My humble opinion - a couple of Core to SE comparisons

[andy474x]

We've had a few visitors to the forum recently wondering how the SE models measure up to the core line - which is a common question and I think we all know why. Well, I tried out a few amps, SE and core, with an SC58 today, so I thought I would throw my 2 cents in. In all honesty, I don't play core models too often, so this was a good chance for me to pick out some differences.

First the guitars - I had just come from playing my SE Akesson at home, so it was fresh in my mind when I got my hands on the SC58. In feel and playability, they were nearly identical. I know I'm going to get flack for saying it, but it's what I felt. That being said, the Akesson is the best SE I've ever played. In comparison to most other SE's, the 58 did play slightly better. It felt more precise. The rosewood board felt smoother than most SE boards, I'm sure it's a better piece of wood to start with, followed by a more detailed production process that ups the ante even more. The Akesson has an ebony board, so it has an advantage in the fretboard department. I liked the stock 10's on the 58 more than the 9's on SE's, but strings are strings and can be changed. As far as neck shape and comfort, no difference between the 58 and any comparable SE I've tried.

Tonally, the 58 was a touch brighter and snappier than I've noticed on the Akesson, which tends to be more beefy and thick sounding. Both are fantastic on the bridge pickup, I can't say one is better or worse, just different. On the neck pickup, the 58 separated itself from my Akesson, and even more from other SE's. More defined, not as bass heavy (basically not a hint of "mud") and very, very sweet and woody sounding. Vintage neck pickup tone nirvana. Also, the tone stayed more pure with the use of the volume pots, on SE's decreases on the volume pot also cut a lot of highs but the 58 stayed crisp. Obviously, the 58 has a step up on stock SE's in the pickup department. The 245's are the best SE pickups I've tried, and I would never have a qualm with using them, but the 57/08's are just in a class of their own. Even compared to other aftermarket pickups, they just win. They're clear as a bell and each string/note stays incredibly defined.

Now for the amps - I tried an SE50 and a Sweet 16 head to head through the same 2x12 cab (pun intended). Granted, this isn't as fair of a comparison because they're very different concepts, but the results were interesting. The Sweet 16's clean tones just weren't my bag, and I was very surprised at that. They seemed to go from slightly dull and uninspiring, to overly bright, without much middle ground. I also couldn't get as much in the mids department as I was hoping for. Adding some gain improved the performance a bit. The breakup was smooth and not nearly as aggressive sounding as the SE50. At max, it turned into a cool fuzz tone that would be useful in some scenarios, but if I were looking for a one channel amp that did clean to mean, it wouldn't be my first choice. The SE50 was outclassed in the mild overdrive department, but the cleans were more shimmery, and defined in both lows and highs, and the drive sounds had more bark and cut overall. I was really surprised that I didn't like the 16 more - it was on clearance for an absolute STEAL (literally couldn't believe the price), but my drummer buddy and I both agreed that the 50 sounded much better than the 16 for my playing style. I was ready to fork over cash for the 16 it on the spot, but it just wasn't meant to be.

So what's my verdict? As far as amps, I'm not going to say Marlyand made amps aren't worth it, because those were two very different amp concepts. The 16 just wasn't my thing. What I do think it shows is that there was something to the SE amp line. If they never come back, I'd be bummed, because they had potential.

For guitars, I can honestly say there are situations where I would pick my SE Akesson over the 58, and if I had to pick only one... it wouldn't be an easy choice. A good score on a set of pickups for my SE made it a serious contender for less than a grand, and I don't think that was luck. The SE's are the fundamental principles of PRS guitars at work, they have the pedigree and the performance. So why aren't SE's just cheap imitations, and what makes core guitars any better? It's because on the core guitars, they take those same fundamentals and squeeze every last little bit out of them!

Well, there you have it. My ramblings are complete.

 

[CantankerousCarl]

Andy - there has certainly been ALOT of questions about the SEs lately, appreciate your poll and the thoughts above.

+1 on the Akesson - I was going to flip it because I got such a steal on it, but here I am less than 24 hours later and I've installed a forum TRC on her and ordered her a set of Grover 406Cs I forgot how good the SEs are.

I had something like 8 SEs simultaneously at one point in early 2013...my collection had burgeoned. I purged every single last one of them to help pay for the 408 Brazzy, and, no regrets, that was a sick deal for GC's 49th, and it's a truly outstanding guitar.

I didn't realize until this new (old) SE that I actually MISSED my SEs, in their own right. They are great guitars period, and unbeatable at their price point. What I think you point out in the SE vs Core guitar is what I think of the "degree of subtlety / complexity" as you move on up from SE to S2 to Core. SEs out of the bag sound better than every other I have played off the rack. As you move up (and these are generalizations of course based upon my ownership experience) the sustain gets a bit longer, the quality of the held notes is more complex, the guitars behave more interestingly with gain, the tuning stability is better, the guitar vibrates more in your lap, etc. The cosmetic differences are more obvious, but I focused on the sound first.

I do think that in these comparisons, I am saddened by the fact that more people are skipping over the S2s. My S2 Mira is one of my favorite PRSes, and I paid under a grand for it new. It's the loudest unplugged solidbody guitar I have, feels every bit as good as a Core to play, sounds amazing with tons of character, and stays in tune like a champ. I hope people don't forget about them.

Amp-wise, I never warmed up to the SEs based upon very limited in-store playtime, and haven't been fortunate enough to actually be in the same room with one to play one.

 

[GeoDude]

"I am saddened by the fact that more people are skipping over the S2s. My S2 Mira is one of my favorite PRSes, and I paid under a grand for it new. It's the loudest unplugged solidbody guitar I have, feels every bit as good as a Core to play, sounds amazing with tons of character, and stays in tune like a champ. I hope people don't forget about them."

I am fresh off of buying my first PRS, and over the months leading up to the purchase, I played just about every guitar I could get my hands on, from SEs to S2s to core models I couldn't really afford. Of those, an S2 Starla sticks in my mind as having been a standout, as does an SE CU24. The Bigsby on the Starla was a little too retro for me, and the desire to buy American ultimately ruled out the SE CU24 (but I was very close to buying it anyway). Having said that, I also played an S2 CU24 and two SE Santanas, and they all disappointed, while almost none of the core models failed to please (alright, there was a McCarty Standard that just didn't seem to play well, but it had been hanging on the wall for four years!). The point being, I think there is a consistency to the core line that may not be available with the others; but on any given day, you might find a gem amongst the SEs and S2s and pocket the savings.

 

[László]

I enjoyed reading your take on it, Andy!

I don't have too much personal experience with the SEs, and I have none with the S2s; the guitar stores near me just haven't had very many of either, and I've never even seen an S2 in person. The Detroit area isn't exactly some tiny village (yet), so it's weird that I haven't seen one.

The SEs I was lucky enough to play were stellar. I think they have a different vibe than the Core models in certain ways, but they are an absolute steal considering what you get. At least that's how I felt about them.

I've always owned the Core models, as I don't need a lot of guitars. I usually only have two or three - but I try to find the best ones I can for my work.

IMHO, to truly appreciate an instrument's capabilities, you have to spend more time with it than you can in a store, because a great instrument is about subtleties. Whether that's an SE or a Core model.

 

[andy474x]

Thanks guys. Carl, I too hope the S2's get some more hype - I didn't play one the other day, so it wasn't really part of my rant, but I have played the original 3, and they definitely have it going on. The Mira for sure, and the Starla really surprised me when I tried it. I'm also really looking forward to trying the Singlecut and the Custom 22, although I do wish there was a stoptail option on the Custom 22!!! The thing that I hope people realize is how much of a deal they are - if someone were to take an SE, upgrade it to S2 specs (pickups, electronics, tuners, bridge, nut, USA frets which are much harder and more durable) S2's are a STEAL, not to mention the fact that they have other qualities that you just can't add aftermarket, like better woods with the drying process and the full thickness maple tops. I really want to get the S2 Mira at some point, but that new Singlecut might put up a good fight. I could see S2's being great gigging guitars, they have all the right ingredients, but you don't have to worry about dinging the 10-top on your $3-4K core model.

Les, I can definitely understand why you stick to your core models - obviously you need the good stuff for your line of work. And while I did pick up on a few things during my brief in-store demo, I'm sure there's a lot more to learn.

So you wanna lend me that new Singlecut of yours, in the name of education? If not, I understand... your Artist V will work fine too