New HX?

LSchefman

Historical Entity
Joined
Apr 26, 2012
Messages
28,430
Location
Michigan
Any of you guys use an isolation cabinet that you can run an amp into loud?

I've used them, but don't have one. It's a nice option. I've often thought of getting one. The big advantage of an iso cab over a load box with speaker simulation is that you can get the tone of the speaker breaking up, and control that a lot more than with most load boxes. A speaker IR is, after all, a static sample of that speaker, at such-and-such volume, etc. It's going to vary a lot more with a real speaker.

The only drawback is that there's less "air" around the note due to the lack of space in the enclosure. OIf course, that can be addressed to a degree with reverb, especially in a DAW.

The UA OX does a great job with emulating speaker load, however, because it uses algorithms instead of IRs. I'm not pushing this solution; I don't have one of those either, because my 'solution' is to just record freakin' loud and call it a day.

But there may come a time when my neighbors won't be hard-of-hearing old people, and I get nasty feedback. When that happens, I'll get either an iso cab or a UA OX.
 

DreamTheaterRules

Recovering jokester
Joined
Nov 20, 2013
Messages
10,802
Location
Cincinnati area
Any of you guys use an isolation cabinet that you can run an amp into loud?
No, but I toyed with it in the past. IMO, you can always "tell" that it's an iso cab recording, unless you have a massive iso cab. And without getting all audiophile, it makes perfect sense that you can here "that" sound in iso cab recordings. IMO, YMMV.

I still think it's a good idea for many people, just that I think it's immediately recognizable to the trained ear.
 

LSchefman

Historical Entity
Joined
Apr 26, 2012
Messages
28,430
Location
Michigan
It's not like I can't afford an ox or whatever, but spending another $1200 on a box to make your amp work for you seems a bit over the top, to me.

Interesting. I'm not saying this is wrong. Each of us is entitled to make our own choices with this stuff. I simply approach gear from a different perspective.

I think of an amp like the HX as an ingredient in a tone recipe. It's always a good idea to start with the finest ingredients. But the amp, even if it's a very important ingredient, isn't the entire recipe. It needs seasoning, it needs other ingredients. Get the right ones, and you have a gourmet dish, if you know how to cook (I have no idea how to cook, but my wife has drummed the idea of good ingredients into my head, and it's not a bad analogy!).

If you can build a tone you can love over the long haul with an amp, I think it's well worth the investment, whatever else is needed to finish the recipe.

My first question is: Do I think this amp would be a good ingredient to be added to my little tone arsenal? If the answer is 'yes', then the rest of the recipe is simply a matter of allocating resources to achieve what I want. If it takes some time, or commitment, so be it. On the other hand, if the answer is no, I've saved myself a lot of dough. ;)

I speak only for myself here. I'm not suggesting in any way at all that the HX is right for DTR or anyone else. Well, maybe for me...
 
Last edited:

Boogie

Zombie Two, DFZ
Joined
Apr 26, 2012
Messages
7,574
Location
Indy, IN
Interesting. I'm not saying this is wrong. Each of us is entitled to make our own choices with this stuff. I simply approach gear from a different perspective.

I think of an amp like the HX as an ingredient in a tone recipe. It's always a good idea to start with the finest ingredients. But the amp, even if it's a very important ingredient, isn't the entire recipe. It needs seasoning, it needs other ingredients. Get the right ones, and you have a gourmet dish, if you know how to cook (I have no idea how to cook, but my wife has drummed the idea of good ingredients into my head, and it's not a bad analogy!).

If you can build a tone you can love over the long haul with an amp, I think it's well worth the investment, whatever else is needed to finish the recipe.

My first question is: Do I think this amp would be a good ingredient to be added to my little tone arsenal? If the answer is 'yes', then the rest of the recipe is simply a matter of allocating resources to achieve what I want. If it takes some time, or commitment, so be it. On the other hand, if the answer is no, I've saved myself a lot of dough. ;)

I speak only for myself here. I'm not suggesting in any way at all that the HX is right for DTR or anyone else.
Don’t forget: the pursuit of the tone build is half of the fun. The more I’m tweaking a rig, the less I’m spending on a new one. It’s called return on investment (or cost containment, if you ask my CFO).
 

LSchefman

Historical Entity
Joined
Apr 26, 2012
Messages
28,430
Location
Michigan
Don’t forget: the pursuit of the tone build is half of the fun. The more I’m tweaking a rig, the less I’m spending on a new one. It’s called return on investment (or cost containment, if you ask my CFO).

Wait. We're supposed to be having...fun? :eek:
 

Em7

deus ex machina
Joined
Apr 27, 2012
Messages
904
Location
LSD (Lower Slower Delaware)
The big advantage of an iso cab over a load box with speaker simulation is that you can get the tone of the speaker breaking up, and control that a lot more than with most load boxes. A speaker IR is, after all, a static sample of that speaker, at such-and-such volume, etc. It's going to vary a lot more with a real speaker.

That is absolutely correct. What one does not get with an IR is back EMF, which is critical with tube amps. Tube amps are poorly damped compared to solid-state amps. What this difference means in layman's terms is that tube amps tend to not only sound different with different speakers, they also feel different, especially amps with zero negative feedback like a VOX AC30. A loudspeaker is in the same class of magnetic component is a guitar pickup; namely, it is a magnetic transducer. We just do not think of it that way. A speaker works by creating a magnetic field in the voice coil that interacts with the permanent magnetic field of the speaker magnet to move the cone. However, a speaker not only consumes an electrical signal, it also creates an electrical signal when the voice coil cuts magnetic lines of force provided by the permanent magnet on the back of the speaker. This created signal is known as back electromotive force (EMF). On a solid-state amp, back EMF is damped by the power amp. However, back EMF is not damped to the same extent in a tube power amp. Instead, it is fed back into the power tubes through the output transformer where it combines with the signal coming from the phase inverter. Back EMF is what makes a cranked up tube amp feel like it is alive. It causes the power amp to push-back on the player. Guitarists who have played with tube amps for a long time usually know how to ride back EMF to make an amp sing.
 
Last edited:

LSchefman

Historical Entity
Joined
Apr 26, 2012
Messages
28,430
Location
Michigan
That is absolutely correct. What one does not get with an IR is back EMF, which is critical with tube amps. Tube amps are poorly damped compared to solid-state amps. What this difference means in layman's terms is that tube amps tend to not only sound different with different speakers, they also feel different, especially amps with zero negative feedback like a VOX AC30. A loudspeaker is in the same class of magnetic component is a guitar pickup; namely, it is a magnetic transducer. We just do not think of it that way. A speaker works by creating a magnetic field in the voice coil that interacts with the permanent magnetic field of the speaker magnet to move the cone. However, a speaker not only consumes an electric signal, it also creates an electrical signal when the voice coil cuts magnetic lines of force provided by the permanent magnet on the back of the speaker. This created signal is known as back electromotive force (EMF). On a solid-state amp, back EMF is damped by the power amp. However, back EMF is not damped to the same extent in a tube power amp. Instead, it is fed back into the power tubes through output transformer where it combines with the signal coming from the phase inverter. Back EMF is what makes a cranked up tube amp feel like it is alive. It causes the power amp to push-back on the player. Guitarists who have played with tube amps for a long time usually know how to ride back EMF to make an amp sing.

Good to know, I remember that damping factor was always a big deal in audio amp specifications, something I haven't paid as much attention to since I started using powered monitors about 20 years ago.

You're very much on the ball, Em7!
 
Top