NAD! HDRX 20 - gigging guitarists are going to LOVE this!

[ken374]

I am still trying to find that “just right” setting with the deluxe. It does seem to have that echoplex preamp sound.

Just buy it recently?

 

[GGJJGG]

Just buy it recently?

Had it for a bit. But I haven’t played much until I got back into it more recently.

 

[El Fenix]

Had it for a bit. But I haven’t played much until I got back into it more recently.

Check out that video I posted. I stole Andy's settings from it for the slapback.

 

[Lewguitar]

I don't understand the difficulty some players seem to be having getting a great sound out of the HDRX 20.

I guess they think it's like a Mesa Boogie or a Bogner or some other modern high gain amp with loads of overdrive built into the amp.

It's not.

You're going to need a great overdrive pedal and some reverb or delay at the very least.

Just for fun, I have three Klon clones on my board at home: one as a clean boost, one for bluesy overdrive and one for rock overdrive.

I haven't needed the Hot Cake or Dover Drive since discovering the J Rockett "Jeff model Archer. They sound the same as my Klon KTR.

Of course I'd only bring a couple of pedals to most gigs: a Klon for a clean boost/overdrive and my Hall of Fame Reverb if I was using my HDRX 20.

 

[andy474x]

Well I purchased my HDRX 20 watter earlier this year.

I'm still loving it. It's the only amp I play through and I have lots of old classic amps.

But again: it needs pedals in front of it.

A great overdrive and reverb/delay at the very least.

They're a must.

It sounds dry without pedals.

But it sounds GREAT with the right pedals.

In order to go from a cleanish or slightly overdriven rhythm sound to a hot overdriven lead sound you'll need a pedal.

I recommend the J Rockett Jeff Beck model Archer. It's a Klon clone and worth every penny.

It also needs a great Celestion 12" speaker or two to play through.

That's another must.

So far I'm liking it with my G12H30 Celestion Heritage speakers. 75 Hz cone.

I am (hopefully) picking up an attenuator to go with mine, to see if I can wrangle the PI/power section distortion down to a reasonable level, and then run with a blend of amp breakup and boost/drive pedals. Actually got one yesterday, Ironman II, but it was DOA when I hooked it up. Going to possibly exchange it today.

Which I said I would never get an attenuator to manage a single channel amp… but, love makes a man do crazy things. The Ironman II has a solo level boost function, which will really open up the flexibility of the amp for the way I play.

But, generally, I would agree - while I don’t think the amp sounds bad with its own crunch sounds, it can be limited in range when the master isn’t turned way up. It can do some great things when pedals are added to the equation. And, who am I kidding, I’ve got a shelf full of them just waiting!

I think I need to give the G12H30 another chance. I had an OEM 50 watt version in an Egnater Tweaker 40 combo some years back, and didn’t like it, but more and more I suspect that was having to do with the shape and volume of the enclosure. I’m happy with the H75 Creambacks in my HDRX 2x12, but I won’t let a G12H30 turn me off from something in the future.

 

[László]

If the preamp section of the amp is what PRS says it is - just like the one in the USA HDRX amps - you have to remember that the preamp is a clone of an original amp that wasn't designed to get a ton of preamp gain like a modern amp.

The original was run flat out, no master volume. The power tubes being overdriven played a substantial role.

Hendrix used pedals; he even played clean tones through a fuzz pedal. Turning the volume down on a guitar cleans up a good fuzz pedal, adding a particular glassy tone. For a while Fulltone made an interesting fuzz that had a wider-than-usual range of that glassy tone. I had one, it was orange, and of course I forgot what it was called. It would've been perfect for that amp. It sounded great. I used it with a lot of my clean tones when I had it. [EDIT- It was called the Catalyst].

So the amp was originally modded in LA to work with Hendrix' tastes in a touring amp, one that met his needs with his guitars and pedals, which most of the time consisted of a fuzz and a wah, and later a Univibe.

Really, there weren't even very many pedals available in those days! No one thought about pedalboards when two or three pedals were involved, they used the floor.

Anyway, I think running it flat out with an attenuator is a great idea, Andy. You might get closer to the bone tone.

Plus it's going to meet the design goal of the original preamp section more closely than using a master volume. It'll be interesting to hear your thoughts.

 

[László]

I don't understand the difficulty some players seem to be having getting a great sound out of the HDRX 20.

I guess they think it's a Mesa Boogie or a Bogner or some other modern high gain amp with loads of overdrive built into the amp.

You and I come from an era when people played a lot louder than bands can today - I know my band did - and the amps that were available to us didn't have multiple gain stages, cascading gain, etc, etc.

So we figured out how to get the tones we were hearing on records cranking amps, using fuzzes, etc. There weren't even overdrive pedals at all until the mid '70s. There were fuzzes and treble boosts to blow your preamp section up, and I think that was pretty much it.

There weren't sound people at the places we played. The instruments were what was in the room, the vocals went through the PA. Most clubs allowed the volume, at least where I played. The audiences didn't seem to mind, half of them were stoned, anyway.

Even the big acts, like Cream, played with the PA only carrying the vocals. It wasn't until some time the '70s that big acts started touring with their own sound people and miked up the amps.

The first band I ever saw with a genuine modern PA was the Grateful Dead, around 1972, at Masonic Temple in Detroit.

Through most of that era, I played a 50W Fender Black Panel Bassman head through a matching 4 x 12 cabinet (I think it was a 4x12, anyway, I was so NOT into technology that I never asked or opened it up, but I do remember it was pretty big).

I turned the amp all the way up to get the goods. We played LOUD! I even turned it up that way when I was playing organ. And I didn't even think it was loud enough, I wanted more wattage.

I'm very lucky my hearing wasn't damaged back then! Thank goodness. I do remember my ears ringing for hours after a gig.

Thing is, in some ways it was a very different era in terms of music technology. I do, however, think an attenuator with an opened up vintage style amp is a good alternative to deafness if folks want to run an amp old school and get grit from the power tubes!

 

[Lewguitar]

You and I come from an era when people played a lot louder than bands can today - I know my band did - and the amps that were available to us didn't have multiple gain stages, cascading gain, etc, etc.

So we figured out how to get the tones we were hearing on records cranking amps, using fuzzes, etc. There weren't even overdrive pedals at all until the mid '70s. There were fuzzes and treble boosts to blow your preamp section up, and I think that was pretty much it.

I'm very lucky my hearing wasn't damaged back then! Thank goodness. I do remember my ears ringing for hours after a gig.

Thing is, in some ways it was a very different era in terms of music technology. I do, however, think an attenuator with an opened up vintage style amp is a good alternative to deafness if folks want to run an amp old school and get grit from the power tubes!

For the kind of gigs and jams I play, mostly blues, even this 20 watt HDRX is kind of loud and intimidating.

Although it's supposed to be about the same power as a 22 watt Deluxe Reverb, the HDRX 20's sound seems bigger, punchier and louder.

I have a pair of blackface Princeton Reverbs, modified to take a 12" Celestion G12 alnico speaker and a blackface Deluxe Reverb with a Celestion G12H30. Those are the amps i will never part with.

One of those is usually all I need for most gigs and any of them gets a great dependable predictable sound.

Sometimes I play two in stereo using the left and right outputs of my reverb or delay pedal.

But the last gig I did all I brought was my guitar, one PR and a Klon that I used mostly as a clean boost.

But in the 60's, I played through a cranked Twin Reverb!

 

[László]

But in the 60's, I played through a cranked Twin Reverb!

And what a glory that was!

In my earliest days I daisy chained two Ampeg Reverberockets together sometimes for my combo organ; they were actually louder and cleaner than the Bassman. But for guitar, I was down with that Bassman, it sounded good.

 

[GGJJGG]

You and I come from an era when people played a lot louder than bands can today - I know my band did - and the amps that were available to us didn't have multiple gain stages, cascading gain, etc, etc.

So we figured out how to get the tones we were hearing on records cranking amps, using fuzzes, etc. There weren't even overdrive pedals at all until the mid '70s. There were fuzzes and treble boosts to blow your preamp section up, and I think that was pretty much it.

There weren't sound people at the places we played. The instruments were what was in the room, the vocals went through the PA. Most clubs allowed the volume, at least where I played. The audiences didn't seem to mind, half of them were stoned, anyway.

Even the big acts, like Cream, played with the PA only carrying the vocals. It wasn't until some time the '70s that big acts started touring with their own sound people and miked up the amps.

The first band I ever saw with a genuine modern PA was the Grateful Dead, around 1972, at Masonic Temple in Detroit.

Through most of that era, I played a 50W Fender Black Panel Bassman head through a matching 4 x 12 cabinet (I think it was a 4x12, anyway, I was so NOT into technology that I never asked or opened it up, but I do remember it was pretty big).

I turned the amp all the way up to get the goods. We played LOUD! I even turned it up that way when I was playing organ. And I didn't even think it was loud enough, I wanted more wattage.

I'm very lucky my hearing wasn't damaged back then! Thank goodness. I do remember my ears ringing for hours after a gig.

Thing is, in some ways it was a very different era in terms of music technology. I do, however, think an attenuator with an opened up vintage style amp is a good alternative to deafness if folks want to run an amp old school and get grit from the power tubes!

The Dead at the Masonic would have been something to see. Grande Ballroom?

 

[ken374]

The Dead at the Masonic would have been something to see. Grande Ballroom?

Wish I was old enough to go to the Grande im 59

 

[ken374]

For the kind of gigs and jams I play, mostly blues, even this 20 watt HDRX is kind of loud and intimidating.

Although it's supposed to be about the same power as a 22 watt Deluxe Reverb, the HDRX 20's sound seems bigger, punchier and louder.

I have a pair of blackface Princeton Reverbs, modified to take a 12" Celestion G12 alnico speaker and a blackface Deluxe Reverb with a Celestion G12H30. Those are the amps i will never part with.

One of those is usually all I need for most gigs and any of them gets a great dependable predictable sound.

Sometimes I play two in stereo using the left and right outputs of my reverb or delay pedal.

But the last gig I did all I brought was my guitar, one PR and a Klon that I used mostly as a clean boost.

But in the 60's, I played through a cranked Twin Reverb!

My deluxe sounds pretty big cranked! my HRDX is running through a 212 greenbacks

 

[László]

The Dead at the Masonic would have been something to see. Grande Ballroom?

Went there many times!

 

[László]

Wish I was old enough to go to the Grande im 59

Nah, better to be younger and have a Time Machine!

Go see Hendrix, The Who, Cream or Vanilla Fudge, come back to now, take a shower to get rid of the stench of patchouli oil and pot, and resume modern life!

Where you pay $1,000 for a ticket to see bands from the nosebleed seats instead of five bucks from the floor…

 

[Lewguitar]

My deluxe sounds pretty big cranked! my HRDX is running through a 212 greenbacks

I'll bet. My DR sounds plenty loud too.

And with some guitars, like my PRS Soapbar with P90's, I prefer the Deluxe.

But it doesn't sound as big and thick (and British) as the HDRX.

Both have the same speaker too: Celestion G12H30.

As for ticket prices, I don't think I ever paid more than $5 to get into the Grande to hear Cream, Jeff Beck, Buddy Guy, BB King...and me!

Yep, my high school band played there with the MC5 and we were forgotten as soon as Rob Tynor ran out onstage and shouted:

"Kick out the jams, mothersmuckers!"

 

[andy474x]

If the preamp section of the amp is what PRS says it is - just like the one in the USA HDRX amps - you have to remember that the preamp is a clone of an original amp that wasn't designed to get a ton of preamp gain like a modern amp.

The original was run flat out, no master volume. The power tubes being overdriven played a substantial role.

Hendrix used pedals; he even played clean tones through a fuzz pedal. Turning the volume down on a guitar cleans up a good fuzz pedal, adding a particular glassy tone. For a while Fulltone made an interesting fuzz that had a wider-than-usual range of that glassy tone. I had one, it was orange, and of course I forgot what it was called. It would've been perfect for that amp. It sounded great. I used it with a lot of my clean tones when I had it. [EDIT- It was called the Catalyst].

So the amp was originally modded in LA to work with Hendrix' tastes in a touring amp, one that met his needs with his guitars and pedals, which most of the time consisted of a fuzz and a wah, and later a Univibe.

Really, there weren't even very many pedals available in those days! No one thought about pedalboards when two or three pedals were involved, they used the floor.

Anyway, I think running it flat out with an attenuator is a great idea, Andy. You might get closer to the bone tone.

Plus it's going to meet the design goal of the original preamp section more closely than using a master volume. It'll be interesting to hear your thoughts.

Hey, I'm always trying to get closer to the bone tone. Whether or not I get there often isn't up to me!

The Ironman II attenuator is really nice. It seems to work on relay switches, even using the front and back panel controls, and I think the first one wasn't working due to some bad relays. The new one works perfectly.

The real reason I wanted the Ironman wasn't just for the attenuation function, it was because it's also a more flexible reactive load than what I have now. It has switchable 4/8/16 ohm impedance settings for both the head and the cab, and because its reactive load is supposed to be one of the more premium ones that behaves closely to an actual speaker. I already have the Torpedo Captor, and it was a great starter unit to see if I liked the concept (and I sure do), but it only runs at 16 ohms, and the reactive load is criticized by some for not having the same depth and bass extension as a real speaker. With this unit I can run my Vibrolux and Super on a reactive load.

There are other units that are said to have the better speaker-like behavior, or multiple impedance settings, but the Ironman was the only one that had those, as well as footswitchable attenuation settings.

Anyways, the bass response is definitely more full on the Ironman, in a good way, running purely as a reactive load. As an attenuator, it works great, too - It pulls the best iconic plexi sounds out of the amp by running the master at full, and then adjusting the channel volumes to taste, really the preamp itself is running somewhat cleaner, and leaner sounding, when the amp is really purring with the master timed. Which retains a lot of overall clarity, rather than blasting the preamp for all the breakup. The speakers also behave differently with less overall output, a little cleaner there, too. On the other hand, I do still appreciate the MV, because there's some flexibility in pulling some more gain from the preamp and turning the master down for thicker tones that usually wouldn't be associated with a classic Marshall circuit. The sounds are no less good or useful than the cranked master plexi tones, they're just not "that sound."

I don't find it particularly inspiring for really choking the amp down to the lowest volumes, but that's no criticism of the Ironman - I just believe there are certain volumes that a tube amp doesn't shine, no matter what.

 

[Lewguitar]

Now that I own one, I don't think of the HDRX as being a Marshall or anything other than a great new British flavoured amp from PRS.

It's PRS marketing concept to stress the Hendrix/Marshall connection, and that's what made me buy it.

Now that I own one, I find that it inspires me to play the Jeff Beck and Hendrix inspired music a Marshall does so well, but the HDRX 20 doesn't really sound like any Marshall I've owned.

I don't hear the glassy Marshall "Crunch" on top of the Marshall overdrive sound, or the "Ka-Rang" when I play power chords. It's warmer.

The HDRX 20 has its own British flavoured thing, and it's definitely voiced for ROCK. and BRITISH BLUES...not Fender Deluxe Reverb style clean.

I have the tone controls pretty well figured out but each time i plug in I tweak the three volume controls to taste and according to how loud i want to play.

The master doesn't sound good set low with the preamp volume cranked to force some overdrive out of this amp.

But goose the front end with a Klon and a great reverb pedal or delay and it's a whole different story! The amp comes to life and all the tones I like are there.

For me, the master volume is usually about 1/3 to 1/2 up at home. Any higher is too loud.

Then I adjust the two preamp volumes, one for treble and the other for bass until i get a nice full cleanish bluesy rock tone.

Then let my pedalboard take over and provide the overdrive, reverb and delay.

 

[László]

Hey, I'm always trying to get closer to the bone tone. Whether or not I get there often isn't up to me!

Hah! I figured someone would hit a home run with that softball!! Glad you did!

The Ironman II attenuator is really nice. It seems to work on relay switches, even using the front and back panel controls, and I think the first one wasn't working due to some bad relays. The new one works perfectly.

The real reason I wanted the Ironman wasn't just for the attenuation function, it was because it's also a more flexible reactive load than what I have now. It has switchable 4/8/16 ohm impedance settings for both the head and the cab, and because its reactive load is supposed to be one of the more premium ones that behaves closely to an actual speaker. I already have the Torpedo Captor, and it was a great starter unit to see if I liked the concept (and I sure do), but it only runs at 16 ohms, and the reactive load is criticized by some for not having the same depth and bass extension as a real speaker. With this unit I can run my Vibrolux and Super on a reactive load.

Seems like a great unit (another softball re your bone tone line above)!

There are other units that are said to have the better speaker-like behavior, or multiple impedance settings, but the Ironman was the only one that had those, as well as footswitchable attenuation settings.

Anyways, the bass response is definitely more full on the Ironman, in a good way, running purely as a reactive load. As an attenuator, it works great, too - It pulls the best iconic plexi sounds out of the amp by running the master at full, and then adjusting the channel volumes to taste, really the preamp itself is running somewhat cleaner, and leaner sounding, when the amp is really purring with the master timed. Which retains a lot of overall clarity, rather than blasting the preamp for all the breakup. The speakers also behave differently with less overall output, a little cleaner there, too. On the other hand, I do still appreciate the MV, because there's some flexibility in pulling some more gain from the preamp and turning the master down for thicker tones that usually wouldn't be associated with a classic Marshall circuit. The sounds are no less good or useful than the cranked master plexi tones, they're just not "that sound."

The golden mean often applies!

I don't find it particularly inspiring for really choking the amp down to the lowest volumes, but that's no criticism of the Ironman - I just believe there are certain volumes that a tube amp doesn't shine, no matter what.

I have yet to try an attenuator that doesn’t choke the tone a bit at the extreme settings.

 

[El Fenix]

Now that I own one, I don't think of the HDRX as being a Marshall or anything other than a great new British flavoured amp from PRS.

It's PRS marketing concept to stress the Hendrix/Marshall connection, and that's what made me buy it.

Now that I own one, I find that it inspires me to play the Jeff Beck and Hendrix inspired music a Marshall does so well, but the HDRX 20 doesn't really sound like any Marshall I've owned.

I don't hear the glassy Marshall "Crunch" on top of the Marshall overdrive sound, or the "Ka-Rang" when I play power chords. It's warmer.

The HDRX 20 has its own British flavoured thing, and it's definitely voiced for ROCK. and BRITISH BLUES...not Fender Deluxe Reverb style clean.

I have the tone controls pretty well figured out but each time i plug in I tweak the three volume controls to taste and according to how loud i want to play.

The master doesn't sound good set low with the preamp volume cranked to force some overdrive out of this amp.

But goose the front end with a Klon and a great reverb pedal or delay and it's a whole different story! The amp comes to life and all the tones I like are there.

For me, the master volume is usually about 1/3 to 1/2 up at home. Any higher is too loud.

Then I adjust the two preamp volumes, one for treble and the other for bass until i get a nice full cleanish bluesy rock tone.

Then let my pedalboard take over and provide the overdrive, reverb and delay.

I've come to the same conclusion after a few weekends A/B it with my Marshall 6100 on the orange channel.
Seems like HDRX is a lot darker overall, has more gain, doesn't clean up as well on the edge of overdrive, and the tone controls do a lot more.

 

[Lewguitar]

My deluxe sounds pretty big cranked! my HRDX is running through a 212 greenbacks

I'm a Celestion guy and have used them since the 60's.

I have a G12H30 in my Deluxe Reverb and in the 112 Matchless cab I use with my HDRX 20.

I also have a set of 60's G12 Alnico Silver 12's in a 212 Matchless cab the size of an AC30.

Don't have any Greenbacks at present, but I love that crunch a Greenback gets.

The Greenback is a less efficient speaker than the G12H30 and requires more power to reach the same volume as the G12H30.

This makes the power section of your amp work a little harder, and that's usually a good thing for an overdriven rock tone.

The magnet is smaller on the Greenbacks, and they only handle 25 watts each, but they get more of that Marshall crunch than the G12 Alnicos and G12H30's I use.

Classic rock speakers!