New Amp -OR- Midpriced modelers -OR- Is anyone here (still) playing a Tonex?

[aamefford]

Changed the thread title by adding “New Amp” in front to better accommodate my random flailing around.

I’m expecting the “just get something ffs” comment any time now…

 

[Bogner]

Archon I over II - sound? Build? Yes?

Kemper non amped:
+ I can run into powered monitors or into power station and cab
- I just fiddle too much with multi-amp things, it gets frustrating.

Keep the Mesa regardless of additional purchase. I get the never sell sentiment. Could I very loosely say the Mesa, very loosely, covers similar ground as the Archon?

For that matter does the Mesa crunch cover the Marshall tones close enough? Yes, I have the Mesa, and the crunch sounds decent. I don’t have a Marshall. Yes, countless recordings of studio processed Marshall tones, and countless YouTube compressed videos. The Mesa is decently close.

Cab For Now - Mesa Widebody Open with the 90 watt Mesa/Celestion Black Shadow. I’ll eventually buy or build a closed, probably 1x12 to compliment it.

So why get a new amp at all? Why not? New-itis? Less fiddly dialing in of tones with the HDRX20? HDRX20 owners please comment?


Edit to add - Yes, I know I’m flailing around here. All the options listed above are viable for me, including the Kemper.

The Archon is much loved here. I’m not sure I want a primarily modern high gain amp; I kinda already have one. From how i usually dial the mkV25, I’m afraid I’d be working on the wrong end of the Archon gain range. I generally use a lot less gain than I thought I would. That said, who doesn’t enjoy the Shiite out of cranking the gain (way) up once in a while?

The PRS HDRX20 has intrigued me since it came out. It *seems* that adding a pedal(s) to the HDRX20 will get in the range of modded Marshall. So I’m kinda leaning this way. Right now. This very second. Mostly. Maybe.

Or getting the Kemper and having all the amps I could ever want. Frozen in option paralysis…

Or doing nothing until GAS rears its ugly head again. Later. Like in 5 minutes.

There Are Many Ways To Go And None Of Them Wrong. A Powered Kemper Vs. A Non Powered Kemper Is A Slightly Different Beast Potentially. As Long As You Are Aware Of That Going In Then All Is Well. Mesa Isn't Marshall And Vice Versa. Close In Some Ways Possibly Depending On The Amp And Sound You Are Hunting But Not The Same. You Can Get A Pedal And Do The Marshall Style Thing Via Your Mesa's Clean Channel Have That Base Covered If You Want To. I Am All For Ams So Getting A HDRX 20 Is Not Something I Would Frown On..LOL. If You Have To Get It To Get A Pedal With It To Handle Your Sonic Needs Then It Doesn't Make Sense. Just Kee The Mesa And Buy A Marshall Style Pedal. The Kemper Could Do A Lot For You And Cover A Ton Of Ground. For Multiple Uses And Versatility You Can't Beat It In Your Scenarios Listed. The Floorboard Version Is A Great Value New Because If You Buy A Kemper You Really Should Have A Foot Controller With It. It Is So Much Easier With One. You Will Not Be Paralyzed And Should Easily Find Tones You Like For Free And Most Likely Already Loaded On The Unit From The Factory. I Know Myself And Likely Others Here Would Bend Over Backwards To Help You If You Needed It. I Love The Archon 1 But Your Mesa Loosely Covers Similar Tone Types.

If I Were In Your Shoes I Would Add A Marshall Pedal To Your Mesa And Grab The Kemper In The Scenario You Pitched.

 

[aamefford]

Thanks @Bogner. Looks like the CL Kemper may have gotten away. There will be more. Your logic is, well, pretty logical, thank you. Thoughts - Kemper powered makes sense, I can run any of my cabinets; all one of them;-). Kemper not powered would work also. Most of the time it will go into a little mixer and then a pair of powered monitors. I also have the PS2, which is a nice 6V6 based 50 watt amp, so that to all one of my cabs will also work. Kemper stage may never end up on the floor, but that doesn’t necessarily matter. Plus it’s *newer hardware* for whatever that may matter.

Ok, back to flailing. The MIAB pedal is always out there as short term GAS relief. Kinda like Pepto Bismol.

 

[dmatthews]

Thanks @Bogner. Looks like the CL Kemper may have gotten away. There will be more. Your logic is, well, pretty logical, thank you. Thoughts - Kemper powered makes sense, I can run any of my cabinets; all one of them;-). Kemper not powered would work also. Most of the time it will go into a little mixer and then a pair of powered monitors. I also have the PS2, which is a nice 6V6 based 50 watt amp, so that to all one of my cabs will also work. Kemper stage may never end up on the floor, but that doesn’t necessarily matter. Plus it’s *newer hardware* for whatever that may matter.

Ok, back to flailing. The MIAB pedal is always out there as short term GAS relief. Kinda like Pepto Bismol.

Take your time to make a decision.
I've had various amps, not an extensive amount but enough to know I don't want to cart them around anymore.
Convincing myself to dip my toe in Kemper has been a breath of fresh air. Now I don't need to feel like I need a new piece of hardware to find that "tone in my head". I just find it, buy it (if required) and use it.
From acoustic, clean, crunchy, high gain, and any effect it's all there. Humble to Dumble...
Plus... the connectivity is great.

 

[dmatthews]

Only you can prevent forest fires... fueled by GAS...

 

[Longneck Tenon]

I want a Plexi and JCM800-ish set of tones. I don’t have a fortune to spend. Low to mid hundreds, not thousands. The tonex always intrigued me as a viable solution to the Marshall want-itis and the Vox want-itis soon to follow, rinse, repeat. I went a couple of rounds with Pod Go early on. Too fiddly, too much stuff, never got on with the UI. The Tonex seems a little less fiddly, still too much stuff, but maybe good, and maybe good capture sets by others. I have no interest in doing my own captures.

My thoughts in order of likelihood:
Tonex - not too fiddly? Lots of amp options, but on the downside, lots of amp options. Stand-alone IR loader capability
HX Stomp family - same as pod go. Too many options, never jived with the interface
Freidman’s new hypetrain IR-X or whatever tubed preamp plus digital IR modeler - seems cool, lots of hype, $500
Other MIAB pedals - which one? How authentic? Good enough?
Ceriatone 50 watt chupacabra/Yeti/Molecular/Leviathon/JCM51 hot rodded Marshall clones - other than size, price and wait time, viable options. About twice what I want to spend, even used. Still, $1500+/- for a point to point hand wired 50 watt amp.
PRS Archon USA made 50 watt - dark horse, but giving it serious consideration. At all like a Marshall? There is one sort of close to me around $900. Seems high, but purple with purple wood face. Not that I love purple, but my lovely wife does.

Current gear, could be used with pedals, pre’s, MAIB…
Mesa mkv25combo with the 10” Celestion creamback - maybe the crunch is good enough?
Mesa open widebody 1x12 with the standard Mesa celestion 90 watt.
Fryette PS2, attenuator, loudulator, 50 watt tube power amp. I’m pretty sure you can open a beer bottle on it too.
UA Dream Fender in a box
Blues driver Waza, Sugar Drive (klone-ish) Boss OS-2 (OD/Distortion combo), Kelley Caverns reverb&delay
Behringer flow8 mini 8 channel mixer
Kali “studio monitors”, 6” woofer (decent, lean to pleasing over accurate just a little in a good way)

Help? Comments? Ideas?

Have you tried a PRS MT15 amp? I played one at the dealer, and was pretty impressed. They can be had used for around $500.

 

[WingerRules]

I’m just going to say this AA, I know you’re kinda wanting a HDRX20, but if I read you right, it’s not the right amp for the plexi tones you’re wanting. We’ve heard plexis pushed with OD pedals that sound really open and crunchy, but this is more the earlier Plexi tone that has almost a fuzz is quality to it’s OD when pushed, and a lot of bottom end when the bass gain channel is opened up. Not that it’s not cool, it is. I really like mine, but it’s not untouchable on the trade block if the right guitar or amp comes along.

And I’ll say this one more time. Re: the V25 vs. the Archon. I had a V25 and REALLY liked it. I had a Mark V and liked it even more. I sold both when I got the Archon. Much easier to dial great tones and much easier to change from one great tone to another. Enough of that. My gut says you’re really looking more for JCM800 tones than old school Plexi, like the HDRX. If you really want to try one that bad, I might even sell you mine. If you were closer I’d just ship it to you to try at least. I’m more of a 70s and 80s Marshall guy and as others have said, this is more 60s. It is cool though and WAY loud enough for any gig.

And, despite everything I said above, it’s pretty easy with the right pedal to push it into 70s and 80s M tones. It really is.

 

[aamefford]

I’m just going to say this AA, I know you’re kinda wanting a HDRX20, but if I read you right, it’s not the right amp for the plexi tones you’re wanting. We’ve heard plexis pushed with OD pedals that sound really open and crunchy, but this is more the earlier Plexi tone that has almost a fuzz is quality to it’s OD when pushed, and a lot of bottom end when the bass gain channel is opened up. Not that it’s not cool, it is. I really like mine, but it’s not untouchable on the trade block if the right guitar or amp comes along.

And I’ll say this one more time. Re: the V25 vs. the Archon. I had a V25 and REALLY liked it. I had a Mark V and liked it even more. I sold both when I got the Archon. Much easier to dial great tones and much easier to change from one great tone to another. Enough of that. My gut says you’re really looking more for JCM800 tones than old school Plexi, like the HDRX. If you really want to try one that bad, I might even sell you mine. If you were closer I’d just ship it to you to try at least. I’m more of a 70s and 80s Marshall guy and as others have said, this is more 60s. It is cool though and WAY loud enough for any gig.

And, despite everything I said above, it’s pretty easy with the right pedal to push it into 70s and 80s M tones. It really is.

I think you read me right. While I like the older 60’s stuff, I kinda grew up in the 70’s and 80’s. I spent the grunge years listening to 70’s and 80’s rock/hair bands/Van Halen and Rush and wondering why I didn’t like the Stones and AC/DC in the 70’s and 80’s, but love them now. I see three likely outcomes. 1) The Archon 50 I keep eyeballing continues to not sell and I finally buy it. 2) I buy a MIAB pedal and wait for a Kemper to come along. 3) a Kemper comes along. Long shot 4) I buy a Tonex. I don’t think I’d be happy with a Tonex though. I think you and @Bogner both make a good case regarding the HDRX20, and why I’d love it for a few weeks and then go cold on it. The little Mesa and I are getting along better. It’s still tweaky though. I put 12AT7’s in either V1and V2 or V1 And V3. It seems to be a little easier to deal with. I need to switch back, and then try the AT’s again one at a time, and decide if it really matters, and which I really prefer. Anyway, my gas is going from acute to chronic, so the urgency is less…

Oh, as to volume, I haven’t busted out a db meter app yet. Playing through amp and cab, most of the time I’m within 3 feet of the speaker, and I can hear the strings acoustically, so most of the time, I run line out to powered monitors.

I’m starting to think a modeler makes good sense most of the time, but still keep a tube amp, ‘cause tube amp.

Man I’m long winded sometimes.

 

[RickP]

I just ordered a Tonex… sold my FlyRig 5, which was my backup to my Fractal rig so I needed an updated backup to the FM9T. The other guitarist I gig with is building a new pedalboard using a Tonex, so I figured I’d get one and we’d both have a backup. I’ll let you know what I think about it once I get some time on it.

On the tube amp thing, I’m with you. I’ve been using the Fractal gear live since 2011, but still have a bunch of tube amps. I still use them at jams, and let friends play them when they come over. A good tube amp is never going to be a bad thing to own. It is, after all, what the modelers are modeling!

 

[BigChrisW]

I use a Tonex on my practice board at home and I love it. I spend a few quid (bucks...) on some captures by Amalgam Captures and I get some great tones. Not tried it live yet as my Helix is perfect for that. I am very sold on modellers so I've forgotten what a great valve amp is like, but I'm always happy when I play the Tonex

 

[aamefford]

Tonex. Thanks for weighing in @RickP And @BigChrisW . Not making this any easier, lol. My concern with the Tonex is the interface/software/tone sharing market. How is it for a guy who sold a PodGo because it was a pia to program?

 

[RickP]

Tonex. Thanks for weighing in @RickP And @BigChrisW . Not making this any easier, lol. My concern with the Tonex is the interface/software/tone sharing market. How is it for a guy who sold a PodGo because it was a pia to program?

I’m about to find out!

In fairness, I’m a dozen years in on Fractal gear and, although you can literally just play on the presets that come with it (some of them are very, very good), the “programming” waters get as deep as they go in the modeling world. Much deeper than I’ve ever needed to go. But there is nothing I can’t do that I need or want to do. Once you get your mind right, us older guys are as good at setting them up as anyone. And because we’ve played on the actual amps (or something similar), we know what to tweak to get our sound. It’s not as daunting as it appears.

So, I’m expecting the Tonex to be familiar, if different, to set up. That might be an advantage for me. We’ll see!

I can identify with your conundrum, though. I’ve got some great amps. But all of them, Super Reverb/PRS HXDA/Vox AC30/Boogie Mk I/etc, need to be turned up to sound right and there isn’t a lot of opportunity to do that. I have two options: my Ox Box, which is my home solution but a costly one that’s not on your list, and the Fractal FM9T, my traveling or gigging solution.

Because I played tube amps forever, I’ve got plenty of stomp boxes to use with the Tonex in a pedalboard setup. I’m looking forward to seeing how it compares.

 

[bodia]

I'll add this....I had a MkV when I got the Archon. I really liked the MkV, but found it difficult to get a consistent tone that I liked. One day it was awesome, next day it just didn't sound the same even though I hadn't touched a thing. Plus, way too many options! So, I grabbed a 50w Purple Archon head. I had that for a week when I decided I was going to get rid of the MkV. There was I guy on this forum that I knew wanted one, bad. PM'd him. Made a deal and shipped the MkV to him. That guy....DreamTheaterRules. Who convinced him that he really needed to try an Archon. That would be me. Then DTR gets an Archon, falls in love with it, and sells the MkV. Can't go wrong with the Archon! Still love mine.

And full disclosure; I also have a Kemper Stage and Kemper Powered Kabinet that I also love. The Archon is upstairs, and the Kemper is in the basement. Unfortunately, they are both being ignored recently as I am just not touching guitars much.

 

[dmatthews]

I'll add this....I had a MkV when I got the Archon. I really liked the MkV, but found it difficult to get a consistent tone that I liked. One day it was awesome, next day it just didn't sound the same even though I hadn't touched a thing. Plus, way too many options! So, I grabbed a 50w Purple Archon head. I had that for a week when I decided I was going to get rid of the MkV. There was I guy on this forum that I knew wanted one, bad. PM'd him. Made a deal and shipped the MkV to him. That guy....DreamTheaterRules. Who convinced him that he really needed to try an Archon. That would be me. Then DTR gets an Archon, falls in love with it, and sells the MkV. Can't go wrong with the Archon! Still love mine.

And full disclosure; I also have a Kemper Stage and Kemper Powered Kabinet that I also love. The Archon is upstairs, and the Kemper is in the basement. Unfortunately, they are both being ignored recently as I am just not touching guitars much.

Good insights!
And am I going to have to drive out there (with my guitars) and personally get you back in the saddle?

 

[WingerRules]

I just ordered a Tonex… sold my FlyRig 5, which was my backup to my Fractal rig so I needed an updated backup to the FM9T. The other guitarist I gig with is building a new pedalboard using a Tonex, so I figured I’d get one and we’d both have a backup. I’ll let you know what I think about it once I get some time on it.

On the tube amp thing, I’m with you. I’ve been using the Fractal gear live since 2011, but still have a bunch of tube amps. I still use them at jams, and let friends play them when they come over. A good tube amp is never going to be a bad thing to own. It is, after all, what the modelers are modeling!

Ok, now we're talkin! I need a review from someone I trust on one of these. Too many people saying it's on par or BETTER than Kemper. If so, I'm buying one! Can't wait...

 

[WingerRules]

I'll add this....I had a MkV when I got the Archon. I really liked the MkV, but found it difficult to get a consistent tone that I liked. One day it was awesome, next day it just didn't sound the same even though I hadn't touched a thing. Plus, way too many options! So, I grabbed a 50w Purple Archon head. I had that for a week when I decided I was going to get rid of the MkV. There was I guy on this forum that I knew wanted one, bad. PM'd him. Made a deal and shipped the MkV to him. That guy....DreamTheaterRules. Who convinced him that he really needed to try an Archon. That would be me. Then DTR gets an Archon, falls in love with it, and sells the MkV. Can't go wrong with the Archon! Still love mine.

And full disclosure; I also have a Kemper Stage and Kemper Powered Kabinet that I also love. The Archon is upstairs, and the Kemper is in the basement. Unfortunately, they are both being ignored recently as I am just not touching guitars much.

We need to be able to hit more than one emoji per post.

Love for the first part.

Sad face for the last part.

 

[dmatthews]

Ok, now we're talkin! I need a review from someone I trust on one of these. Too many people saying it's on par or BETTER than Kemper. If so, I'm buying one! Can't wait...

Tonex looks like a really good option for those with pedals they love. That's not me, but I'll admit to seriously thinking about it. I believe that Tonex has captures/profiles as good as Kemper, but Tonex had a better tone stack emulation.
Now with liquid profiles, Kemper and Tonex are so freakin' close. I'm sure I'd never be able to hear a difference. Tonex in a great pedalboard sounds like a great option, but I like all the effects in Kemper and don't want to build a pedalboard.
It's a great time to be a guitar player, so many options! And they're all great!

 

[bodia]

Good insights!
And am I going to have to drive out there (with my guitars) and personally get you back in the saddle?

Nah, I'll get back in the saddle. Have 10 days off around Christmas/New Year. If I don't get back on the horse then.......

 

[dmatthews]

Nah, I'll get back in the saddle. Have 10 days off around Christmas/New Year. If I don't get back on the horse then.......

Good on ya!

 

[Bogner]

I think you read me right. While I like the older 60’s stuff, I kinda grew up in the 70’s and 80’s. I spent the grunge years listening to 70’s and 80’s rock/hair bands/Van Halen and Rush and wondering why I didn’t like the Stones and AC/DC in the 70’s and 80’s, but love them now. I see three likely outcomes. 1) The Archon 50 I keep eyeballing continues to not sell and I finally buy it. 2) I buy a MIAB pedal and wait for a Kemper to come along. 3) a Kemper comes along. Long shot 4) I buy a Tonex. I don’t think I’d be happy with a Tonex though. I think you and @Bogner both make a good case regarding the HDRX20, and why I’d love it for a few weeks and then go cold on it. The little Mesa and I are getting along better. It’s still tweaky though. I put 12AT7’s in either V1and V2 or V1 And V3. It seems to be a little easier to deal with. I need to switch back, and then try the AT’s again one at a time, and decide if it really matters, and which I really prefer. Anyway, my gas is going from acute to chronic, so the urgency is less…

Oh, as to volume, I haven’t busted out a db meter app yet. Playing through amp and cab, most of the time I’m within 3 feet of the speaker, and I can hear the strings acoustically, so most of the time, I run line out to powered monitors.

I’m starting to think a modeler makes good sense most of the time, but still keep a tube amp, ‘cause tube amp.

Man I’m long winded sometimes.

It Sounds Like You Are Coming Around To A Conclusion In Your Mind Which Is Good! You Need To Sort Things Out In Your Head And Be At Peace About Things. I Really Have Genuinely Thought Of Everything You Have Said Over Time In This Thread And Played Out All Kinds Of Scenarios, Different Perspectives And Directions Regarding Your Use And How You May Use Things In The Future And Here Is What I Have Come To For All Of Your Mentioned Wants And Needs.

1 Amp Could Technically Do The Trick For You
2. The Right Pedal With Said Amp Could Be Your "Second Amp" Sound
3. Kemper Handles A Lot Of Options Sonically And Fills A Lot Of Holes/Needs For Recording, Overall Use, Etc.

If You Had The Three Above Pieces Of Gear I Genuinely Feel You Would Have All Your Expressed Wants And Needs Met And More. The Question Is Which Amp And Which Pedal?

Let's Talk About The Amp. I Like Mesa And I Like The Archon 1. You Already Have The Mesa So That Is Why I Have Leaned In The Direction Of Using It If You Like It (Which You Seem To Do) So You Aren't Doing Any Circular Buying And Can Use It Since You Already Have It. I Admit The Archon Is Easier To Dial In Quicker. If Dialing Things In Quick Is Important And You Want A Easier To Dial Solution Then You May Want To Move The Mesa For An Archon 1. I Personally Wouldn't Let The Mesa Go For An Archon 2. You Could Easily Use The Archon 1 Clean Channel And Add A Marshall Style Pedal To The Archon 1 And Be In Business.

A Consideration For Further Mental Torment - If You Want A Great Solution Based On All The Wants And Needs You Have Expressed That Can Cover All That Ground And Be Loud And Quiet And Sound Amazing Doing It Then You May Want To Consider A Mesa Triple Crown 100 (Not The 50). It Has The Built In Attenuator And Does High Gain, Crunch And Cleans Very Well. I Love Mine And Out Of Everything It Does I Was Most Pleasantly Surprised With The Crunch Tones It Does. If You Had To Go One Amp And No Pedals That Would Be My #1 Suggestion For You. That Amp And A Kemper Would Have You Set For Life Sonically And For Recording And All That IMO.

Think About Everything I Have Said And If You Are Not Truly In Love With Your Mesa You Already Have And Don't Have A White Knuckle Hold On It Then The Two Solutions I Listed Could Be Your Ticket. I Hope I Helped And Didn't Further Confuse.