My band rejected my request to move from acoustic to electric guitar

Not to hijack the thread from its intended purpose, but I have a question for those who serve in church.

Do any of your churches have someone who acts as a full fledged musical director? Someone who's purpose is to listen and to help the band as a whole or who helps the individual players when things are not quite right? Or is there a worship leader who also plays and makes suggestions if things are lacking?

I've been wondering this for a long time. No one at our church "cracks the whip" so to say and for the most part its good. Every one is expected to know thier parts and even if things aren't quite there (as long as its not sloppy) the approach is a failry casual one. It seems to work but there are occasions where it sure would be nice if someone said "lets record that and listen back because it could be better."
Most churches have a musical director or worship leader who is a pastor. A band without a leader who delegates, just like any team, can never be very good......problem is a lot of them are all about self ego and congregational clicks and not about doing what theyre supposed to.... worshiping God. Maybe you should step up and take the reigns, sounds like someone needs to.
 
Most churches have a musical director or worship leader who is a pastor. A band without a leader who delegates, just like any team, can never be very good......problem is a lot of them are all about self ego and congregational clicks and not about doing what theyre supposed to.... worshiping God. Maybe you should step up and take the reigns, sounds like someone needs to.
There have been times where I have stepped forward with suggestions and while there's never been a problem with that, it's hard for me to do. I tend to look at my own musical faults and flaws before I start pointing things out to others. Like the old song says "before you accuse me, take a look at yourself."

What brought this about was my listening to the rehearsal recording of one of the songs we're doing this Sunday. It's not that anybody was playing anything bad because they were'nt. But as a whole it was very.......lackluster. Kinda stayed along the same plane even when the dynamics picked up a bit.
 
Not to hijack the thread from its intended purpose, but I have a question for those who serve in church.

Do any of your churches have someone who acts as a full fledged musical director? Someone who's purpose is to listen and to help the band as a whole or who helps the individual players when things are not quite right? Or is there a worship leader who also plays and makes suggestions if things are lacking?

I've been wondering this for a long time. No one at our church "cracks the whip" so to say and for the most part its good. Every one is expected to know thier parts and even if things aren't quite there (as long as its not sloppy) the approach is a failry casual one. It seems to work but there are occasions where it sure would be nice if someone said "lets record that and listen back because it could be better."
Yes ... I am the music director for our Sunday worship. I'm on keys, running MainStage and MultiTracks / or clicks.
I have a mic for the vocalists / musicians to hear.
I don't over direct as much as Ive heard others on IG.
I remind the band about dynamics, major chord / root changes and we use the Nashville number system.
Especially if we free flow on a chorus, I encourage the WL to do so. The sound booth hears my cues, and will act accordingly if needed.
Being the MD, has helped tighten up our sound. But ... we are not glued to me: sometimes the worship leader will go a different way ( musically) than I suggest. Then its my job to tell the rest of the band what's going on.
I lead our Tuesday Night Recovery service, and have other worship leaders MD and run tracks.
Its good to spread the responsibility around.
 
I was called "unprofessional" for asking where's the acoustic guitar sound in a group chat. Everybody was silent and it was pretty odd that no one said anything. I guess a lot of people quit because of folks whose egos are at a max level. They always start off with I am a paid professional and I have accomplished x,y, and z but I could never verify what they said. I have a habit of calling out stuff when they're just wrong. I'm a pk so maybe that's why I dont revere or fear church leadership.

An update to all this is that I guess a lot of people said something to the SE and I saw a clear change today. Maybe he had heard enough and his ego was hurt. That wasnt my intention but not sure why he was so stubborn. As it stands now, I'm being treated fairly but it's amusing how much of a mental drain this was.
 
I was called "unprofessional" for asking where's the acoustic guitar sound in a group chat. Everybody was silent and it was pretty odd that no one said anything. I guess a lot of people quit because of folks whose egos are at a max level. They always start off with I am a paid professional and I have accomplished x,y, and z but I could never verify what they said. I have a habit of calling out stuff when they're just wrong. I'm a pk so maybe that's why I dont revere or fear church leadership.

An update to all this is that I guess a lot of people said something to the SE and I saw a clear change today. Maybe he had heard enough and his ego was hurt. That wasnt my intention but not sure why he was so stubborn. As it stands now, I'm being treated fairly but it's amusing how much of a mental drain this was.
Yeah, church drama at its best. If you are a PK, that you have seen a lot of the "junk" that happens.
Full disclosure; I am an ordained pastor of worship / seniors at my current church. But I am not the main worship pastor ( we have four of us) and I am part time. At my age, 67, I am still learning new things about worship, music and leadership. But some things should never change: treating all team members with respect. And being honest about a person's gifting and abilities, and having a growth track to help them improve. Sound techs can be hard to deal with, especially those who are not musicians.
 
Boy, oh boy, oh boy! I have a lot I could add here….

A mega church involves a lot of politics and money. From what you've said, it sounds like they were all working towards a few of things:

Limiting your involvement, because they don't believe your skills are up to the task. They need to provide a high-quality product to a large congregation. That congregation has certain perceived expectations which have to be met.

By muting you, they limit the "damage" you can do to the product they're providing. They also allow you to participate in a harmless way. They're thinking they can satisfy your need to be involved and their need to have high-quality music, without hurting your feelings.

They're giving you some pretty strong hints that they don't want you involved, but you're not taking them. Making you audition four hours away, with one song? Muting you? None of that says, "we want more from you!" It says, "please go away."

You shouldn't be angry with the sound guy. It's very likely he's doing what he was told to do.
This comes off a bit harsh, IMO. while reading this, the first thing I’m wondering is how good of a player Dan is. Please don’t let this sound bad. I’m ALL about encouraging players here. Seriously! But, I’m also a long time sound engineer at a large, but not mega church. We run about 1000 and have a full orchestra and I run a large sound system multiple times a week.
Maybe I need to take a hint.
You said a couple things I found VERY alarming. Several were hard to believe… 4 hours for a 1 song audition? Surely you don’t go to church 2 hours away, right? So why would you go that far away for any audition? In fact, why would any audition not be done at the church? There’s no excuse for this. Unless you drive a MUCH longer than normal distance to this church, this 2 hours away audition is not even remotely acceptable.

But while I’m trying to tread lightly here, a lot of this comes down to how solid you are as a player. I have had to mute people before but ONLY when there is some problem with what they are playing. Other than that, there is NO excuse to mute someone that you let on the stage. My job IS however to make what comes out as good as possible. One time a few weeks ago, the bass player I play with regularly, played a WHOLE SONG 1/2 step flat on the bass! it was a congregational, so full orchestra and everyone singing but as soon as the song started I said “what the heck is Dave doing” and quickly muted him, solo’d him out in my headphones and verified that he was playing it all in the wrong key. I checked back on verse 2 and 3 and he was off the whole time. LOL. Next song started and I immediately solo’s him in my headphones, he was on, and immediately unmuted.

Other times, a quartet would be signing a special and someone had a cold and was struggling… they’d get turned DOWN, not muted, to where their crackling pitchy voice was not standing out and ruining the song. Just stuff like that. To mute someone ”just because” is NOT acceptable.
This "business" music is a product of paid musicians who aren't believers and are just there to do a job.
Don’t get me started. This is COMPLETELY wrong and will NOT be blessed by the Lord. I know it goes on in these big money churches. I know guys who aren’t Christians and play in bars on Saturday night and church Sunday morning. Sorry, no offense, it’s WRONG and the root of many problems, as the whole reason for and purpose of the music is not even why they are there.The churches that do this are asking for trouble and are more “businesses” than churches. Again, sorry if that offends anyone but it’s true.

“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”​

― Mahatma Gandhi
That’s cute and all, but given that these musicians we’re talking about are mostly not Christians, doesn’t apply. And yes, I know there are plenty of misguided people who go to church. And tell your boy Gandhi you find find bad apples in every bag, and if he was really what he said he is, he’d never say something like that which focused only on the bad ones. ;) I always got a kick out of that one… Gandhi in his “holier than thou”mode. Nice! LOL.
 
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Not to hijack the thread from its intended purpose, but I have a question for those who serve in church.

Do any of your churches have someone who acts as a full fledged musical director? Someone who's purpose is to listen and to help the band as a whole or who helps the individual players when things are not quite right? Or is there a worship leader who also plays and makes suggestions if things are lacking?

I've been wondering this for a long time. No one at our church "cracks the whip" so to say and for the most part its good. Every one is expected to know thier parts and even if things aren't quite there (as long as its not sloppy) the approach is a failry casual one. It seems to work but there are occasions where it sure would be nice if someone said "lets record that and listen back because it could be better."
Yes! Every church I’ve ever been in, too or heard of, has a music director. Someone who is in charge of the music. I can’t fathom ANY group of singers and musicians functioning without some leader. Are you saying someone just picks songs, send the music and says “see you Sunday?” Even with untrained people in the membership, I’ve never heard of a church that didn’t at least have a music leader who picked songs, lead practices, etc.
 
One more thing (yes, you got me started! LOL). An acoustic guitar can be mixed in to complement ALMOST any kind of music, as long as it is being played in a manner that is complimentary to the music. This includes anything up to hard rock and metal. Him saying he prefers the sound of some big name artist that doesn’t use acoustic is full on BOGUS as a nice acoustic can add to almost anything as long as it’s played correctly and this includes even if it’s just basic chord playing.

Now, if stylistically you are clashing with the style of music, then that is a “playing issue” not an instrument issue. I mean if this is pop/rock styled music and you’re strumming patterns are more Bob Marley, then yeah, I might bury you in the mix… but just muting it because he doesn’t want it is not acceptable. IF that is not what he wants, then you shouldn’t be up there!

I also find the leadership to be lacking if they are mixing “non-Christian paid band members” with “unpaid members of the congregation.” You can’t have an “anyone can play who wants too” mindset and have paid professionals both. And maybe that’s the problem… maybe they want to let anyone serve who wants too, but feels that if they are paying these guys, they aren‘t going to let the “members” interfere with the guys they’re paying. And again, this problem is created by bringing in the non-believers in the first place. This is a position of worship leadership. Anyone who lets non-believers lead their worship is more worried about appearances than worshipping God. And, I won’t apologize for this opinion as it’s Biblical! I’ve had offers from churches to come be a paid player for their worship team, and they didn’t ask what I believed, what religion I was or even if I WAS a believer! They heard me play, and offered me a job. THEN they asked me if I went to church! After they told me how much they’d pay me just to play 3 services a week. Unbelievable.

At this point, I better stop for now. But you need to find a new church….
 
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That’s cute and all, but given that these musicians we’re talking about are mostly not Christians, doesn’t apply. And yes, I know there are plenty of misguided people who go to church. And tell your boy Gandhi you find find bad apples in every bag, and if he was really what he said he is, he’d never say something like that which focused only on the bad ones. ;) I always got a kick out of that one… Gandhi in his “holier than thou”mode. Nice! LOL.
Wait a sec, doesnt apply? What? lol..... so you say that people who play at church arent Christians? ...if they arent they shouldnt be in Church praising God in the first place. Oh and FWIW, Gandhi aint "my boy", first of all I dont speak ebonics and secondly if I did that would be Jesus TYVM. :)
 
Wait a sec, doesnt apply? What? lol..... so you say that people who play at church arent Christians? ...if they arent they shouldnt be in Church praising God in the first place. Oh and FWIW, Gandhi aint "my boy", first of all I dont speak ebonics and secondly if I did that would be Jesus TYVM. :)
He said these guys were not Christians, and that his church paid them to be in the band.
YES, I did say that non- believers SHOULD NOT BE LEADING WORSHIP!

And sorry if you didn’t like my joke about Gandhi. You quoted him. I’ve heard that quote before and thought “Gee, for a guy who’s supposed to be all about peace and love of all other beings, he seems to be taking a holier than though route by noting that some people who call themselves Christians really aren’t very Christian. I’m sure we can find some Gandhians who don’t llive up to his ideals either, since, you know, we are all human. If he really said that, it’s worth mocking a bit IMO. I actually never believed he’d really say it, but I never cared enough to research it.

And, I don’t know what TYVM is.
 
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Did you read the thread? He said these guys were not Christians, and that his church paid them to be in the band. So, once you’re caught up there, YES, I did say that non- believers SHOULD NOT BE LEADING WORSHIP!

And sorry if you didn’t like my joke about Gandhi. You quoted him. I’ve heard that quote before and thought “Gee, for a guy who’s supposed to be all about peace and love of all other beings, he seems to be taking a holier than though route by noting that some people who call themselves Christians really aren’t very Christian. I’m sure we can find some Gandhians who don’t llive up to his ideals either, since, you know, we are all human. If he really said that, it’s worth mocking a bit IMO. I actually never believed he’d really say it, but I never cared enough to research it.

And, I don’t know what TYVM is. Ebonics?
TYVM = Thank you very much.
That reply fits perfectly with your old posts on rap music.
 
Yeah, this is a slippery slope topic with regards to the rules. I'd say: lets not discuss religious views, that mucks things up
 
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