New Member Custom 50H questions

[AXEL]

Hi all, new member here.
I just bought a new Custom 50 H combo. On paper and reviews it looked like it could do no wrong. I have to say I am a bit disappointed but it's only been a couple of days. The amp doesn't really clean up with the guitar the way I would expect considering it's cost. The gain chann is a bit hard to control, it seems to be a fine line between to much and not enough. I play a lot of classic rock and 80's metal. I'm using a Digitech GSP1101 rack processor and a GE-7 eq pedal in the loop (yes I have tried it straight it as well) and I have the levels set at 2 o'clock. I can send it back for a refund but I feel the amp has potential. I'm planning a tube roll (I understand V2 is the gain chann), speaker swap ( I have a bunch) I may try EL34's and if I do keep if over the 45 days to return I see that Voodoo amps has a mod to sweat'in things up.
Is there anything I've missed?
Anyone else feel the same way and fixed it?

 

[László]

I think you are the first one who's expressed dissatisfaction with one.

No amp is for everyone.

 

[elvis]

If you're planning to go through that much trouble, maybe it's just not the amp for you.

What guitar(s) are you playing through it?

You mention that the gain channel doesn't clean up the way you expect. What are you expecting, exactly? For example, I notice that the midrange bite of my Archon doesn't go away when I roll back the guitar volume. The tone gets cleaner and clearer, but it always has a bite. That is just the character of the channel. Is that the sort of thing you are getting, or is it something else?

You mention that you seem to get too much or too little gain. That sounds like a tone setting issue, like maybe too much bass, giving you too much mush at the right gain setting, but not enough bark at lower gain. Did you mean that all your knobs are at 2:00? Have you tried other settings? Bass at 10:00? Maybe scoop it a bit in honor of the '80s? Or knock down the treble and ride the mid control?

You did get the H, which I assume has 6L6. Those are great for dynamic punch and big lows, but miss out on the sweetness of driven EL34s. Maybe the C would have fit your style better?

I don't think tube-rolling is going to get you from here to there.

I'm a bit unclear on the part about

The amp doesn't really clean up with the guitar the way I would expect considering it's cost.

I don't think that is something that is necessarily price-related, or as implied, quality-related. It may just be the character of the amp.

 

[AP515]

I have the H but I don't run anything in the loop. My thought is, did you play with the gain on the loop? It is active even if there is nothing in the effects loop and it will change the amp (a lot). Turn the loop volume down and see if it cleans up like you expect.

 

[Rider1260]

You can also put in EL34s ( bias change needed ) my H had them in there when I got it
as far as the gain channel cleaning up it does a nice job BUT it is a gain channel thats why there are 2 channels if you want something with a bit of hair that cleans up push the clean channel and THEN dial back the guitar vol it works much better IMHO

 

[Deleted member 5962]

I have a Custom 50 head. Great amp! My first question is, what guitar are you using. I think mine cleans up very well, for as much gain at it has.

What guitar are you using? With my PRS guitars, it cleans up great unless I have a LOT of gain. But, PRS guitars are famously good at this and better than any other guitar I've ever tried.

With the Custom 50, the gain at noon is WAY more gain than a JCM800. Crunchy open rock tones are closer to 10:00 to 10;30. At noon, your REALLY screaming. I think the gain does come on a bit fast on the gain (volume) knob, it's EASILY controllable! It just takes smaller movements. It is not "all at once" or "not enough then too much" as you describe.

I can do the classic rock, 80s hard rock stuff all day long with the Custom 50. I am playing it through a 2x12 PRS cab. But I've tried it with other 1x12 cabs or 2 1x12 cabs.

Things we don't know from new guys... What you are normally play, what amp you're used to hearing, what amp have you played that did these things the way you like, etc. Also, is the amp new, or used. You may be suffering from a bit of "new speaker blues."

The more I play the PRS amps, the more I appreciate them. They are just more transparent, more "high end" than other amps. I'm sure some of that will go away with "less than high end" devices in the loop. I normally try a new amp for at least a few weeks to get to know it TOTALLY before I through stuff in the loop. That way, I can really KNOW what they did to the tone. Heck, have my Mark V for over a month and still haven't hooked any pedals into the loop.

I'd like to help. I've had two of these and played a couple others. Not experiencing the issue you are.

What volume levels are you playing at? Heck there's only a few knobs, where are they? Guitar? Pickups? Pedals in front? Dang it, this amp is better than this!

 

[AXEL]

Frist I’d like to say thanks to all of you for your replies .It was because of positive reviews/comments likes yours that I bought this amp and the reason I am being patient with it. I do believe what I am looking for tonally lives in this amp and is up to me to find it. As mentioned I’ve only had it a couple of days. I own 20+ guitars, you name it I have it or had it. I do have a PRS Custom 22 but haven’t tried it thru the C50H yet. My workhorse guitar is a Warmoth strat loaded with Lace Drop and Gains HSH. The humbuckers are wired for coil tap. This guitar gets a lot of tones but I would not call it high output. As for my prior amps, again I own/owned a bunch. Currently I am rotating between an Egnator Rebel 30, Marshall JVM410C and Tech21 Tradmark60. The TM60 is the workhorse of the lot. In the past 2 months I have owned an Engl Screamer and Friedman Dirty Shirley mini, both were sent back.

What I noticed with the gain chann not cleaning up was that if I had the gain set at around 11:00, when I backed down on the guitar the gain didn’t really go away, it just got lower in volume. It didn’t start to clean up until I had the guitar down to around 3 and by then I lost a lot of volume. It also changed tonally as I backed down, lost highs. PRS says in his demo video that the amp should not do this. I know guitars will exhibit this but it has never been a problem for me. I have the FX loop levels set to 2:00 per PRS suggestion. I have had the tone knobs all over the place including putting the bass on 1 or 2. I did try the amp at all kinds of volumes as well. Based on raving positive reviews I am going to keep at it. I’ve been busy the last night or so and haven’t had enough time on the amp. I am very impressed with PRS tech support. I just dialed them up yesterday and got a tech on the phone right away. He told me that both the 6L6 and EL34 are biased the same 30 – 35 mv. I have to open it up and see what kind of stock tubes they put in the preamp. I have had great success with other amps just flipping a tube or so. The amp is brand new. Yes it could need a break in. I am going to try a couple of broken in speakers and see if it makes a difference as well.

Sorry to come in here as a new member and not be gushing all over the amp. I sent back a Dirty Shirley mini, that pissed off a bunch of Friedman fan boys. I’m looking for advice. And by nature I am a tweaker. I’ve done tube rolls on all my new/used amps. Speaker swaps yield as much if not more than a tube roll. I’ll keep at it.

 

[rugerpc]

I understand the tweaking thing. People get the bug about that with many things like cars, computers, spouses....

I'm curious if you have a guitar or amp that was so nice out of the box that you didn't tweak it....

 

[AXEL]

QUOTE="rugerpc, post: 268031, member: 1584"]I understand the tweaking thing. People get the bug about that with many things like cars, computers, spouses....

I'm curious if you have a guitar or amp that was so nice out of the box that you didn't tweak it....[/QUOTE]

Amps, none that I can think of. But of the ones I still have, the Egnator, JVM, TM60, which took varying amounts of tweak time, but finally did nail the tone I am looking for, they are definite keepers! I recently bought an Orange CR120, a 120 watt SS amp. I bought it because I saw a guy using one in a band while on vacation in Fla. I loved his tone. Normally I would have never thought in a million years to look at this amp. It took me a couple of weeks of playing with the knobs to dial it in but I found it. There's not much you can do with SS amps except maybe speaker swaps. Actually I also not to long ago bought a Vox AC15C1X (Celestion Blue). That amp sounded great right out of the box. But it only sounds good LOUD!
Of my 20+ guitars, 17 of them have had pickup swaps.
Ya think I have a problem?

 

[rugerpc]

Possibly.

But a harmless problem that makes you happy.

 

[AXEL]

Possibly.

But a harmless problem that makes you happy.

With these endeavors, in the end, I have found my tone with this equipment. The tone in my head is very loud and clear. I understand the elements, speakers, pickups, tubes, EQ. etc. I am handy with a soldering iron. I have always played a lot of different styles of music. Two of my favorite guitarist are Eric Clapton and Yngwie Malmsteen. I’m seeing Yngwie tonight! I own both these guys signature guitars (of the few that are still stock LoL). My tone lies somewhere in between them.

 

[rugerpc]

The tone in my head might possibly be that of David Gilmour's.

The tone in my hands can reasonably be approximated by putting a worn needle in a cheap phonograph and playing a copy of "Whales with Hairlips" backwards.

Welcome to the forum.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

Axel, first off, don't apologize for not joining the forum with a gushing review. Your post is thoughtful and clearly NOT a bashing post. The voice of this amp is different, but now that you mentioned what you are after, I think this might be one of your grail amps! This is a smoother gain when the gain goes up... Which plays right into the tones you're going for!

One thing I struggled with for months, was the V30s in my PRS cab. The famous V30 spike was keeping me from getting what I wanted. Played through two 1x12s, with Private Jack (greenback type) and Governor (v30 type) the tone was fantastic! I get away with playing fairly loud at home. I tried to pound them whenever I got the chance and of course the PRS cab got better and better as I got the speakers a bit more broken in. Then, just last week, I jacked that sucker up to about noon one day while she was gone... WOW did it sound great. The spike goes away and the speakers fatten up nicely when you turn it up that loud. (Noon with a 2x12 is REALLY loud at home. Stuff falling off shelves in the room next to me loud. LOL.

Said all that to say this. I almost gave up on the V30s a few weeks in, but the more they break in, the better they are. However, I am a firm believer that the speaker is almost as important as the amp in your final tone. If you have any other speaker cabs, try plugging it into something with a greenback type speaker. See if that's more what you're going for. I still may throw a nice Scumback M type in my PRS cab... But my suggestion, before you go messing with everything else (tubes,etc.) try another speaker or two. (It sounded fantastic with my Red Fang Alnico speaker as well!).

Lastly, I have put it off forever, but I too am going to try EL34s. SOON. I'll check back when I get them and let you know how much that does.

 

[AXEL]

Thanks for that info DTR (by the way I am a huge Petrucci fan). I have a couple of speakers I plan to try out this weekend. BTY I have read that the Custom 50H is loaded with a Celestion Classic 80 not a Vintage 30. I have never had a problem with Vintage 30's. I have a pair of older broken in ones made in England which I bought used and sound pretty good in what ever I put them in. For the Custom 50 I have a couple of broken in speakers from WGS, a Veteran 30 and ET-65. I also have a recently acquired new Creamback. I'll try them all and see the results.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

Me too. Just saw him a week ago!

Wow, you're in good shape with speakers then. I didn't know the combo came with a CL80. While a V30 would be good, knowing the tones you're after I'd probably go straight to the ET65 (which I haven't tried, but have heard lots of good things about) or the Creamback. But the Vet 30 should be good as well (V30 type, less spike). I'm betting one of those speakers gets what you want. Depending on which Creamback you have, my first choice would be the ET65.

 

[AXEL]

I opened up the combo yesterday.I had read somewhere that it was made of partical board, not so. Nice to see no void plywood and a well crafted job at that. As expected there was a CL80 inside. I took off the back grill as well, looks like all JJ's in there. The first speaker swap was with a new Cream back G12M-65. I spent a couple of hours playing, a considerable improvement. However I decided to try my WGS ET-65 (broken in). Much much better! The CL80 does not do this amp justice. Next I swapped V2 with a tung-sol 12ax7, again better! Lastly I swapped the 6L6's with Ruby EL34's. again, better. The amp to my ears is much more articulate, better definition. All the knobs seem to react more. I'd say over all a 70% improvement. I have to say I love the easy bias adjustment. I've seen this before on a Marshall DSL and the JVM. This should be on all amps! It was a breeze biasing from 6l6 to EL34.

 

[andy474x]

The user-friendliness of the PRS amps is hard to beat. Nice to not have to pay a tech and be without your amp just for a silly power tube change!

 

[AXEL]

The user-friendliness of the PRS amps is hard to beat. Nice to not have to pay a tech and be without your amp just for a silly power tube change!

I totally agree. I have no problem biasing my amps and have done so for years. Some are easier the others. Some are ridiculous. Try biasing a Blackstar. First spend 2 - 5 days surfing the net trying to find the location of the test points and the settings (if your lucky). BTY, all second hand info which is a little scary. Forget about customer service helping. Then pull the chassis out and risk electrocution. Contrarily I got a PRS tech on the phone in minutes and got all the info I needed. A big plus!!

 

[andy474x]

I totally agree. I have no problem biasing my amps and have done so for years. Some are easier the others. Some are ridiculous. Try biasing a Blackstar. First spend 2 - 5 days surfing the net trying to find the location of the test points and the settings (if your lucky). BTY, all second hand info which is a little scary. Forget about customer service helping. Then pull the chassis out and risk electrocution. Contrarily I got a PRS tech on the phone in minutes and got all the info I needed. A big plus!!

The only bad thing about PRS amps being that way, is that it ruins you for anything else! I cringe at the thought of owning an amp that doesn't have easy (or no) bias adjustments. It's just too much of a headache to think about doing it the "old school" way, when the external test points are such a stupid easy solution. Really cuts the field of amps I'm interested in down, luckily it leaves some very good brands, PRS, Mesa, and a few others.

With the PRS 2 channel format, add to the list of conveniences having independent tone controls per channel, effects loop that plays well with pedals, and the solo boost on the Custom, you're getting into a very well thought out amp that that has few rivals.

 

[Deleted member 5962]

Great update! Glad to hear this. Need me some EL34s..... I was thinking Ruby EL34BSTR hmmm...