicted that overseas production would cheapen the brand, destroy its reputation, etc. That didn't happen, because basically, the SE line has had very good product and the market has responded well to it.

If the expectation is perfection, great, just keep hunting until you get it. There's nothing wrong with finding exactly what you want.

It wouldn't bother me, but I can only speak for myself.

 

[Lewguitar]

If you’re unhappy with it, I’m sure you can return it.

If it is a really good, resonant guitar and you can live with it then keep it.

I guess that's the way I see it too. Doesn't seem like a big deal to me., especially if it's a great guitar sounding and playing guitar.

Looks like they rounded the edges of the fingerboard over to make it feel good, but because they couldn't do that as easily after the neck meets the body, they didn't round it over so much from then on.

So to the OP: would you rather they rounded the edges less on the neck, the way they're rounded less after the neck meets the body?

 

[Ruffone]

Respectfully, I still disagree. Its a cosmetic defect, but overall insignificant. I'm not seeing missing finish either, it's still there, you can see the reflection off it in the photos. The edges are just rolled a bit too much. Speaking for me, it wouldn't bother me enough to return it if I liked the guitar overall and was happy with the feel. One is absolutely entitled to a new instrument without imperfections, but we also kinda need to be realistic too. Imported guitars that are churned out at high rates will inevitably have them, even my Pauls SE has a little stain that crept up the rosewood at the body joint. That's what you pay for on a Core model: perfection.

The idea of this being the norm is sort of a slippery slope argument. Finding two with cosmetic defects is interesting, but given the vast majority of SEs sold that we don't see cosmetic imperfections on or that they do and the respective owners don't bother them enough to report, I wouldn't say this is going to be a norm.

It has nothing to do with perfection, it’s all about expectations. When I buy a new instrument I expect it to look a certain way, as do most people. And it’s obvious the OP was expecting one thing but received something not up to his expectations. So say you buy a Corvette and notice paint bubbling around the wheel arches and when you drive it you hear something rattling but yet the car drives fine. You tell a friend and he reply’s, “It’s not a Ferrari, what did you expect. It’s fast and drives great, don’t worry about those things. Just get in it and drive the wheels off of it.” Are you going to heed your own advice and just drive it and not worry about those little items? Of course not, you are going to go get the items fixed or demand you get a new car that doesn’t have issues.

 

[Draconomics]

It has nothing to do with perfection, it’s all about expectations. When I buy a new instrument I expect it to look a certain way, as do most people. And it’s obvious the OP was expecting one thing but received something not up to his expectations. So say you buy a Corvette and notice paint bubbling around the wheel arches and when you drive it you hear something rattling but yet the car drives fine. You tell a friend and he reply’s, “It’s not a Ferrari, what did you expect. It’s fast and drives great, don’t worry about those things. Just get in it and drive the wheels off of it.” Are you going to heed your own advice and just drive it and not worry about those little items? Of course not, you are going to go get the items fixed or demand you get a new car that doesn’t have issues.

Respectfully, the car analogy isn't...quite right. If I buy a Corvette, certainly...I expect a Corvette, but that's not what an SE is. To continue with the car analogy, an SE is more like a Vette made by a subsidiary of Chevy that makes a lower cost version, with streamlined production, and lacking certain bells and whistles to keep costs down and build times fast. You still get a Vette technically, but you also are aware there won't be the same time given to the details. I would thus have different expectations based on those factors and the price. There's nothing wrong with exchanging for another that is aesthetically superior, it's totally acceptable! However, I don't think it's realistic to expect 100% Chevy quality at 25% the price.

 

[Alnus Rubra]

I don’t think the price point should dictate the QC. The price point relates to the quality of the materials used, preparation of woods (as far as guitars go), cost of labour in a developing country etc.

About 20 years ago I bought an LP gold top (US), my wife’s cousin bought an Epiphone. The QC on the Epi was leaps and bounds above the US model, sadly. Don’t know where the far east model was made, but it was finished very nicely.

The US LP just had something tonally above the Epi, which made it stand out a bit more.

I’ve noticed that on sound bites of Core/SE comparison. The Core just seems to have that little bit more tonally which I like. But if I didn’t have the Core to compare, the SE would be a lot better than any first instrument I ever owned.

 

[Lewguitar]

I don’t think the price point should dictate the QC. The price point relates to the quality of the materials used, preparation of woods (as far as guitars go), cost of labour in a developing country etc.

About 20 years ago I bought an LP gold top (US), my wife’s cousin bought an Epiphone. The QC on the Epi was leaps and bounds above the US model, sadly. Don’t know where the far east model was made, but it was finished very nicely.

The US LP just had something to ally above the Epi, which made it stand out a bit more.

I’ve noticed that on sound bites of Core/SE comparison. The Core just seems to have that little bit more tonally which I like. But if I didn’t have the Core to compare, the SE would be a lot better than any first instrument I ever owned.

I always hear the Core model in those comparisons as having a little more presence. And the SE as having a slightly flatter and less lively tone. But the SE, if judged by itself, still sounds really good. If it weren’t being compared to a guitar costing 3X as much it would be very impressive. The exception is the SE Silver Sky, which in the shoot outs sounds about equal. Just slightly different. The humbucker guitars are the ones that the difference in tone is most apparent in. And even they are now close.

 

[Draconomics]

I don’t think the price point should dictate the QC. The price point relates to the quality of the materials used, preparation of woods (as far as guitars go), cost of labour in a developing country etc.

About 20 years ago I bought an LP gold top (US), my wife’s cousin bought an Epiphone. The QC on the Epi was leaps and bounds above the US model, sadly. Don’t know where the far east model was made, but it was finished very nicely.

The US LP just had something tonally above the Epi, which made it stand out a bit more.

I’ve noticed that on sound bites of Core/SE comparison. The Core just seems to have that little bit more tonally which I like. But if I didn’t have the Core to compare, the SE would be a lot better than any first instrument I ever owned.

To the price point thing, yeah I can agree with you there. Price shouldn't be an absolute determining factor of QC expectations, but I would still say lower prices should give some leeway in expectations, considering the manufacture process that yields more products faster and cheaper but also gives the craftspeople less time to fret over details. That said, SE's are consistently quite good and light years ahead of the guitars I started with.

You know what...Epi QC has often in recent years been consistently better than Gibson QC. I bet with a simple pickup swap, that would be all you need to get there to a US model.