multi-effect processor or computer plug in?

[Roudan]

Hi

I am wondering if I buy multi-effect processor or computer plug-in? For example, Neural DSP cortex/Hotone Ampero 2 Stage vs. Neural DSP Plug-ins?

Using computer plug-in like Neural DSP Plug-ins, I need to spend $400 to buy a audio interface and $150-200 for plug-in itself. I am thinking I can keep upgrading plugs-in in the future while multi-effect processor could be outdated in few years. Am I correct?

For either case, I still need to purchase a good pair of monitor speakers.

which option is recommended based on your experience? multi-effect processor hardward or computer plug-in?

Thanks

 

[alantig]

Hi

I am wondering if I buy multi-effect processor or computer plug-in? For example, Neural DSP cortex/Hotone Ampero 2 Stage vs. Neural DSP Plug-ins?

Using computer plug-in like Neural DSP Plug-ins, I need to spend $400 to buy a audio interface and $150-200 for plug-in itself. I am thinking I can keep upgrading plugs-in in the future while multi-effect processor could be outdated in few years. Am I correct?

For either case, I still need to purchase a good pair of monitor speakers.

which option is recommended based on your experience? multi-effect processor hardward or computer plug-in?

Thanks

I've kind of done both. I have a G-System (supplemented with pedals) that is definitely outdated (even the librarian thing won't run on my current Mac). I also have quite a few plug-ins.

You're correct that the plug-ins can (but won't necessarily) be updated over time. And yes, the multi-effects units will eventually be replaced by newer models. But...they don't instantly start to sound bad. You may or may not have need for the newer functionality.

Ultimately not very helpful, I know.

 

[Prina]

Quick answer: If you're playing live through the rig, as opposed to just re-amping, you'll probably want the hardware processor because of the round trip latency may create too much of a delay, as well as portability if you play in multiple places.

Like @alantig and with with many other folks, there are lots of options which sound good and it depends on what tradeoffs you want to make in $, convenience, reliability, learning curve. It's a big rabbit hole to go into.

And really good monitors/FRFR make a BIG difference for either.

 

[Roudan]

I've kind of done both. I have a G-System (supplemented with pedals) that is definitely outdated (even the librarian thing won't run on my current Mac). I also have quite a few plug-ins.

You're correct that the plug-ins can (but won't necessarily) be updated over time. And yes, the multi-effects units will eventually be replaced by newer models. But...they don't instantly start to sound bad. You may or may not have need for the newer functionality.

Ultimately not very helpful, I know.

Quick answer: If you're playing live through the rig, as opposed to just re-amping, you'll probably want the hardware processor because of the round trip latency may be too much of a delay, as well as portability if you play in multiple places.

Like @alantig and with with many other folks, there are lots of options which sound good and it depends on what tradeoffs you want to make in $, convenience, reliability, learning curve. It's a big rabbit hole to go into.

And really good monitors/FRFR make a BIG difference for either.

Thanks. I don't play live, I am just a home playing learner. I am having Marshall DSL1 with few TC pedals for many years. I'd like to try out some different tones. Thanks for your suggestions.

 

[dmatthews]

Personally I like hardware > software, just because you don't need to boot up a computer to play/listen.

 

[Bogner]

Just Get A Kemper And Be Done With It. By The Time You Piece Everything Together It Will Likely Cost More Money And The More Variables You Have To Mess With The More Problems You Could Potentially Have. All Of These "Convenient Solutions" Are Great Until You Switch Horses Mid Stream And Then You May Discover Little Gremlins You Never Expected. As Far As Something Just "Sounding Good" The Options Available Today Are Numerous. Take Your Time And Really Educate Yourself On All The Pieces Of Your Potential Puzzle So You Can Get It Right The First Time. If I Can Help In Any Specific Way, I Would Be Happy To Help. Good Luck!

 

[Roudan]

Just Get A Kemper And Be Done With It. By The Time You Piece Everything Together It Will Likely Cost More Money And The More Variables You Have To Mess With The More Problems You Could Potentially Have. All Of These "Convenient Solutions" Are Great Until You Switch Horses Mid Stream And Then You May Discover Little Gremlins You Never Expected. As Far As Something Just "Sounding Good" The Options Available Today Are Numerous. Take Your Time And Really Educate Yourself On All The Pieces Of Your Potential Puzzle So You Can Get It Right The First Time. If I Can Help In Any Specific Way, I Would Be Happy To Help. Good Luck!

Thanks Bonger. Which kemper do you recommend? And May I ask why? There are many processors out there. Not sure which one to buy? Thanks a lot

 

[JasonE]

Thanks Bonger. Which kemper do you recommend? And May I ask why? There are many processors out there. Not sure which one to buy? Thanks a lot

They are all pretty much the same, except the new player. The Kemper Stage has the most updated hardware. I went with the Stage when I bought mine because I liked the idea of an all in one unit instead of getting the rack or toaster and having a foot controller for it. The new Kemper Profilter Player doesn't have all of the capabilities of the toaster, rack and stage.

 

[Bogner]

Thanks Bonger. Which kemper do you recommend? And May I ask why? There are many processors out there. Not sure which one to buy? Thanks a lot

I Have Both A Toaster And Rack...Each With Foot Controller Which I Would Say Having Is A Must If You Go That Path. The Kemper Stage Is Not Powered And I Don't Know If That Is Something That Can Be Powered With What You Already Have? If So, Those Are Nice Units. I Suggested The Kemper Because Of Its Capabilities, Free Updates, Support, Etc. It Is A Nice Way To Go. If You Do Have A Way To Power It Then The Stage Is Nice.

 

[JasonE]

I Have Both A Toaster And Rack...Each With Foot Controller Which I Would Say Having Is A Must If You Go That Path. The Kemper Stage Is Not Powered And I Don't Know If That Is Something That Can Be Powered With What You Already Have? If So, Those Are Nice Units. I Suggested The Kemper Because Of Its Capabilities, Free Updates, Support, Etc. It Is A Nice Way To Go. If You Do Have A Way To Power It Then The Stage Is Nice.

I have a Fryette PS-100 that I use if I want to power mine and run it into a speaker cabinet. I usually just run out into a powered PA cabinet.

 

[Bogner]

I Am Not Meaning To Split Hairs Here Or Cause Any Type Of Confusion In Any Way, However, I Do Need To Bring Up The Point That Going With A Non Powered Kemper And Using Something Else (Anything That Can Power Any Of The Kemper Units) Will Potentially Color The Sound. This Is Something That I Don't Think Everybody Is Mindful Of (Or As Mindful As They Could/Should Be). The Kemper Philosophy Is Everything Being Neutral So That The Sonic Color Is Coming From The Chosen Profile. For This Reason, This Is Why I Prefer The Powered Kemper. I Have Two Powered Toaster Units And An Unpowered Rack Unit That I Use With A Fryette LX-II Power Amp. I Have Tried It With Amps, And The Fryette PS-2 And Others And It Is Nice As Well But I Prefer The Fryette LXII Of All That I Have Tried As An External Power Source (Amp). I Think I Still Prefer The Powered Kemper The Most. The Differences Are Minimal But It Does Warrant Mentioning (Being Fully Transparent).

I Don't Want To Make It Sound Like This Is A Kemper Fault As It Is Not. Every "Pre-Amp" Type Situation Made Today Will Be Colored By The Power Source. That Can Be A Very Good Thing...We All Like What We Like And It Varies From Person To Person. All I Bring Up Are Minimal Nuances And Any Solution A Person Uses Will Sound Good. Some Just Slightly Better Than Others. It Is The Things Like This That I Was Referring To Initially About Not Switching Horses In The Middle Of The Stream Because What May Work Incredibly Well In One Application May Not Yield The Same Result In A Different Application. My Heart In Sharing All Of This Is For The Prospective Purchaser To Buy Right The First Time And Not Have Any Surprises Down The Road.

 

[dmatthews]

Seymour Duncan power amps use the same power module as the Kemper Head and Rack. They are all using ICEpower.

Homepage - ICEpower

icepoweraudio.com

 

[JasonE]

I Am Not Meaning To Split Hairs Here Or Cause Any Type Of Confusion In Any Way, However, I Do Need To Bring Up The Point That Going With A Non Powered Kemper And Using Something Else (Anything That Can Power Any Of The Kemper Units) Will Potentially Color The Sound. This Is Something That I Don't Think Everybody Is Mindful Of (Or As Mindful As They Could/Should Be). The Kemper Philosophy Is Everything Being Neutral So That The Sonic Color Is Coming From The Chosen Profile. For This Reason, This Is Why I Prefer The Powered Kemper. I Have Two Powered Toaster Units And An Unpowered Rack Unit That I Use With A Fryette LX-II Power Amp. I Have Tried It With Amps, And The Fryette PS-2 And Others And It Is Nice As Well But I Prefer The Fryette LXII Of All That I Have Tried As An External Power Source (Amp). I Think I Still Prefer The Powered Kemper The Most. The Differences Are Minimal But It Does Warrant Mentioning (Being Fully Transparent).

I Don't Want To Make It Sound Like This Is A Kemper Fault As It Is Not. Every "Pre-Amp" Type Situation Made Today Will Be Colored By The Power Source. That Can Be A Very Good Thing...We All Like What We Like And It Varies From Person To Person. All I Bring Up Are Minimal Nuances And Any Solution A Person Uses Will Sound Good. Some Just Slightly Better Than Others. It Is The Things Like This That I Was Referring To Initially About Not Switching Horses In The Middle Of The Stream Because What May Work Incredibly Well In One Application May Not Yield The Same Result In A Different Application. My Heart In Sharing All Of This Is For The Prospective Purchaser To Buy Right The First Time And Not Have Any Surprises Down The Road.

Add to this equation the difference in speakers and cabinets at the other end of that power source and things can change quite a bit. This is no different than using a tube amp head with a speaker cabinet. The speaker(s) and cabinet are going to color the sound more than any other part.

 

[Bogner]

Add to this equation the difference in speakers and cabinets at the other end of that power source and things can change quite a bit. This is no different than using a tube amp head with a speaker cabinet. The speaker(s) and cabinet are going to color the sound more than any other part.

I Didn't Want To Bury The OP In Multiple Thoughts And Scenarios So I Left That Rabbit Hole Alone...LOL. In My Experience, I Have Found The Speakers And Cabs To Be More Impacting On The Kemper When It Comes To Coloring The Profile. That Isn't To Say That Cabs And Speakers Aren't Impacting In Heads As They Very Much Are...Incredibly So I Will Say. I Have Found With The Kemper, The Less Color The Better All Around And Keeping Things As Neutral As Possible Works Best For Me. That Way I Am Getting The Best Out Of The Profile I Choose To Use.

 

[JasonE]

I Didn't Want To Bury The OP In Multiple Thoughts And Scenarios So I Left That Rabbit Hole Alone...LOL. In My Experience, I Have Found The Speakers And Cabs To Be More Impacting On The Kemper When It Comes To Coloring The Profile. That Isn't To Say That Cabs And Speakers Aren't Impacting In Heads As They Very Much Are...Incredibly So I Will Say. I Have Found With The Kemper, The Less Color The Better All Around And Keeping Things As Neutral As Possible Works Best For Me. That Way I Am Getting The Best Out Of The Profile I Choose To Use.

I didn't want to go down the rabbit hole too far. I just wanted to mention that there are things that can drastically alter the sound depending on how you use the unit. I typically go into an FRFR PA cabinet or into my DAW using SPDIF. These two methods give you the purest sound of what the Kemper is putting out. As soon as you introduce a guitar cabinet and speaker the sound will change a lot. That is all I was trying to say. Hopefully that doesn't confuse the OP too much. By the way, this scenario is the same no matter what modeler or digital device you are using. It is part of the digital device world.

 

[TheCraftsman]

I use my ME90 as both a processor and an audio interface and have a few Neural plugins also, I’m mostly always playing the through Logic and find sometimes I clean on the neural plugins sometimes I’ll dial in what I want on the me90 or I’ll mix them both.

 

[László]

If you've never done computer-based playing, be prepared for a steep learning curve and a lot of headaches. I say this as a professional musician and studio owner who's been making computer based music since 1987. That can be fun, or not, depending on what you like to do with your time and money.

Hardware is less of a headache; one manufacturer makes the whole thing - hardware, software, circuits, etc. And setting up to play is a lot faster than booting up a computer, setting up the DAW and the plugins, and so on.

The nice thing about hardware, as Alan points out, is that if they come out with a newer hardware gizmo, the old one still works, and if it sounded good enough to buy in the first place, it certainly isn't going to suddenly sound worse merely because they came out with a new model.

Just my two cents, but the best sound doesn't come from multi effects processors that model amps or software. It comes from tube amps and analog effects with the added benefit that they never really go obsolete, and never need software updates.

If that doesn't work for you, and it's between digital hardware and digital software, pick your poison. I tend to agree with Bogner, if your pick is digital get a Kemper or Axe FX or similar, plug it in and start using it right away without the headaches of setting up a bunch of marginally compatible computer gear.

Neither choice is perfect, neither is terrible, and you'll wind up parting with pretty much the same amount of coin either way. So there's no right answer, and no wrong answer because we all see the world a little differently from one another.

 

[WingerRules]

If you've never done computer-based playing, be prepared for a steep learning curve and a lot of headaches. I say this as a professional musician and studio owner who's been making computer based music since 1987. That can be fun, or not, depending on what you like to do with your time and money.

Exactly! I got so discouraged, between the "never sounds like it did through my rig" to software updates that aren't compatible with your computer to software/hardware conflicts, to ENDLESS auditioning of TONS of plugins... I finally gave up when a windows update rendered my recording software useless without an upgrade.

I wanted to play guitar, to record what I played, and with SOME effort, have a nice sounding recording. Even from a semi-pro sound man, who is pretty tech savvy, the endless cycle of all the computer stuff to get something recorded was more than I wanted to deal with. Not to mention, two completely finished complete songs, all parts, recorded/mixed/mastered and ready, lost in a hard drive crash with only fragments of it backed up to the backup drive. Yeah, that was the last straw. Since then, I've only done a few quick direct in recording things in the last 10 years.

I was fascinated by this stuff until I went to far to fast. Then I was swimming in options and plugins and... well, it became like the amp and pedal building. I LOVED it... but eventually realized I was spending WAY more time doing it than actually playing guitar.

p.s. And this is largely why I have also avoided going "high end" on the digital device side of guitar as well. Endless options, constant tone seeking, and "tweaking more than playing" is THE ONLY reason I haven't bought an Axe or Kemper.

 

[TheCraftsman]

I love both sides of it, having the flexibility and ability to have plugins help model sounds and ideas as well as having a physical board I can stomp on. I’ll admit I also love the “production” side of music so recording, multi tracking, hell using moises to rip a track and take the guitars out lets me jam with my favourite bands. There’s no right or wrong answer it’s just what suits you for what you want to get out of them. Sure I’d love a tube amp I can really let sing but I live in an apartment and it’d get no voice, modellers get me closer than I could physically in that situation.

Edit: I know this wasn’t about amps


Is software as good as hardware? Probably not, but most people wouldn’t notice the difference so it’s down to you.

 

[László]

p.s. And this is largely why I have also avoided going "high end" on the digital device side of guitar as well. Endless options, constant tone seeking, and "tweaking more than playing" is THE ONLY reason I haven't bought an Axe or Kemper.

For me, that's a big part of the equation. I'd like to take it further.

My favorite recording artist is me. I admire lots of players, of course, but I don't have to make them happy.

On the other hand, I definitely have to make myself happy!

Because creating music is my bliss.

I often get asked, "How do you think up musical ideas out of thin air?"

My usual answer is, "I don't know, and I don't want to know. In order to create, it's necessary to not think about what I'm gonna do next, and to allow the unconscious mind to operate the machinery."

When the instrument sounds 'right' - to me - I can hand the operation over to that unconscious mind more easily. I don't have to think about how I sound. I'm confident it's good.

Anything that takes me away from working with and refining my own little handful of tones is an impediment to my creativity.

It's why I'm kinda slow about making changes to my pedals, or buying more amps/guitars. My board has been pretty much the same for 6 years. My amps are 10, 9, 8 and 5 years old. The only guitar I have that hasn't been here for least 8 years is my recently-acquired DGT.

I like having keepers, and I like getting to the point where playing them is second nature. That's why I don't have a guitar collection. I'm a musician, not a museum curator. I need to make music, not look at a pile o' stuff that in the end, does me no musical favors.

Helps me flush the conscious thought and engage the music. I also understand why lots of great songwriters and recording artists have go-to tones and consistent relationships with their instruments.

It's also why I'm incredibly picky about the orchestral and synth sounds I use, and mics, and preamps and every part of the musical production chain. If it sounds good, I can let go of my consciousness.

You know what? It took me a really long time to figure this out! I suppose it's never too late...

One last thing: This is an explanation of what works for me; it isn't a prescription for how anyone else should create or live their life. No one has to be like me or agree with this line of thought. I'm fine with that and respect other viewpoints.