Name that single coil sound... Is it a Strat or a 513?

[jchix]

Hey All,

I've seen lots of threads over the years discussing which PRS sounds most like a Strat. I spent a lot of time trying to understand the nuance between a 513 and a Strat so I could get that "Strat chime" from a 513. I think I got it, and I thought we could have some fun with it.

I recorded 4 tracks. All with a close mic'ed Morgan SW50 and an SM57. 2 tracks are a 513 and the other two are a Strat. I played the same riffs on both with the same month old strings. One riff was on the middle and bridge pickups and the other on neck and middle.

The Strat has no processing other than the reverb I added on export. The 513 uses an API Tranzformer pedal for a little eq to get that Strat sound. I also tweaked the amp eq a bit.

If you want to try your luck, post a comment with your guess as to which is the 513 and which is the Strat. The tracks are ambiguously labeled

Have fun.

https://soundcloud.com/jon-chickneas/sets/513-vs-strat

 

[AP515]

First some observations:
1. You got chops.
2. You don't play that Strat like a strat player. Do the same test with some chicken picken and see if we can hear the difference.
3. The test is fair, but only because of what you said at the outset. You were trying to MAKE the 513 sound like the Strat. The post guitar processing did much of that tone molding.

Now I'll take my shot.
The A is the Strat, the B is the 513, but it's really hard to tell. Great job!

 

[Augustaky1]

A is the strat.

 

[jchix]

Thanks @AP515!

I added one more riff with my best attempt at a little chicken picken. The main difference is the amp setting between the 513 and the Strat because the EQ pedal effect is really subtle. I considered leaving it off.

I will have to leave you in suspense for a day to give other people a chance to guess

 

[AP515]

I added one more riff with my best attempt at a little chicken picken.

Thanks for the additions. I am even more convinced of my initial guesses, but they are very similar.

 

[jchix]

To be fair to all guessing, I should be more specific about the differences in the settings. The 513 has a ~5db boost at 5khz and a ~2db boost at 200hz from the pedal and the bright switch is engaged on the amp. Everything else on the amp and pedal board is the same.

 

[Casi1]

I'm gonna go with A being the strat. Thats my final answer... I think. Wait. Yeah yeah. Thats my final answer. The chicken picken clip had me second guessing myself.

I had to listen to the clips 3 times. The tones are closer than I thought they'd be. I definitely couldnt get my 513 that close to the strat tone. Good job!

 

[ScottR]

What is...oh my bad, I thought I heard the jeopardy music I do that all the time...talk about an ear worm..

A. Strat
B. 513

If I'm wrong it's because...
A. I'm tonally challenged.
B. The Jeopardy Music messed me up.
C. I copied off that dude

Woo hoo! That was fun...so, do we get your 513 or cash if we win? This is so exciting!

 

[g.wizz]

the B sounds a bit darker to my ears which leads me to believe it's the 513, but that also could be misleading since you boosted the 5 Khz
so A might be the 513 and B the Strat, but I'm over 50 and my hearing is getting less accurate so...

 

[Dancing Frog]

I am pretty sure that B is the 513. Of course, the comparison is between the in between sounds rather than the neck or bridge which makes it more difficult to tell the difference.

 

[László]

If you want to amuse yourself for an evening, try the “Les to Leo” and “Leo to Les” presets on the Eventide H9 EQ algorithm with a few guitars.

 

[bodia]

the B sounds a bit darker to my ears which leads me to believe it's the 513, but that also could be misleading since you boosted the 5 Khz
so A might be the 513 and B the Strat, but I'm over 50 and my hearing is getting less accurate so...

I'm going with G (and others) and is sound reasoning. Both the EQ changes, and the age thing!

 

[jchix]

The answer is getting posted at 5PM PST today.

The prize is unfortunately only bragging rights. I would give my 513 away to the winner, but then I would need to saw it into equal parts for all those who answered correctly.

 

[Ovibos]

I was thinking:
A = California
B = Maryland

That seems to be the consensus here, but now I want to reverse my picks for better chance of winning.

 

[Elliot]

I'll dissent. I think the B is the strat. I just got a new strat and it was never my thing, but from what I've been seeing lately... B sounded a bit more strat.

I made that decision before completely reading your post. I'll agree B has more low end, seemed like a bit fuller tone. Also, the fact that you used a bit of eq molding on the 513 makes me lean towards B because it was definitely a more preferable tone. I'll stick with my original pick, however.

 

[Michael_DK]

I'm also leaning toward B being the strat.

Of course, I have neither guitar, so it's a fairly uneducated guess for me

 

[jchix]

A is the 513,
B is the Strat.

I enjoyed the commentary on this so thanks for playing along!

In hindsight I should have bypassed the pedalboard completely and plugged straight into the amp. I wasn’t using any pedals on the Strat, but since it was going through my whole signal chain I bet it sounded a touch darker from tone suck. That touch of darkness likely swayed people to think it was the 513. I use the API EQ partly to compensate for tone suck so it wasn’t the best comparison.

The bright switch on the Morgan amp had more of an impact than the pedal. I’m not sure which frequencies he is boosting and by how much, but it is basically my Strat switch. Without that on, I would need to add 10-12 db of 5000khz on the pedal to get into the Strat zone.

The bottom line is that with a good analog EQ, you can make a 513 sparkle and chime. They need a significant treble boost to trick anyone into thinking is it a Strat. I think another important factor is that I lowered the pickups on the 513 which seemed to make it more Stratty too. It’s also worth noting that I also turned the volume to about 8.5 on the 513 to match the output of the Strat.

There was a lot of A/B testing, screw turning and knob tweaking to come up with this strat sound on the 513. I basically gave you my best Sunday dress version of the 513 compared to an untouched Strat tone. Now that I know how it replicate it, it is really easy to dial in when I want it.

Some other facts about the guitars:

513 - 2014 Private Stock, Swamp ash back, maple top, maple neck, ebony board, Steel trim block, 10 gauge strings

Strat - 2013 Fender custom shop, Okume body, Maple neck, Rosewood board, Porter vintage custom pickups, 10 gauge strings

 

[Ovibos]

See, it's the okume body that threw me...not really.

 

[AP515]

Interesting results. You did a good job of setting it up.

 

[Elliot]

I dug the strat with a bit of "tone suck" on the neck/middle position